What to do if a mod disables jump and/or crouch?

[doomlayman]

A minority of mods just disable jumping and/or crouching. I never understood why it is.

It continues to happen even when GZDOOM controls does have jump by SPACE key or crouch by C key, so I am quite don't know what to do to pass that problem.

 

What to do if a mod disables jumping and/or crouching?

[bofu]

Here's why wads might disable jumping or crouching:

 

* It lets you get to places that you shouldn't be able to get to or lets you trivialize certain areas not designed with jumping or crouching in mind. Jumping and crouching weren't in the original Doom and drastically alter the balance of certain areas when enabled. Having to design around jumping or crouching drastically limits what map authors can do aesthetically and forces them to make things blocking that wouldn't otherwise be blocking, which can prevent monsters from moving where they should be able to move.

* The wad wasn't designed for GZDoom in addition with the above point, and they want parity across other sources ports so that the level doesn't get easier just because you play it in GZDoom.

 

If you want jumping or crouching, you might have to edit the wad itself, or load an additional one that overwrites the MAPINFO of the wad you're playing. But it's probably better just to accept that the wad wasn't meant to be played with jumping.

[Kinsie]

In GZDoom, you can use the console commands sv_allowcrouch 1 and sv_allowjump 1 to override the mapper's explicit choice to disable such features, at the cost of losing the right to complain if you break the level or put it in an unwinnable state, or some other weird thing happens.

[Captain red pants]

1 hour ago, Kinsie said:

In GZDoom, you can use the console commands sv_allowcrouch 1 and sv_allowjump 1 to override the mapper's explicit choice to disable such features, at the cost of losing the right to complain if you break the level or put it in an unwinnable state, or some other weird thing happens.

While we're on the topic, did anyone ever make a stand alone wad that disables jumping and and crouching (and absolutely nothing else)? I use doom mod launcher and it would help keep me honest with older wads if I added it to my usual collection.

Edited February 10 by Captain red pants

[Kinsie]

2 hours ago, Captain red pants said:

While we're on the topic, did anyone ever make a stand alone wad that disables jumping and and crouching (and absolutely nothing else)? I use doom mod launcher and it would help keep me honest with older wads if I added it to my usual collection.

 

Alternatively, sv_nocrouch 1 and sv_nojump 1

[Shepardus]

In GZDoom: Options -> Gameplay Options -> Allow jump/Allow crouch (Yes/No mean what you think they do, Default means it's specified by the map maker)

You can also find these options through GZDoom's option search feature.

Or use the console commands Kinsie shared.

Note that these options are not saved when you close GZDoom, so if you want this on all the time, then put the console commands in an autoexec.cfg file.

Edited February 10 by Shepardus

[URROVA]

Just... dont jump or crouch? If the wad developer blocks it is for a reason, the wad isnt designed for you to jump/crouch.

 

BUT IF YOU ARE A CHEATER, USE sv_allowjump 1 or sv_allowcrouch 1 TO BE AGAINST THE DEVS WILL YOU CHEATER

Edited February 10 by URROVA

[Aeddes666]

If you want jump and crouch, go ahead. Do what you like and have fun.

 

Also, i think that's adding jump and crouch force the mapper to be more creative.

No more "damn, can't reach that key/healt/whatever because the sector is 1 unit higher than the max i can walk over..."

Edited February 10 by Aeddes666

[NeoWorm]

There are levels that disable jumping and crouching without it actually breaking anything.

But as people said, just override it in GZDooM's options. You just have to do it for each mod again. 

[Ravendesk]

4 hours ago, Aeddes666 said:

Also, i think that's adding jump and crouch force the mapper to be more creative.

No more "damn, can't reach that key/healt/whatever because the sector is 1 unit higher than the max i can walk over..."

I also think adding idclip forces the mapper to be more creative. No more "damn, can't reach that key/healt/whatever because the sector is 1 impassable line further than the max i can walk to..."

