Why do people hate TNT Evilution so much?

[Xaser]

TNT hate is not a new phenomenon by any means -- folks have been mixed about it for as long as I've been in the community (read: about 3 metric forevers). If anything, nowadays you'll see a lot more supporters of maps that used to be universally panned (e.g. Habitat, Metal, the O'Brien maps). It's pretty dang cool that so many folks are able and willing to pick out the good parts (and often craft cool new maps using said ideas) rather than just say "lol it sux" and move on.

[JoeyKelastiof]

TNT has always been one of my favourite iwad. I only learnt about the hate it got a few years ago. I liked the maps, the soundtrack, the space skybox etc.. It was all a bit different from the other iwads. And even though people have constructive criticism, don't forget that with the rise of youtubers and internet, some people tend to also have herd mentality sometimes. Like how you're not supposed to like something after finding out the majority doesn't like it. Not saying this is the case for everyone obviously!! Just saying it adds to the general opinion.

Edited January 30 by JoeyKelastiof

[Rykzeon]

I hate Open Season because that map made me running for hours because the layout and map progression is confusing. Doors that leads to map progression blended too well with the nearby walls, and sometimes mistaken as decoration. But my problem is that one door that leads to red keycard. I even forgot that door existed. Like, why they didn't use locked door instead of "yo, you the player must press this switch that you don't even know where this switch will open which door" and telegraph it correctly. Very memorable map, in other way.

[ObserverOfTime]

I played TNT before I was ever aware of any drama back in the day, and having more content to play kicked butt. It did not really leave a lasting impression on me, but I do recall being pretty hyped when I finally got my hands on it. For one reason or another, the whole commercialization drama flew by me. I just wanted to play more video games, and TNT kept me entertained for some time. I guess I was pretty simple. I don't hate it, I don't love it. These days it is more of an interesting curiosity due to the historical significance and we have significantly better WADs to play all around. Play it or don't play it but spending your time actively hating something you don't have to ever interact with again seems like a hot waste of energy. Trying to convince others of your opinion is especially futile. I enjoyed reading everyone's perspective tho.

[Polri]

As a teenager in the nineties I loved the Shores of Hell, TNT Evilution and Eternal Doom. It's only decades later that I discovered that many people on the internet dislike them. :)

 

What I mostly liked about TNT was how it starts in familiar Doom 2 territory (maps 1-3), and then gradually moves on towards "things you haven't seen before", and "doom on a scale you haven't experienced before", culminating in the (for that time) jaw-dropping vista of Mount Pain and the "wtf?" feeling when you reach the insta-death platforms in map 30.

 

For me, Wormhole felt like the transition map nailing the "you're not in Kansas anymore" feeling, and Crater was the map that first introduces a very large area. Off course, in hindsight it feels weird to see how underused that crater area actually is, but back then it's sheer scale was enough to awe me, and it kind off foreshadowed the even grander outdoor areas at the end of maps 20, 21 and off course 27.

 

The only thing that dissapointed me back then, is that while TNT innovated with new music, new textures, larger maps and new gameplay gimmicks, it didn't have any new monsters. 

For me, the most memorable moments were:

• The spooky second half of Wormhole, which I only discoverd on my second playthrough
• The prison fight in map 7
• The never ending danger in Stronghold
• The aforementioned crater area
• The realistic looking guard towers and gigantic crate maze in storage facility
• A pyramid!
• Everything about"Deepest reaches: the atmospheric midi, the feeling of going ever deeper, the many secrets and optional areas...
• Maps 18-21, a buildup towards ever grander areas and mystery
• (Granted, maps 22-25 were not that great, but still: the secret areas in Habitat and the pseudo 3d underground maze in Lunar mining facility were quite neat)
• The mysterious atmosphere of map 26, culminating in that area in the void that teleports you back to the temple from the start. Really felt like an adventure on its own where you explore the deep secrets hiding underneath an ancient temple
• Mount pain! A mountain in hell that spawns lost souls!
• The cursed maze in map 29
• Dying instantly when stepping on a wrong platform, how is that even possibly in doom?

Edited February 3 by Polri

[Amaruψ]

On 1/27/2024 at 9:39 AM, Cutman 999 said:

Because mill, administration center and habitat are in there.

 

Also, the rest just doesn't stand out that much at all, and have mediocre gameplay even compared to the other iwads.

 

I've played it through quite a few times, and I seriously doubt it's any worse than Doom EP3 or Doom 2 in general. As bad as they are, I think nobody can accomplish a boring map more than Sandy.

[Cutman 999]

9 hours ago, Amaruψ said:

 

I've played it through quite a few times, and I seriously doubt it's any worse than Doom EP3 or Doom 2 in general. As bad as they are, I think nobody can accomplish a boring map more than Sandy.

Unless Drake o' brien of course. Tnt map 20 makes unholy cathedral blush.

[doomlayman]

I don't recall coming across people who hate it. I like it more than Plutonia because it has a more "Techbase" level design.

