Do you care about unrealistic/inaccurate guns?

[Lippeth]

I'd say my sweet spot is somewhere between "realistic" and "abstract". A game can be as as fantastical as it needs to but if I can't even emotionally or subconsciously understand what I'm looking at (like the aeturnum in Amid Evil), my suspension of disbelief and/or my interest might start to wane. That said if I need to input a series of David Cage level button prompts just to reload or worse, to clear a jammed gun or manually add rounds to a magazine, I'd say it's too far in the other direction (assuming it's not a sim game).

 

I can't lie and say it's never bothered me to reload a fairly realistic looking shotgun in a fairly realistic looking game, see the animation do an obligatory pump at the end and either a) not eject an un-fired shell or b) not be able to load one more round, but at a certain point it's more about expectation and immersion rather than "realism". While something like that specific scenario does seem like an oversight to me depending on the game, I can't say it hurts the overall experience if the main point of the game isn't a focus on gun mechanics. As long as the guns match the same tone and style as the rest of the game they're in, I'm sure to enjoy them so long as I enjoy the rest of the game.

 

This was oddly tedious to write and I still don't feel I got my full point across but it's not that serious so I'm giving up.

[maxmanium]

No

[Jello]

11 hours ago, Pechudin said:

 

Is that unrealistic? Don't know what a SVT-40 is but Germans were infamous for hoarding captured weapons, to the chagrin of their logistic officers. Also D-Day troops were often low-quality soldiers and "volunteers" from the eastern territories of the Reich.

The SVT-40 was a Russian semi-automatic rifle chambered in 7.62x54R, with a 10 round detacheable magazine, and it was supposed to replace the Mosin Nagant bolt action rifle, which held five rounds. I don't think I've ever read any accounts of the German's using them on the Eastern Front in favor of their Mauser 98K's or the G43, the G43, being a semi-automatic rifle chambered in 7.92x57 (8MM Mauser), with a 10 round detacheable magazine, being a much better direct comparison to the SVT-40. 

 

The Russian PPSH 41 on the other, I have read of quite a few occassions where the Germans would use those instead. They were an automatic submachinegun chambered in 7.62x25, and they were well known for their reliability, and they could accept 72 round drum magazines, in addition to the 35 round stick magazines. Often the Germans would just rechamber them to use the 9x19 cartridge that they used in their MP40's, because the MP40, while a good firearm, was overly complicated, and it was finicky. It wasn't as reliable in the environments that the Germans were fighting in, so it was uncommon for them to switch from an MP40 to a PPSH. 

 

That being said, I haven't heard of any accounts of them being used by Germans on D-Day. All the PPSH's that the Germans were using were busy in Russia at that point. Maybe some ended up in Normandy, but if they did, it was at best a handful. And if Germans ever actually used the SVT-40, it was in such limited numbers that I've never seen a picture of them. They were a prized rifle for the Russians, and I would imagine the difference in cartridge size would've made it hard to rechamber them for 8MM Mauser.

Edited January 26 by Jello

[Murdoch]

3 hours ago, Explorer of Time said:

I have only one thing to say on this topic.

 

Jeeze dude careful! Videos like this can give a gun nerd an anger stroke!

[Chookum]

In fiction I operate entirely on the rule of cool, and fully encourage right-handed left handed guns with the shell casings flying across the screen, twirling lever-action shotguns, dual-wielding, gun-kata, and bullet-time nonsense.

 

Our ancestors probably did something similar for the weapons of their days too, embellishing how effective something is because they thought it looked cool. Think about how many medieval stories and modern fantasies revolve around magical swords, like Excalibur, Hrunting, Kusanagi-no-Tsurugi, Durendal. Fantasy stories like Lord of the Rings have swords like Sting, Glamdril and Narsil, and there's even more if you keep looking like the Vorpal Sword, the Master Sword, Doom Eternal's Crucible, the Dragonslayer, the Green Destiny. I could go on but you get the point - we've been holding up weapons and projecting cool into them for a long time.

 

In reality, guns are tools. Treat them with respect and handle them safely, or the consequences can be severe. Lord knows I've seen what happens when you don't. Keeping the fiction and reality separate is important - and you can appreciate and respect both aspects.

[Bridgeburner56]

In a gaming context, the only thing that really matters is "is the gun fun to use". If you tick that box then everything else is secondary.

[LexiMax]

A game gets bonus points from me if it uses the term "clip" instead of "magazine."

[fruity lerlups]

9 hours ago, LexiMax said:

A game gets bonus points from me if it uses the term "clip" instead of "magazine."

god i love that especially cause it makes weirdoes seethe

[fruity lerlups]

here's my checklist for whether you should care about weapon realism.

1. Is it a milsim? If yes, then it matters. If no, go to 2

2. Does it try to appear realistic, e.g. the setting is military/historic in nature? if yes, go to 3, if no, skip to 4.

3. Do the creative liberties enhance the experience, e.g. gunporn, rule of cool, etc. if Yes, go to 4, if no, then it matters.

