Daylight District | A 7-level vanilla episode!

[DreadWanderer]

1 hour ago, Bobby :D said:

We can't even release the projects we have been working on for a while now, a sequel to either of those is so far down the pipeline it might come up the other end. Maybe in a few years we'll do some sort of spiritual successor or something, but we want to do some of the original wad concepts we've been working on and off for many years first, so sit tight :D

 

Aye thanks for the reply, looking forward to it.

[Ludi]

3 hours ago, DreadWanderer said:

 

...can we get a sequel to Vigor or Pagodia? 

 

Please?! 😄

 

[Redacted]

Edited March 31 by Ludi

[taviow]

I'll take this opportunity to post a video of the secret fight in Map03.

 

This is a great fight because you have just enough space to overcome the imps, and the fact that you only have the RL means that you need to carefully consider your movement throughout the fight. For dicey situations it's probably best to use the chaingun here instead of the shotgun like I did (that was a bad idea), but even with this mistake I managed to succeed in my 2nd attempt.

 

If the map had given you a plasma gun, I think that would have severely diminished this fight and also the final fight. In fact I see a ton of depth in how the encounters were constructed. The weapons you have were selected for a reason, and the fights were designed around that, to complicate things for you with the RL by constricting your space and demanding a bit more from the player than usual in that you need to navigate these environments correctly (without blowing yourself up).

 

The fight also gives you the way out halfway through, so technically it's even easy to cheese it should you need to do that, but I chose not to because it shouldn't be necessary if you approach it the right way.

 

Anyway, enough rambling, here's the video:

 

 

 

 

[Maribo]

Split.

 

Do not continue this conversational line, thanks.

[KevvyLava]

22 hours ago, Bobby :D said:

First note, funny thing, I did some playtesting and a little project management for Doom Refired a few years ago! I'm happy that team has gotten on good footing!

Second off, I think that while Squonker does do a more "modern" style of design namely influenced by Alm and his progenitors, I think there's more than enough in the department of wads that deliver low-key, out of the norm, and esoteric experiences. That's not to say we don't ever do something out of the ordinary; for example, Tetanus has a good amount of maps that explore a sense of constraint and subtlety contrasting with the immense and explosive maps, like AD's Map 5 or Skronk's Map 9 (both of which are some of the longest maps in the set).

Thirdly, the whole "artistic" merit thing is completely relative and has no place in a conversation about aesthetic complaints, you only get as much as you put in when it comes to appreciation. If you appreciate the low key stuff through caverns, that's cool! If you don't go for straight up gameplay wads, that's cool too! Just don't get in a twist about the "worth" of either of these (unless you want to go Kantian on my ass and start using pure reasoning for why a Doom WAD has the value of Walmart paintings of christmas cabins).

As a middle ground statement, Daylit District is itself a sequel to a gameplay heavy, minimalist detail wad. If we did something like a sequel to Vigor or Pagodia we'd definitely place a huge emphasis on aesthetic exploration!

 

Thanks for the comments/recommendations!

[Ludi]

I'll be honest, I wasn't a fan of MAP03 when I was testing it, but it was my fault. I was doing the fight wrong, and once I solved the puzzle it was really rewarding. I remember getting tilted in VC when I was testing even though I was obviously doing the fight incorrectly.

 

I think it's one of the best squonker maps ever, honestly. It's really grown on me

 

Shoutouts to T. Will and shoutouts to Bobby for showing me what a clown I was lmao

[Stabbey]

So are these supposed to be played continuously, or was the SSG left out of MAP 03? Because my only tool for some of these encounters is the RL which is impractical due to this thing called "splash damage."

 

EDIT: I eventually did beat MAP 03, but that final encounter... considering that it's a fight which only has one viable strategy, it shouldn't take close to 30 attempts to beat even when you're starting with 186% HP/160% [EDIT: 180% HP/169%] Mega Armor (And that's only from the very tough secret fight). Overtuned.

 

EDIT 2: MAP 03 has no cell ammo in it. I think giving the player a BFG either openly or in a secret available before that fight would do a LOT to make that fight feel fairer and more manageable. With no other cell ammo, it's just one shot which wouldn't do anything against the horde, but it would allow for taking out an Arch-vile.

Edited April 1 by Stabbey
fight beaten.

[apichatpong]

I played HNTR, I played continuously and... I really liked map 03.

