how do you think the lack of /newstuff chronicles and a functioning review section has affected the community?

[roadworx]

if you didn't know cuz you're new here, the /newstuff chronicles used to regularly review new wads that had been published onto /idgames/ so everyone had a chance to get feedback on their stuff, and doomworld's idgames frontend used to have a functioning review system. it still kinda does, but starting in 2018 it desynced and now only pre-2018 wads are reviewable.

 

i thought it'd be interesting to see all the little ways that the community has adapted to these limitations. 

[LadyMistDragon]

In some ways, I think it makes the Cacowards and Top 100 WADS list the ever-more attractive options. But that's the most surface-level take and I know there's an audience out there who'll occasionally hit the Random link on /idgames and circle through until they get some single-player map or another.

Edited January 24, 2024 by LadyMistDragon

[Maribo]

I'm the person who initially suggested the reviews thread over in WAD Discussion and I think retrospectively it was a poor idea, because it's really not a good substitute for an actual catalog of proper pages corresponding to individual WADs themselves.

 

I dunno. I was never around for /newstuff so I won't pretend like I have any idea what it was like, but the lack of a functioning review page for new WADs is getting to be really painful. I have things that I would like to write about but not in a capacity where I want to make a Whole New Thread About The Thing in WAD Discussion, and making a habit of bumping too many old release threads to drop a review in them would be.... unfair to the actual new releases, which already don't last very long on the front page of WAD Releases as is.

 

I think it is getting harder to keep up with the New Cool Things You Might Like. It would be really nice to be leave reviews and be able to neatly look through them on this section of someone's profile as opposed to keeping a yearly spreadsheet, or a notepad txt document, or filtering through your entire post history, but obviously we can't do that with newer things. The Cacowards simply cannot cover everything, the output is too high.

[DNSKILL5]

It needs to come back even if it has to be implemented differently to combat the forum software’s tendency to shit the bed in ways that seem to be hard to clean up. 

Edited January 24, 2024 by DNSKILL5

[Li'l devil]

Oh yeah, the lack of option to write reviews for new wads is really bad. And why did they still not fix that desync, after over 5 years? Pure negligence. I suggest protesting and rioting.

[Murdoch]

9 minutes ago, Li'l devil said:

Oh yeah, the lack of option to write reviews for new wads is really bad. And why did they still not fix that desync, after over 5 years? Pure negligence. I suggest protesting and rioting.

 

Just go straight to the rioting.

 

But yeah, I think any structured attention given to new releases is inherently a good thing, and the loss of it limits exposure. The forum is fine as far as it goes, but it's still easy for new wads to get lost in the melee.

[jmac]

11 minutes ago, Li'l devil said:

Oh yeah, the lack of option to write reviews for new wads is really bad. And why did they still not fix that desync, after over 5 years? Pure negligence. I suggest protesting and rioting.

There's a pinned thread in Wad Discussion for this exact purpose, yet very few people use it.

[Catpho]

It'd be cool to have it again. Even if a lot of it is just going to be "5 barons 5/5", it's still better than no feedback and having to forum search your project and hope it comes up. It would have been a good place for nice quickfire reviews that can easily be sorted into wads you wanna read about instead of the more casual, disorganized nature of the "what are you playing" threads (even the pinned thread in W&M has this problem, for all its good intentions). Would be cool as a way to centralize takes from people you like, too. Not everyone wants to laborously archive their reviews.

In truth, I never had a use for them as a player back when they still worked (I relied on detailed forum / blog posts and Cacowards instead, places that I know would've put some thought), so maybe I don't feel its absence as others. I think most online reviews for anything is terrible. I wrote a /newstuff once but I don't actually use it often. Then again, there might be better reviewers nowadays that might actually make reading them worthwhile.

[Mr. Freeze]

WE PUT OUR FAITH IN THE WADAZINE

[baja blast rd.]

6 hours ago, Maribo said:

I'm the person who initially suggested the reviews thread over in WAD Discussion and I think retrospectively it was a poor idea

 

6 hours ago, Catpho said:

even the pinned thread in W&M has this problem

 

To clear something up, I started that thread because I felt I might end up wanting a place to dump off occasional reviews that I couldn't put on DW Files. (Anyone could have started a similar "all-purpose review" thread if they wanted to.) It wasn't designed as an "official replacement" and the opening line is just to prevent it from stealing reviews that would be better placed elsewhere. I don't think that it's a bad idea, because its existence makes nothing worse. I wasn't using Maribo's idea anyway (in fact I had forgotten about the earlier convo we had about the subject).  