 

Mappers will actually have to place walkover linedefs inside of glides and on high 1px platforms and come up with other clever methods to still make progression challenging to find. Plus they can now place important progression switches in the void and not be constrained by players not being able to access it.

 

Honestly, playing with jumping and crouching is so 2000s, this old school play style should just die already and give way to noclip gaming which is the future.

[Captain red pants]

16 hours ago, Kinsie said:

 

Alternatively, sv_nocrouch 1 and sv_nojump 1

Yes, I worked that much out from reading your original post, but what I asked for was a mod that did that because it would save me the effort of fiddling with console commands or the options menu every time I wanted to swap over from maps I wanted to jump in over ones I didn't.

Again, I use Doom mod launcher for most of my wad playing and just having a mod that disables jumping and crouching would be the most convenient for my setup.

[Shepardus]

4 minutes ago, Captain red pants said:

Yes, I worked that much out from reading your original post, but what I asked for was a mod that did that because it would save me the effort of fiddling with console commands or the options menu every time I wanted to swap over from maps I wanted to jump in over ones I didn't.

Again, I use Doom mod launcher for most of my wad playing and just having a mod that disables jumping and crouching would be the most convenient for my setup.

If the idea is to have a file you can select/deselect in your launcher, you can just put the console commands in a text file with a .cfg extension and load that.

[Aeddes666]

10 hours ago, Ravendesk said:

I also think adding idclip forces the mapper to be more creative. No more "damn, can't reach that key/healt/whatever because the sector is 1 impassable line further than the max i can walk to..."

 

Mappers will actually have to place walkover linedefs inside of glides and on high 1px platforms and come up with other clever methods to still make progression challenging to find. Plus they can now place important progression switches in the void and not be constrained by players not being able to access it.

 

Honestly, playing with jumping and crouching is so 2000s, this old school play style should just die already and give way to noclip gaming which is the future.

If you consider idclip the same as jump and crouch, i have nothing to tell sir.

Edited February 11 by Aeddes666

[MFG38]

On 2/10/2024 at 6:26 AM, doomlayman said:

What to do if a mod disables jumping and/or crouching?

 

What you do is accept that fact and play by the rules that the mapper(s) set.

[Klear]

3 hours ago, Aeddes666 said:

If you consider idclip the same as jump and crouch, i have nothing to tell sir.

 

There's nothing shameful about using idclip.

[ducon]

On 2/10/2024 at 5:26 AM, doomlayman said:

What to do if a mod disables jumping and/or crouching?

Just play with only your keyboard?

[bofu]

On 2/10/2024 at 12:42 PM, Aeddes666 said:

If you want jump and crouch, go ahead. Do what you like and have fun.

 

Also, i think that's adding jump and crouch force the mapper to be more creative.

No more "damn, can't reach that key/healt/whatever because the sector is 1 unit higher than the max i can walk over..."

 

You know why people disable jumping and crouching in their maps? Because some idiot on the idgames reviews who only ever plays things on GZDoom with the default settings is going to give their painstakingly crafted WAD a one-star review saying "lol 2 easy i could jump right out of everything" if they don't. Wad authors are under no obligation to design maps for optional gameplay mechanics introduced in one or two specific source ports. There are plenty of excellent maps designed with jumping and crouching in mind, so if it's a dealbreaker, play those instead.

 

Otherwise, it's unreasonable to expect people to design to your tastes, so you can either skip it or find some workaround like the ones detailed here, with the caveat that you might softlock yourself or trivialize parts of the map and that it's your fault, not the author's, if that happens.

Edited February 11 by bofu

[dasho]

I personally don't believe in force-disabling a user's preferences in regards to jumping/crouching, but it's been pretty tempting as I get Obsidian "bug reports" that basically say a section of the map is broken when they were able to jump into it and then can't get out because they broke the progression sequence (for reference, the map layout does not consider at all that the player can jump or crouch).

