What is the correct way to financially donate to a modder for creating something we think that should be out there?

[doomlayman]

I never had any training in graphic design or sound design and never programmed in C language and never even created a Doom map, so my only current way to mod is re-sorting maps, not a very contributing person to the Doom community, but I guess I could contribute 100 USD a month to a well skilled modder to enhance him working on a project, for say 3 months or 6 months.

 

How do you think people should correctly donate to modders for developing what they think should be developed for the masses?

How would you suggest to do this correctly so it will satisfy both parties (the doner and the modder), will cover all or most expectations, will ensure the general "deadlines", etc.

Edited February 5 by doomlayman

[Redneckerz]

Paypal.

[blueyosh43]

Bro $100 a MONTH to a mod? While you're close to being poor? Are you insane?

[ETTiNGRiNDER]

If they're not asking for this, it's probably best to leave well enough alone.

[doomlayman]

47 minutes ago, blueyosh43 said:

Bro $100 a MONTH to a mod? While you're close to being poor? Are you insane?

 

I tried to be somewhat flexible or metaphoric with the term but to prevent possible redundant philosophy about it I have just removed that part from the post altogether.

Edited February 5 by doomlayman

[JustAthel]

I actually don't even know if donating for mods is a normal thing that happens around here -- do people normally monetize normal maps / gameplay mods and not full on total conversions / full games?

[OniriA]

The best way to go about that would be to dm the artist/creator you want to support about it.

Edited February 5 by OniriA

[kevansevans]

My two cents here as someone who has done doom modding for money:
 

If this guy is on his own working on a mod and has some account where you can throw money at him at your own discretion as a thank you or donation, sure that's pretty nice, you're a good lad for helping.

 

On the flip side, if this is work you're asking someone to do: I'd be pretty insulted with $100 a month for 3 - 6 months of work. Since, here's the thing, it's work. Assuming I contributed 10 hours a week for this job, that'd be a "generous" $2.50 an hour, so working any harder than that would be even less pay. On top, I've got other things in my life to worry about, which includes a job that actually pays my bills. Those 10 hours would not be guaranteed. The only time I'd personally be okay with that sort of funding for work is if it was a one time job that I wouldn't spend more than a day or two on, and even then that might be something I'd do for free if it took less than a day to make happen.

However, at the end of it all, it comes down to the preferences of who you're asking to work for you. If this guy is cool with $100, that's their business entirely. It's just a safe bet anyone here who knows what their work is worth will also know how steep that price tag is.

Edited February 5 by kevansevans

[DRON12261]

I think such issues should probably be solved individually with a particular modder who is willing to work. Someone may live in different regions, where there may be, for example, some sanctions or transfer fees between currencies and here you will need to find special ways for this.

[Wo0p]

2 hours ago, ETTiNGRiNDER said:

If they're not asking for this, it's probably best to leave well enough alone.

 

Spoiler

 

... Sorry.

[Kinsie]

Some modders happily take commissions, but those are typically for individual custom assets, like a music track or a sprite set, not a full-on mod.

 

Some larger mods or modders may have Patreons set up, but it's not hugely common.

 

Outside of those circumstances, the answer is usually a polite but firm "no thank you" - people generally make mods to distract themselves from their crappy underpaying jobs, not to give themselves a second crappy underpaying job atop the first!

[doomlayman]

@Kinsie I didn't necessarily spoke of a full-on mod (whatever that means). 

I also meant for things like taking an existing mod, forking it, adding maps, backgrounds, trees, bosses and other possible gameplay elements, like simple quests.

For example, I am hoping that someone will make a fork of Pirate Doom focusing on The Curse of Monkey Island (Monkey Island 3).

 

How many Patreon-using modders do you know of approximately? My mere curiosity as I never came across one.

 

Do you really compare working a few years (could be 5 years or more) for a large company with making a mod for 3-6 months? I mean come on man, I don't think you really do that comparison and by the way, other people could pay more than 100 USD, perhaps 250-500 USD, how's that sound to you?

Edited February 5 by doomlayman

[Kinsie]

1 hour ago, doomlayman said:

Do you really compare working a few years (could be 5 years or more) for a large company with making a mod for 3-6 months? I mean come on man, I don't think you really do that comparison and by the way, other people could pay more thn 100 USD, perhaps 250-500 USD, how's that sound to you?

Work is work is work. Everyone has their own dreams and aspirations they want to make flesh, and if they're gonna be asked to put aside their free time to beaver away on someone else's dreams and aspirations they aren't enormously passionate about, they better make it worth their while.

 

Also:

1 hour ago, doomlayman said:

For example, I am hoping that someone will make a fork of Pirate Doom focusing on The Curse of Monkey Island (Monkey Island 3).

Paying someone that isn't Disney money for stuff relating to a Disney-owned property sounds like a very good way to get both of you in a lot of trouble.

[esselfortium]

Yeah, if I'm going to be putting my free time into making someone else's project to someone else's specifications on someone else's schedule, they would have to be paying me a lot more than a couple hundred a month to make it worth the time and stress.

 

If there's a Doom project you want to see happen, I would recommend learning the skills to create it yourself.

[OniriA]

Single level or dual level packs and music comissions based on a certain theme? 

 

Shure. Reasonable enough to put into the schedule.

 

But if you're coming to me with money to create your (entire) teletubbies or pokemon TC you're gonna be directed to the door.

 

As for small time contributions to paypal or patreon to motivate someones existing ongoing projects or simply because you liked someones work in the past then I think for most artists that's a welcome form of acknowledgment that their work is liked or loved moreso then the money part of it all. Because most of us have a day job to go around. Unless you're some crazy fucker who's dropping a million $/€ on someone.