4. It doesn't matter.

[fruity lerlups]

10 hours ago, Bridgeburner56 said:

In a gaming context, the only thing that really matters is "is the gun fun to use". If you tick that box then everything else is secondary.

this but also, in certain contexts, realism IS the fun in the guns, i mean specifically for milsims and stuff, something about how for example, in Rising Storm Vietnam, open bolt guns and DA Revolvers actually have the slightest delay when you fire them, the way weapon length matters in Insurgency Sandstorm, etc. all add to the fun. Even just modeling quirks, like the M1 Garand's ping, just adds character and identity to the weapons in a game that a lot of Modern Military Shooters dont have.

Outside of milsims, just do whats good for the gameplay and cool factor. We all know flipping an 1887 doesnt really work, but we also know its badass and lets you dual wield em.

[fruity lerlups]

22 hours ago, Mr. Freeze said:

Red dot lasers are obsolete but designers jam them onto weapons

whats funnt is usually qhat they ahould in fames are Infrared Lasers like the AN/PEQ designed to be used with nightvision goggles. So theyre usually mot even actual laser sights 

OTOH lots of Hostage Rescue and SWAT teams use Laser Sights but the purpose is about reducing casualties more than improving the "killing powah" of the operators lol.

edit: sorry for spamming mods :(

Edited January 26 by fruity lerlups
sorry

[QuaketallicA]

On 1/25/2024 at 8:38 AM, Panzermann11 said:

There are real-life guns that sound close to how Hollywood and video games depict suppressed weapons: the AS Val and VSS Vintorez. From what I hear, the gun has an integrated supressor and it makes use of a sub-sonic ammo type. Here's a video of the gun in action, it sounds like a god-damn airsoft gun.

 

Cool! I didn't know that. Although I do remember the AS Val from all my hours in the Battlefield series :)

[QuaketallicA]

On 1/25/2024 at 6:28 AM, Mr. Freeze said:

My biggest problem isn't even the guns, it's how Special Forces are portrayed as independent demigods and not simply one part of a much larger army who are supporting them from behind. 

 

Have you played Medal of Honor (2010)? The Special Forces in that game are portrayed more accurately. In fact that game is based on a real life operation. Call of Duty, especially from MW2 onwards but even CoD 4 to a lesser extent, has the veneer of the military movie genre, but the characters are very much action movie heroes. That's why they're "demi-gods."

[QuaketallicA]

On 1/25/2024 at 4:45 AM, Pechudin said:

 

Is that unrealistic? Don't know what a SVT-40 is but Germans were infamous for hoarding captured weapons, to the chagrin of their logistic officers. Also D-Day troops were often low-quality soldiers and "volunteers" from the eastern territories of the Reich.

 

I'm not a history buff when it comes to that kind of minutae, but it seems more than a stretch to think that at that point, well before the German war machine began to crumble, that they would resort to using enemy weapons, especially on the western coast of France using weapons looted from the enemy all the way in Russia. I could more easily suspend my disbelief if the levels were on the Eastern Front, or even for Battle of the Bulge perhaps, but on D-Day? 

 

Look at this source: https://www.dday-overlord.com/en/material/weaponry

 

The guns used are what you'd expect: MG 42, FG 42, MG 34, MP 40, Kar 98K, Geweher 43, M1 Carbine, M1 Garand, BAR, Thompson, M1911, Bren, Lee-Enfield, etc.

[Pechudin]

3 hours ago, QuaketallicA said:

 

I'm not a history buff when it comes to that kind of minutae, but it seems more than a stretch to think that at that point, well before the German war machine began to crumble, that they would resort to using enemy weapons, especially on the western coast of France using weapons looted from the enemy all the way in Russia. I could more easily suspend my disbelief if the levels were on the Eastern Front, or even for Battle of the Bulge perhaps, but on D-Day? 

 

Look at this source: https://www.dday-overlord.com/en/material/weaponry

 

The guns used are what you'd expect: MG 42, FG 42, MG 34, MP 40, Kar 98K, Geweher 43, M1 Carbine, M1 Garand, BAR, Thompson, M1911, Bren, Lee-Enfield, etc.

 

Fair enough, but it is not unbelievable. I'd say that weapons like the PPSH would most probably be used by frontline troops on the Ostfront, especially in urban combat. Westfront less so. It depends on how common the guns are - if one or two enemies have it or it is hidden in some storage then it could be an interesting detail, maybe it could even flesh out the world of the game - some poor Belarussian sod that volunteered for the Wehrmacht and got sent to the Westfront (although using a captured gun, especially with different ammo, is just a bad logistic decision - but this is WW2 Germany we are talking about).

 

I believe this was more common with artillery - AFAIK the coastal artillery on D-Day was a menagerie of different pieces.

[Panzermann11]

On 1/25/2024 at 9:28 PM, Mr. Freeze said:

Canted aiming is stupid and exists mostly in videogames. Red dot lasers are obsolete but designers jam them onto weapons for TEAR WUN OPERATUR points. Also enlarged iron sights bother me too. 

From what I read, apparently you can't aim down the sights with night vision goggles because the goggles get in the way, so laser sights are used for aiming instead.

Edited February 26 by Panzermann11

[kwc]

Not at all.