[DRON12261]

Played it now. Visually it looks very good, a green version of Moonlit District (I really liked it back in the day). But there are problems with gameplay, namely with some fights, which unfortunately often start to go into a constant loading of saves and grind on a lucky archvile blunt. The final battles of MAP02 and especially MAP03 are clearly weak, in MAP02 3 archviles appear when the player has neither HP nor ammo, in MAP03 the arena does not correspond to the battle taking place on it, there is no cover from the archviles and you have to grind and guess "the right lucky variant of passing". And as it seems to me there are an excessive amount of archviles used here that only hurt and drag out gameplay. If you cut out some of them, wad will not lose, but on the contrary will gain more in gameplay flow. While still Release Candidate, I think it would be worth reconsidering in the direction of a small rebalance of the combat. Now stopped at 5 map, while waiting for a full release. Good luck, I'm excited.

Edited April 1 by DRON12261

[Stabbey]

All right map set is finished. I played on UV, pistol-starting all maps.

 

MAP 01:

Spoiler

A fairly sedate opening map which is slightly tight on ammo, but manageable. The second secret seems to be excessively obscure, as even looking carefully around everywhere for like 10 minutes – and even using IDDT – I couldn’t find one.

 

MAP 02:

Spoiler

Much more spicy. The Rocket Launcher fight was a lot more obnoxious and annoying than I liked. The final fight was brutal, but doable with a certain strategy: Instead of killing the Cyberdemon first, leaving the player helpless against the Arch-Viles, I got the Cyberdemon to attack the Arch-Viles, distracting them enough to let me thin the hordes and get the cell packs.

 

MAP 03: (EDITED 04-02)

Spoiler

 

Too difficult for this position in the mapset. Later maps were much easier. The megasphere secret was pretty annoying and frustrating. It’s possible, sure, but it feels like the map authors of the pack tested it so much they figured it out and then forgot to consider people who didn’t have the experience of repeatedly play-testing the map. EIf nothing else, I would put teleporter destination pads in there so you can know where to expect teleporting enemies to appear. The combination of rocket launcher, tight spaces, and UNPREDICTABLE teleport locations definitely is on the side of frustrating rather than challenging.

 

The really obnoxious part is the ending fight. The map has no cell weapons and no SSG, leaving you to take on two Archviles and a pile of Revenants in an arena which has no real cover – trying to take cover gets you cornered by the horde, so it’s all a matter of getting the luck to take out the upper Arch-Vile before you’re cornered. Even with the megasphere and 180% HP/169% Armor (blue), it took me like 30 tries to manage it. Perhaps remove the ability of the Revenants to teleport onto the upper part, as that’s what makes it very RNG.

 

To specifically address myolden's point, the strategy he uses in that video is not some kind of obvious magic bullet that everyone else somehow never thought of. That tactic is unreliable because of how easy it is for the Revenants which teleport in up top to box you into the upper area's cover while you have the rocket launcher out, and then you're fucked.

 

MAP04:

Spoiler

At first I thought the opening was very spicy, but after a few attempts I beat it and discovered the chaingun at the start. Going for that first changed it from very spicy to “reasonable”. Not super tough fights after that. The one at the end was a little spicy, but not too unreasonable.

 

MAP05: (EDITED 04-02)

Spoiler

A tough opening, but there’s enough flexibility to allow for different approaches to be tried. Only one rad suit which was partly hidden, which I saved until ready to go for the secret plasma rifle. The fight after the red key door wasn't too bad for me, I cleared space with the provided rockets. Although I do think a secret shootable switch to raise ledges out of the slime for all the goodies in there would be nice, because the player could already be struggling with health by then.

 

MAP06: (EDITED 04-02)

Spoiler

An interesting puzzle opening which relies on using monsters as shields and dodging shots to provoke infighting. The Red Key Door fight was quite difficult,but I cleared space by killing the Imp/Rev cave first. I wish there was some armor or a soulsphere or something. The whole level feels too miserly with supplies, especially after you enter the Red Key Door. That's a big fight coming after a rough start and the player isn't given much in the way of defense at all: That one Green Armor from the start is expected to last you all the way until after the Mancubi are released from the pit past the Red Key Door pit fight, which has another one. That's an awful lot of punishing combat to handle for a single Green Armor. There isn't even a single health or armor bonus on the map for small boosts or replenishing.

 

The first Blue Key Door fight was a little annoying, I eventually used plasma (luckily I had some left), and I got increasingly annoyed at the lack of health past the point of no return, as I was down to 6% by the BFG, but there was at least a megasphere. The climax of the fight had an obnoxious number of Arch-Viles, but judicious use of the BFG cleared enough to rocket down the rest.

 

EDIT: I think I can agree with cannonball: Delete the two Arch-Viles at the start of the BFG fight. They require careful precision to take out at a time when you don't have the space or attention to take the time needed. In addition, not only is the fight already challenging without them, but you then dump another dozen or so into the main pit anyway for the second half. I'd get rid of some of those as well, or at least add a refresher of armor or health, because the megasphere you got at the start will be gone and there's a high chance the Soul Sphere will be as well.