 

edit: I added an extra line for clarity to that thread so that hopefully people stop framing it as a "DW Files replacement" (it's not quite that ambitious lol).

[LadyMistDragon]

10 minutes ago, Mr. Freeze said:

WE PUT OUR FAITH IN THE WADAZINE

that sounds a little bit sarcastic, I can't imagine why :P)

 

But that's kind of the problem though. I know there's people out there who give it a glance whenever a new issue's released but it's not really 'out there' in the way something like a Newstuff Chronicles is.

Edited January 24, 2024 by LadyMistDragon

[roadworx]

i probably should've known this was gonna become a complaing thread in hindsight.

 

this was coming more from the adaptation pov (i.e. how has it shaped the community n stuff) but ehhh looking back it was a dumb idea

 

1 hour ago, Maribo said:

I dunno. I was never around for /newstuff so I won't pretend like I have any idea what it was like, but the lack of a functioning review page for new WADs is getting to be really painful. I have things that I would like to write about but not in a capacity where I want to make a Whole New Thread About The Thing in WAD Discussion, and making a habit of bumping too many old release threads to drop a review in them would be.... unfair to the actual new releases, which already don't last very long on the front page of WAD Releases as is.

/newstuff was very nice, actually. it gave everyone a chance to get feedback, no matter the wad - hell, my shitty first ever wad was reviewed on it. knowing that your wad was gonna get exposure and feedback regardless of your skill was really wonderful, and i honestly kinda liked the feeling of eagerly waiting for my wad to show up on it.

 

it used to be a staple of the website but it died due to nobody ever wanting to do them...though that was back when the reviews section was actually working, so there's likely more interest in it now. though, the increased volume of new wads would make it difficult and there would likely have to be changes to its structure.

Edited January 24, 2024 by roadworx

[Li'l devil]

25 minutes ago, Catpho said:

Even if a lot of it is just going to be "5 barons 5/5"

 

Oh yes please, I miss that era.

 

[No-Man Baugh]

35 minutes ago, Li'l devil said:

 

Oh yes please, I miss that era.

 

How generous of them rating these wads a 0 out of -5, could've easily given them a -5

[JustAthel]

I miss having reviews on WADS, it gave me a good metric for what people liked and didn't like in my levels, or if people even played it at all. Now it just seems like all the new stuff I make doesn't get noticed. Even without being (I guess somewhat) selfish on this point, having reviews and even having it so people would write articles on /newstuff made us as the community know which levels we should check out as opposed to which ones we should just skip. I don't think you really get something like that that's on the forefront of the community anymore... 

[bofu]

I'd rather have /newstuff chronicles than reviews. Some of the people writing reviews for wads on idgames shouldn't be trusted with dental floss, never mind the ability to impact a wad's score.

[Noiser]

I was lucky enough to have one of my wads on /newstuff before it's end!



*blushes* s2 s2 s2

[BunnyBun]

I really miss wad reviews under the wad on the idgames archive. Why can't we bring them back? Are there no website people maintaining the site? Seems like it shouldn't be too hard to bring back reviews for the largest doom archive site. Real bummer...

[Arsinikk]

I think I previously commented on a thread very similar to this like a year ago or something.

 

I can't say I exactly miss the /newstuff chronicles, because I joined the community in 2021. But I think that it would most benefit the smaller and new creators the most. The problem is that it requires someone to do it.

 

I think the main thing that comes to mind recently that does a pretty good job of showcasing WADs each week is the Doom WADs YouTube channel:
https://www.youtube.com/@doomwads

 

The only downside to the above, is that it isn't actually reviews, just a WAD showcase.

 

I think it's a bit harder for new creators to get a start unless someone comments on their thread... Especially if there's a super big project (Eviternity II or MyHouse), your post can get pushed easily to the second or third page, which may result in it being missed.

 

Having a way to see new releases highlighted per week with the ability to comment/rate would be really nice. Currently since everything is in a single thread, new releases will easily get pushed off the first page.

 

5 hours ago, LadyMistDragon said:

Cacowards and Top 100 WADS list the ever-more attractive options

Imo this makes it even worse, in that some creators further look forward to achieving such a feat, just to have their project noticed.