 

*loads clip into shotgun*

[Naarok0fkor]

It's Ok to try new things that won't look good especially if it's your first weapon makeover. On the other hand, trying to be super-realistic can be too morbid.

[TwinBeast]

Some realism is ok, but completely fine to have unrealistic things for the sake of better gameplay.

 

Recently I've been playing Deus Ex with Shifter mod. The mod allows getting experience points by killing hostile characters. I was in the Versalife building offices. The guards there are initially friendly, so I decide to first shoot one of them to the leg to make him hostile. But he just stands there as if nothing happened. I had to shoot him several times to the legs to make him and the other guards hostile. After the fight, there's still one of the guards at the elevator, somehow he didn't notice all the shooting and killing, although was turned hostile when I went closer. It was fun despite the whole situation was unrealistic.

[mrthejoshmon]

Depends.

 

If I play something like Ready or Not, I want the gun to be as accurate as possible in the game that's trying to be as realistic as possible (despite the fact that unarmoured goons are the fucking Terminator but I digress).

 

If the game is a sci-fi/fantastical game then go fuckin nuts with it.

 

There are limitations and through lines however. For instance I am fine with Half-Life 1 having the military use/adding a grenade launcher to the MP5 despite the fact it makes little sense but I am not fine with Half-Life 2's smg (that looks like an MP7) having a grenade launching ability despite the fact it has no method of firing it (literally, it lacks the attachment, that grenade comes from nowhere, I get the weapon is an amalgamation of several weapons that were cut but Christ man).

 

I am also somewhat bothered by the shotgun, clearly modelled after a Spas, having double barrelled fire (it has one barrel).

 

Shit just has to at least look like it makes slight sense or at least be so fantastical in design it doesn't matter.

Edited January 30 by mrthejoshmon

[The BMFG]

I like the charm some inaccurate weapons have to them, like the CS 1.6 / CS SOURCE weapons

[fai1025]

To me it comes down to theme, if your game suppose to be unrealistic, arcadic, or comedic shooter, than go ahead make the most bat-shit insane gun you can, a great example of this is TF2 as many mentioned, a realistic firearm just don't work with the theme of TF, but if you're going a serious theme, it is important to have guns somewhat realistic, as you are depicting a conflict or warfare based on reality or what reality could be. I supposed sci-fi shooter get a pass, but I feel like a fictional firearm that actually probable in real life adds to the immersion. To be honest, if we have a game that firearms are 100% realistic, that would be a boring game, since imagine you could get kill or unable to fight after just one or two shot, there's no balancing in real life unfortunately, some firearms are just direct upgrade of another, and shotguns don't have melee range.

[kodi]

I care when the realistic way is cooler. It isn't always. Having a good understanding of whatever subject will help anyone choose the coolest way to present it in a piece of media, with a conscious departure from reality. 

[heliumlamb]

i like calling the thing that holds the explody projectile things that can come out the swirly tube of an m1 garand a "magazine" when in the vicinity of ammosexual-adjacent friends, just to see what happens.

[Wo0p]

1 hour ago, heliumlamb said:

i like calling the thing that holds the explody projectile things that can come out the swirly tube of an m1 garand a "magazine" when in the vicinity of ammosexual-adjacent friends, just to see what happens.

 

You twisted being, you.

[Rykzeon]

Unless it's because engine limitations and the game isn't trying to decipt realistic enviroments, no. The only thing that bothers me that a weapon shoots bullet with its cartridges.

Edited February 22 by Rykzeon

[Li'l devil]

If the devs get anything wrong, like safety lever flipped the wrong way or a time period inaccurate flash hider, I send them threats and post hateful comments on Reddit.

[Koko Ricky]

Not being a gun expert, I'm extremely unlikely to notice the subtle details in inaccurate depictions of weapons in games. However, it does bother me if the gun looks ugly or is animated poorly, as that is distracting. For instance, I absolutely loathe the design of the guns in Quake Champions, and this might sound silly, but it's one of the reasons I don't have any interest in playing it. Every gun is some stupid labyrinthine Rub Goldberg design vomit that is too busy and lacks distinction.

Edited February 22 by Koko Ricky

[ReX]

On 1/24/2024 at 9:16 PM, Artman2004 said:

Does any of this sort of stuff bother you at all?

Although I have some familiarity with firearms, I am not a weapons purist. Therefore, I don't even pay attention to discrepancies. Moreover, so many games have futuristic, sci-fi weapons that "realism" is not even a thing. But I understand what you're asking.

 

(Sorry, double-post; couldn't truly delete original post.)

Edited February 22 by ReX
Double post

[ReX]

On 1/24/2024 at 9:16 PM, Artman2004 said:

Does any of this sort of stuff bother you at all?

Although I have some familiarity with firearms, I am not a weapons purist. Therefore, I don't even pay attention to discrepancies. Moreover, so many games have futuristic, sci-fi weapons that "realism" is not even a thing. But I understand what you're asking.

 

Another reason for game developers to deviate from "realism" is that without that deviation it might make the use of a weapon unwieldy, or downright frustrating to use.