[Edward850]

9 hours ago, Aeddes666 said:

If you consider idclip the same as jump and crouch, i have nothing to tell sir.

Indeed you don't, as he 100% correctly identified the problem with your original statement. If jumping and crouching are disabled (or if anything non existent, because surprise not every mapset is made for God damn gzdoom) then that makes them objectively against the rules of play, just like any other cheat.

[Stabbey]

 I once got  a bug report from someone who used GZ Doom's rocket jumping to get to a place they weren't supposed to get to, then complained they were stuck. Now, okay, that did help me make the intended progression easier, but there are definitely good reasons to restrict jumping and crouching. I have a test map and found that Doomguy can jump like 64 units vertically and get to like 33 units from crouching. If you have to allow that amount of distance on behalf of the user, it can drastically change how a map plays. Allowing jumping and crouching either means allowing users to break the map, or it severely restricts what the author can do.

 

The one I really dislike is being told not to use freelook. That's the one I just cannot take.

Edited February 11 by Stabbey

[Aeddes666]

1 hour ago, bofu said:

you might softlock yourself or trivialize parts of the map and that it's your fault, not the author's, if that happens.

Exactly.
It's fault of who do this. Not my or your fault.

 

The guy just asked a question, he didn't ask to teach him how to play...

 

But if he does something he shouldn't do, and complains to the map author, I agree that he is wrong. It's his fault, not mine or yours.

Edited February 11 by Aeddes666

[Xaser]

Brand-new players who aren't familiar with the game aren't going to know that jumping and crouching can break levels. They're options right there in the menu; what sort of game would give you a bindable control and then expect you to not use it? On the surface, that's crazy talk. :P

Technically speaking, the best solution to this whole deal would've been to make jumping and crouching features that maps would opt into (i.e. be disabled unless MAPINFO turns them on) -- but that ship sailed twenty-plus years ago.

The second-best solution is what GZDoom does currently. Allow MAPINFO to switch it off, but give the user the ability to turn it on anyway if they know what they're doing or just wanna say "fuck it, let me jump dammit".

All that said... this discussion has been done to death about six trillion times already. The current way of doing stuff is Fine, about the best it can be without starting to introduce breaking changes, and nobody wants that.

[DNSKILL5]

Autorun your way to the exit. 

[camper]

If we are talking about bans in gameplay, then what about the ban on running? It seems that no single port prohibits it.
Let me explain a little, I wouldn’t always want to rush around like a Formula 1 car in a deathmatch.

[esselfortium]

48 minutes ago, camper said:

If we are talking about bans in gameplay, then what about the ban on running? It seems that no single port prohibits it.
Let me explain a little, I wouldn’t always want to rush around like a Formula 1 car in a deathmatch.

Why would there be a "ban" on running? Running was a standard feature in the original exe, and it was possible to even enable autorun by editing the cfg file. Jumping and crouching were never part of Doom until they were added by certain sourceports years later, and the vast majority of levels were designed without them in mind.

[ObserverOfTime]

All this talking about cheating... In a single-player game! Play the game any way you want to, cheat your way through everything if that's your jam. It's cool. Single player games are for your enjoyment only, so do what feels right to you. If you want to jump in a wad that has it disabled, just enable it and play the way you want. That's all there is to it.

 

But.. And this is a big but. By doing so you forfeit the right to converse with others who don't cheat or play with unintended mechanics like you had the same experience going through the levels! That's just common sense.

 

I get that some people are habitual cheaters and that's the way they enjoy playing, either because they have more fun that way or because they can't beat it normally, again, nothing wrong with that. In single-player games this is all fair game. This goes for gameplay mods too to some extent. Someone playing through doom with Brutal Doom, for example, is going to have a drastically different experience, and comparing that to someone's vanilla gameplay experience is pretty disingenuous imho.

 

Once you play against others, online, compete or take part in a challenge involving others though, cheating is the lowest of low things a person could possibly do. It is downright maidenless behaviour. I said my piece, let's leave it at that.