 

4 hours ago, Maribo said:

I'm the person who initially suggested the reviews thread over in WAD Discussion

The issue with this approach is that it's inconvenient. Why should I want to post a review about some random WAD on a page that just includes a bunch of random reviews of other random WADs? At that point, my review is just gonna get lost in a sea of random reviews.

 

This is like if for an app review, you had to go to a random place where everyone rates different apps. Of course, rating/commenting on an app on it's app page is the easiest and makes the most sense.

 

5 hours ago, roadworx said:

it still kinda does, but starting in 2018 it desynced and now only pre-2018 wads are reviewable.

I actually really don't like this. I think people often underestimate the power of having their WAD on the front page, and the fact that newer creators post-2018 can't ever get featured here just plain sucks. In my view, it's almost like we are missing out on a full 5+ years of Doom history.

I'd like to clarify that this has nothing to do with my own WADs or projects. If I wasn't a creator, I would still have the exact same opinions about this. Nor is this me "ranting" or "complaining".

 

I have the exact same opinion as when YouTube disabled dislikes or when creators disable comments on their videos. I think that the fact that new creators do not have access to the same features of WADs/creators pre-2018, is a bit of shame.

[roadworx]

58 minutes ago, BunnyBun said:

I really miss wad reviews under the wad on the idgames archive. Why can't we bring them back? Are there no website people maintaining the site? Seems like it shouldn't be too hard to bring back reviews for the largest doom archive site. Real bummer...

if it were as simple as "bring back the reviews" then they would've done it a long time ago. creating and maintaining a website is harder than just turning things on and off.

[Deadwing]

I miss both of the stuff, I guess the review section didn't got fixed due.to costs reasons?

[Doomkid]

The lack of a "random" button that leads me to a file that I can then review, not only to inform people of some basics but as a breadcrumb for myself to know I've already played it, has substantially impacted my Dooming over the years. That was the primary way I used to find old wads from 2008 through to 2017.

 

Sorting through random files and playing like 3-4 in a row that I've already played before a couple years earlier but wasn't able to review happened way too often and became way too tedious, too much noise-to-signal ratio in that particular hobby. Between that and having no easy way to share my thoughts on individual files themselves, I unfortunately have slowly but surely lost interest in the years since. (In sorting through old wads lol not Doom itself, to clarify)

 

There's some weird, hacky ways I could get around this - finding a file I haven't played using "random" on the old frontend, then finding the corresponding page on the new frontend when search works, which can be a bit tedious, then review it there, then finally move onto the next file, but it's like going back to a fax machine after boing spoiled by texting.

 

Don't take this as a harsh complaint post, just posting my personal experience since things got reshuffled. I doubt it had this much of an effect on most people's Doom experience - I'd be an edge case, I sought to review every actual wad on there at some point (and got pretty far before things closed down), I doubt most people were attempting that.

[Somniac]

I used to regularly read /newstuff when I lurked here years ago before ever creating an account. I miss it, and I agree that the lack of an equivalent feature is a shame. Its equally a shame that the files section only goes up to 2018 wads, and there's no way to comment on the /idgames uploads (presumably to limit spam/troll comments which is fair). The result is you have to rely on your project thread, which is no guarantee if your wad is competing for screen time with more popular things. Page 1 seems fairly slow at the moment, presumably January is a quieter time, but when its buzzing? Good luck m8. I've seen someone here describe DW as an attention-based economy, which I think is accurate. The community is also seemingly bigger than its ever been, which while being a positive, obviously increases the amount of voices clamouring for a limited well of attention. Nobody can cover every single thing, obviously.

 

Another issue is that writing in-depth, well-written reviews takes time and commitment which people may not have, especially these days. Its all well and good saying "this was a nice map!", but...how was it nice? What did you like about it, etc? I struggle with this too and I don't begrudge anyone for being in the same position. I have to be in the right place mentally to elaborate on things in detail, I'm running a community project atm and I'm doing my best to give testing feedback that is both valuable and positive, while also being succint, because I have other things in life to contend with, as does everyone. 

 

In short, I feel like the lack of /newstuff has been detrimental, but I'm not sure what the solution is. Having something like that come back requires both the time and willingness (both of which may be limited resources) of individuals to run and maintain it, and the ability of the forum software to accommodate such a thing. I have neither the technical expertise or the knowledge as to why the latter is an issue. 