Edited February 5 by doomlayman

[VanaheimRanger]

Ty had a good concept for MAP04, but I've seen the concept used better elsewhere.

 

Other than that, the maps are mediocre to bad.

[Logamuffin]

11 hours ago, VanaheimRanger said:

Ty had a good concept for MAP04, but I've seen the concept used better elsewhere.

 

Other than that, the maps are mediocre to bad.

Going Down MAP05 blows TNT MAP04 out of the water.

[valkiriforce]

Pretty sure TNT would blow anything out of the water...it's a dangerous explosive.

[Li'l devil]

THIS is the reason why TNT Evilution is so bad

 

[PsychEyeball]

I thought I wasn't a huge TNT fan when I clicked this, but the bullet list of complaints brought up to TNT feels so unfair and such that it actually made me rethink my stance on it enough to say "You know what? TNT was all right." Must have been that my skills at Doom have improved a lot ever since, but I have way more tolerance for the little things TNT do that don't sit with me well. But otherwise, TNT had a kicking soundtrack (a shame it was not all original compositions), a consistent enough theming for the experience to feel like a complete adventure and not just a hodge podge collection of maps and while some maps are definitive low points (Redemption, Habitat, Quarry, Baron's Den), almost every other map have a little something to stick in your mind, either in gimmick form or world building.  You remember Wormhole's world bending, Stronghold's hitscanner hell, the eerily empty crater, the believable factory setting of Shipping/Respawning, the hellish bridge leading to that underground temple in Ballistyx and a bunch of other things I didn't name. It's fair to criticize TNT for some things but I feel like certain comments like these...

22 hours ago, Logamuffin said:

Going Down MAP05 blows TNT MAP04 out of the water.

Are just missing the point entirely. You mean to tell us a Boom map made in 2014 outshines a 1996 map made during a time level editors were held together by glue and eldritch energy? I'm shocked.

 

I'd say TNT is a grower. I was left with zero impression on my first playthrough of it back when I was a kid, but I feel time has been somewhat more charitable to TNT than a bunch of other WADs. Being a Team TNT product, it has a certain hustle that warrants respect.

[Amaruψ]

On 2/5/2024 at 1:22 AM, Logamuffin said:

Going Down MAP05 blows TNT MAP04 out of the water.

 

If "things that sound too dumb to be publicly said by someone" award was a real thing, this would've been in the top 3 somewhere, or a nominee at the very least.

[Logamuffin]

2 hours ago, PsychEyeball said:

Are just missing the point entirely. You mean to tell us a Boom map made in 2014 outshines a 1996 map made during a time level editors were held together by glue and eldritch energy? I'm shocked. 

I was going off the other guy's point about TNT Map04 and giving an example, though I am aware of how dumb it sounds now. My bad.

[VanaheimRanger]

19 hours ago, PsychEyeball said:

I thought I wasn't a huge TNT fan when I clicked this, but the bullet list of complaints brought up to TNT feels so unfair and such that it actually made me rethink my stance on it enough to say "You know what? TNT was all right." Must have been that my skills at Doom have improved a lot ever since, but I have way more tolerance for the little things TNT do that don't sit with me well. But otherwise, TNT had a kicking soundtrack (a shame it was not all original compositions), a consistent enough theming for the experience to feel like a complete adventure and not just a hodge podge collection of maps and while some maps are definitive low points (Redemption, Habitat, Quarry, Baron's Den), almost every other map have a little something to stick in your mind, either in gimmick form or world building.  You remember Wormhole's world bending, Stronghold's hitscanner hell, the eerily empty crater, the believable factory setting of Shipping/Respawning, the hellish bridge leading to that underground temple in Ballistyx and a bunch of other things I didn't name. It's fair to criticize TNT for some things but I feel like certain comments like these...

Are just missing the point entirely. You mean to tell us a Boom map made in 2014 outshines a 1996 map made during a time level editors were held together by glue and eldritch energy? I'm shocked.

 

I'd say TNT is a grower. I was left with zero impression on my first playthrough of it back when I was a kid, but I feel time has been somewhat more charitable to TNT than a bunch of other WADs. Being a Team TNT product, it has a certain hustle that warrants respect.

I feel like if I had played it when I was a kid I might agree, however I played it as a 30 something adult, and felt like I had played much better stuff that came from the same era. I mean, Putonia was part of the same package and it is about 100x better overall.

[Stupid Bunny]

I like Dead Zone a lot

 

I like the giant sprawly Drake O’Brien maps

 

I like the janky weird textures and general disjointedness of it all

 

TNT has some pretty boring half assed maps but also some of the ones that were most inspirational to me when I started mapping, and for good or ill I will always love it for that 

 
For a more detailed breakdown of why I like TNT I refer you to the many dozens of prior posts I’ve made on the subject

[Maximum Matt]

Hope they don't close THIS thread.  Jesus