Edited February 5 by OniriA

[BoxY]

Don't bother, they don't want your money. Modders only accept the one true universal currency of oral sex.

[DNSKILL5]

I need about tree fiddy..

[OniriA]

13 minutes ago, BoxY said:

 oral sex.

 

By some neckbeard?

 

Eww..

[Fonze]

The only moral/legal way to pay somebody to create a mod which may (in this case, but even in cases where it doesn't) infringe on somebody else's IP is to pay them to generally exist and hope they happen to make the thing you want as opposed to paying them for a product with some expressed or unexpressed expectation of return.

 

In other words, support modders you like because they already make stuff you like, don't try to become a modder's sugar daddy/employer.

Edited February 5 by Fonze

[doomlayman]

1 hour ago, esselfortium said:

Yeah, if I'm going to be putting my free time into making someone else's project to someone else's specifications on someone else's schedule, they would have to be paying me a lot more than a couple hundred a month to make it worth the time and stress.

  

If there's a Doom project you want to see happen, I would recommend learning the skills to create it yourself.

 

I basically pretty much agree with you.

 

Sadly I have one major problem, I am not a native speaker of English, not even of a Germanic language, and it's quite hard for me to read lots of documentation scattered on the web in English on topics I even lack some level of "being gifted" with (if that's the right term in English), like graphic design, especially graphic design, I was always terrible in graphic design so I can't imagine myself doing sprites, especially not animations.

 

However, it would be probably somewhat easier for me to learn other topics of doom modding from a good thick book in English because it's much much easier for me to read a good thick book in English then different long and probably complex articles from a computer in English but sadly from a quick search in amazon.com not even one book about Doom modding is available there.

I would assume that I would be much better in level creation and sound design and maybe even some C tweaks then anything that has to do with graphic design.

 

Edited February 5 by doomlayman

[DNSKILL5]

The only books are from the 90s and they teach you how to use tools that were popular at that time. Unless you want to use old programs you’re going to have to overcome your fear of reading online documentation.

[OniriA]

14 minutes ago, doomlayman said:

a good thick book in English

 

You don't necessarily need a book to learn Doom modding, English isn't my first language either but if you're a visual oriented person like I am (and most people are) then there are countless youtube videos and tutorials on doom mapping and modding out there. 

[fishy]

21 minutes ago, doomlayman said:

Sadly I have one major problem, I am not a native speaker of English, not even of a Germanic language, and it's quite hard for me to read lots of documentation scattered on the web in English on topics I even lack some level of "being gifted" with (if that's the right term in English), like graphic design, especially graphic design, I was always terrible in graphic design so I can't imagine myself doing sprites, especially not animations.

 

 

brother there are tons of resources for you (probably in your native language too) to learn mapping, being a sprite artist isn't an obligation. don't beat yourself down, you can learn just like all of us learned!

[doomlayman]

23 minutes ago, DNSKILL5 said:

The only books are from the 90s and they teach you how to use tools that were popular at that time. Unless you want to use old programs you’re going to have to overcome your fear of reading online documentation.

 

You can believe me or not that it's not fear, but a reality of years of struggling with long complex niche English documentation online, mostly about graphic design; I am just one of this minority of people who needs a good thick book in English, going with it step by step with tutorials and if no such modern book exists, well, until there is one, I prefer to donate for an expert in some nice agreement we both respect.

Edited February 5 by doomlayman

[OniriA]

Google translate has become much better then it was years ago. If you really want to learn from a book you can translate the tutorials using translate into your language, copy them into a word/pdf document, print them and make your "big thick book" 

 

PS: If you're really passionate about something, you'll find a way to learn it no matter the barrier.

 

Edited February 5 by OniriA

[Decay]

48 minutes ago, Fonze said:

 don't try to become a modder's sugar daddy/employer.

People asking for donations to make maps/mods for Doom are like beggars on the streets shaking cups at you while handing you crayon doodles or guys handing you cds outside convenience stores saying "check out my mixtape"

[Scuba Steve]

3 hours ago, esselfortium said:

Yeah, if I'm going to be putting my free time into making someone else's project to someone else's specifications on someone else's schedule, they would have to be paying me a lot more than a couple hundred a month to make it worth the time and stress.

Oh, that reminds me, I need you to make some free music for me, Essel.

[SilverMiner]

5 hours ago, doomlayman said:

For example, I am hoping that someone will make a fork of Pirate Doom focusing on The Curse of Monkey Island (Monkey Island 3).

I've been thinking about it since Jan 2018. Maybe maybe, but I've got stuff to do

[Kinsie]

1 hour ago, doomlayman said:

Sadly I have one major problem, I am not a native speaker of English, not even of a Germanic language, and it's quite hard for me to read lots of documentation scattered on the web in English on topics I even lack some level of "being gifted" with (if that's the right term in English), like graphic design, especially graphic design, I was always terrible in graphic design so I can't imagine myself doing sprites, especially not animations.

A sizable chunk of this community is English-as-a-second-language, and a good chunk of that are native speakers of the slavic languages. If they can, I'm sure you can.

 

Only one way to find out, at any rate...

[DJVCardMaster]

Modders do this for fun, as a work of art, if they are not willing to ask for donations it's because they don't need that. But you can ask any devs personally to throw them some tips for their work.

Personally, I also feel like asking for voluntary donations as a mapper in the community is not welcome, so it's better to leave it that way.

Also, I've never seen any "fundraising" projects here, so that could be strange, people is not used to make wads as a "work" and recieve funds from someone. I don't think that's also a practice that could be well recieved here or in gaming community as a whole, considering how kickstarter projects usually end...

Edited February 5 by DJVCardMaster