General thoughts on the Spider Demon/Mastermind?

[zokum]

The change in settings made a lot of sense to me. If episode 2 was hell, then episode 3 would feel like content from episode 1 and 2 recycled. The Hell style allows for much grander architecture than the episode 2 style. It suits the BFG a lot better, open rooms and outdoor areas and large hordes of monsters.

It also doesn't make that much sense logically that you first go to a space base on phobos where you clean out, then travel to hell. After defeating hell you have to go to another space base-like area to clean up some more, and this section is harder than hell itself?

It might have happened 'late' in the cycle but I suspect it had been brought up more than once during development. Having Dis as e2m8 wouldn't have been a problem at all. In many ways DIS looks more like an episode 2 map than e2m8, which feels more like an episode 3 map.

I think they over-estimated how lethal the spider mastermind was and underestimated the cyberdemon. The cyber also feels a lot tankier if you try to rocket it to death, while on e3m8 you would use a combination of other monsters, plasma and rockets. She just feels a lot squishier. On continuous play the plasma isn't all that much better than rockets on e2m8 vs the cyber, while the BFG is awesome vs the spider mastermind. The DPS you do with BFG vs spider is mind-boggling, an average of around 3500 damage per second when used continuously.

[magicsofa]

5 hours ago, zokum said:

On continuous play the plasma isn't all that much better than rockets on e2m8 vs the cyber

 

I thought it was like 100 damage per second better than rockets? But yeah... still gives Cybie a little more time.

 

Also, something I previously had overlooked is that her speed is only 12 whereas Cyberdemon has 16. She's literally slower than a pinkie because of the slower animation speed.

[Hydrus]

I had an idea for a map where you would fight the SMM in a E3M8-like arena with only a chaingun. The SMM would also teleport around the arena. Too bad I never finished it.

[THT]

If they'd just given her the secondary ability to rush like Lost Souls with a ton of damage she'd be a lot more interesting.

Edited February 9 by THT

[zokum]

She could have had a teleport attack. Worked well in other id engine games and makes sense lore wise. If she teleports around, her slow walking speed wouldn't matter. The map would have to be built around the ability and she would be a formidable opponent. Teleport to the farthest away from you that is in LOS or if not, to the closest location. As long as she starts firing quickly, she would be formidable. She would keep her distance whenever possible and hunt you down quite efficiently.

 

Edited April 16 by zokum

[TF_Doomer]

Honestly the Mastermind is just a very underwhelming final boss and for me makes sense for DOOM I but they should have changed her to be more like a boss version of her Arachnatron counterpart in DOOM II because for me the tiny Arachnatrons are harder than the Mastermind herself and in DOOM II the Chaingunner can do her job as a annoying hitscan encounter far better.

[Pure Hellspawn]

A Spider Demolisher would have been better. Two chainguns, two times the HP, less pain chance, and a BFG it fires twice.

[JimboAnimations]

I remember seeing a WAD for Doom 1 that used her in a really cool way. Her arena was much more advanced and filled with explosive barrels, primarily used to surround ammo and placed in areas next to cover. Beyond the barrels making it harder to grab yourself more rockets, her huge spread could easily pop groups of barrels to act as grenades. This could kill you from behind cover or force you out into the open in a panic. I think the Spider Mastermind is still underwhelming (it was meant to have 2 attacks originally, but ended up just being a super Chaingunner), but it has potential as a boss.

[ALilGrayBoi]

She sucks because of her huge hitbox

[Cutman 999]

Poorly designed by concept and execution alike. The idea was basically to have another wolfenstein 3d like boss, with a dps that forced you to take cover or you are toasted, which is fine for them since you cannot brute force them, but crang, you absolutely can.

 

A subtle thing wolfenstein bosses didn't have, was a pain state to flinch them in a random interval so you could not just keep shooting until they die, crang despite having a low chance to enter the pain state, is somewhat significant with rapid fire weapons like the plasma or chaingun, not to mention the weapons that can have multiples chances to trigger the pain state at once like the ssg or god forbid the bfg.

 

Another thing, the massive size, which not only makes her difficult to place on maps, but also easy to get stuck for every single reason imaginable, is well known that with some luck you can get the mastermind in e3m8 stuck, after all.

 

Also, for some reason she has the shotgunner's spread and attack pattern, it is well known that the mastermind's super chaingun is basically a rapid-fire shotgun. That means that at long distances, she has not so good chances of hitting you, and if she does, it's like the 3-damage min roll the shotgunner's have. 

[JimboAnimations]

I honestly think it would've been cool if her spread gradually got tighter the longer she fired (likely at a pretty fast rate) until it is an incredibly tight cone. It would make it a little more forgiving upfront, but allow her to catch you from greater ranges for most consistent damage the longer you are visible.

[Captain D!psh¡t]

Hmm

Maybe she could have a secondary attack where she shoots revenant missiles