[bioshockfan90]

I was around for the tail end of /newstuff (forgot if I had an account or not :p) and it was always a pretty fun read. Weird timing, I've been tempted to make a "This Month in Doom" type thread over on WAD Discussion but 

A. not only have I not been playing Doom that much this month, but;

 

B. that would be extremely hard to do in a nonbiased way.

 

There are a few threads I can think of that catalogued the year's releases just in a smaller, non-cacoward format that are on the tip of my tongue that I actually used to find stuff to play, even cataloging this stuff is better than nothing but ideally we'd just get /idgames review functionality back. 

 

I think it's been both a curse and a blessing, curse because you get the same feed of review trains on the old /idgames stuff and nothing new, but blessing because you have all these new alternative outlets like say, Backloggd or Tumblr blogs (hey, I do that! I promise I'll do a more thorough advert for that once I hit 50 reviews), or full on fansites or youtube channels. Lot more creative ways to review WADs now, it's just not directly plugged on Doomworld so it tends to go under the radar. 

 

 

[Firedust]

I really wish there was a dw forums thread documenting all released but not-yet-uploaded-to-idgames maps/mapsets in a specific year. Unfortunately, not everyone uploads to the archives and you don't always have time to play through all the cool stuff that's been getting released - so, eventually, you remember a couple maps that you wanted to play but can no longer find them, because you don't remember the authors or the names. Or maybe you want to have a nice roundup sesh to catch up on releases you may have potentially missed out on, but they got buried among other threads.

[Stupid Bunny]

Silly aside, my first (and only) two releases on /idgames were only released on /idgames and, later, /newstuff—I was dumb and never thought to engage with the forums, or somehow thought that having my own project thread for my own map was presumptuous and self-serving. I don’t know why, but it meant the only feedback I ever got on them was through those two places (though decades later one would apparently, by coincidence, come up in a Random /idgames thread).

 

Obviously nowadays I know what a project thread is and that they’re fine for getting feedback at least in the immediate term. All new releases get buried at some point. I do think the lack of function for reviewing new releases on their own page, or effectively tracking them as they come out, is a long-term detriment. Even if a lot of /idgames reviews were useless spamming of either 0 or 5 stars for the most idiotic reasons I think there was sufficient actual response in between, and with the updated format and a perhaps more matured community I think what reviews there are would trend towards being somewhat more thought out (I may be completely delusional in thinking this). I know the problem must be a real pickle if it hasn’t been solved after coming on 6 years so I don’t mean anything other than I wish it were different and we’ll make do with that we have now.

 

/newstuff was fun. I enjoyed doing some writeups of my own and enjoyed reading the weekly reviews as they came out.  The Wadazine, the Random /idgames Adventures, What are you playing now and of course project threads all fill in some of that space and inspiration for what to look at next that’s either new or that I (maybe everyone) missed out on. 

[Individualised]

I really wish the Downloads page worked for new idgames uploads.

[yakfak]

getting instant feedback in project threads kinda pseudo replaces reviews... when someone drops an FDA you can see how they experienced it, instead of their description of what they experienced. but it can have almost zero retrospective information at the same time cos half of a review concerns what your work made the player FEEL and, aside from some obvious concepts like "overwhelmed", "lost" and "determined to make a secret out of a completely innocuous area", you don't find that out at all. in the end I prefer written reviews and not immediate ones. Not Jabba's thread is an all star thread for this reason

 

edit: public review features tend to be petty and meme-y, though, the forum itself is a better place for the written word

Edited January 24, 2024 by yakfak

[Kinsie]

If you want to make a thread every couple of weeks where you write two and a half paragraphs each on every single file uploaded to a single FTP, completely disregarding every other service half the community uses to share mods nowadays, then... you can do that. There's no laws against it. The police are powerless to stop you.

[roadworx]

44 minutes ago, Kinsie said:

If you want to make a thread every couple of weeks where you write two and a half paragraphs each on every single file uploaded to a single FTP, completely disregarding every other service half the community uses to share mods nowadays, then... you can do that. There's no laws against it. The police are powerless to stop you.

i don't think anyone is saying that a revived /newstuff chronicle should continue to exclusively review stuff that passes through /newstuff. i mean, it could, but that'd be quite a bit less useful than something actually covering everything put up onto dw.

 

it'd definitely have to be organized like back in the day tho, not just a single person starting a thread where they write a bunch of reviews for everything. that'd be infeasible.

Edited January 24, 2024 by roadworx