 

MAP07: (EDITED 04-02)

Spoiler

Surprisingly, this entire map was far easier than both MAP03 and MAP06. I just died a couple of times, but once  I realized I needed to lure the enemies to clear enough of a path at the start, the entire rest of the level was smooth sailing. I didn't spot the BFG at the start, but even if I knew it was there, I still would have run away, The first time I got out, I ran and found the AV room with the Invulnerability, and used that to clear the main fight. After that, there's not much challenge left to the map. Most of the Imp/Rev fight in the Red Key pit is skippable thanks to the lift on the far side, but even if it wasn't it's not too tough. This map was far more generous with supplies (noticeably health and armor) than MAP 06.

 

Overall, there are wild variations in generosity of items and defense provided from level to level, which means it's hard to predict which levels will be generous with supplies and which are miserly. It's not a smooth curve.

Edited April 2 by Stabbey
added another suggestion to MAP 03 and more comments

[cannonball]

Well I thought I would give this a try;

 

Map01

Fair to say that expectations should be set from the get-go here, there are a surprisingly high number of archviles in play here. But you also get the rocket launcher and plasma gun as you proceed. Shells/bullets are a little tight, but that is more an excuse to uncork the heavier weapons. There was a monster blocking line in the watery trench towards the end of the map that felt a bit odd as it didn't seem to serve an obvious purpose and of course made some of the monsters look a little silly. Otherwise a really good opening map.

 

Map02

Ooo secret BFG on map02... oh wait... oh... I see where this could be needed....

In fairness I think those who play this blind may hit a death or two before thinking that they should explore everything apart from the intended progression, after that the map because a really fun experience where you should have plenty of heavy artillery to beat back the opposition that includes the first cyber at the end of the map. This was really fun to play.

Worth noting that the final fights plays much better if you play aggressively, just jumping and and stir up the hornets nest, that is after all my Cybie's purpose here right? :)

 

Map03

I can understand some of the salty feelings towards this one. 

The start is fine, I guess, though I do question the use of revenants on the cliff side and the mancubi teleporting in when you pick up the berserk. I would have put the revenants in the water and replaced the pair on the hillside with a single mancubus (Less issue with rockets missing when you do get the rocket launcher and the revenants are good boxing practice).

The issue I have comes beyond this, many of the fights feel a little clunky and there are two occaisions where infinite height can cause issues, both involve fodder that probably doesn't even need to be there. So there are two big fights, the one at the end and the secret fight and both as I described above feel very clunky and often require too much on lady luck to beat. The end fight tunrs into a bit of a mess, especially as cover is taken away, I can see what you need to do, you need to hold the high ground and then face the monsters at ground level, but things seem to go wrong far too easily, I can't help but feel like this fights needs a rethink. There is also the secret fight, the big issue here that it is poorly choreographed, these types of fight can be done well but here you end up in a position where things tend to teleport randomly (I would mark the spawn locations if possible) and of course the rewards is placed out of reach on a time and the rest of the health and ammo is one unlucky teleporting monster away from being unobtainable, like LVENdead, I had to return to this fight after beating the rest of the map and finding the soulsphere to beat this. God help you if you stumble upon this with low health.

This map is perfectly salvageable with some tweaks here and there, but in its current state and I can understand some of the anger towards this, there is difficult and there are situations where player control kind of goes out of the window and in this one I can see that line being crossed a couple of times.

 

Map04

This one was good fun, I guess the only point of contention is potentially the final fight, which can feel very claustrophobic and caused most of my deaths. Oddly this one felt like it could have been placed in the map02 slot without too much hassle given the larger amount of fodder in this one compared to the heavy hitters seen in map02 and 03. Probably my favourite map so far.

 

Map05

A little too mean spirited, like a triple distilled plutonia map. The map eases up a little after the start (Emphasis on little), the trap beyond the red bars that opens up the way to the yellow is is also nasty and best dealt with by fleeing and hiding in the tunnel that allows access the the ledge the arachnotron sits on. This is another map that decides to forgo the SSG and unlike Map03 where its inclusion would have mattered squat, I must confess that the SSG would've have been useful given that the rocket launcher doesn't have ample ammo and quite often the odds are not in your favour to use it.

The map is sufficiently tough, but probably a little too obnoxious for my liking.

 

Map06

Torn on this one, at time the maps wants to let loose and you can play aggressively and at times the gameplay slows seemingly to a crawl. The start is nuts but once you get your bearings it isn't too bad (I was worried about using the mastermind as a meat shield whilst I chipped away at the imp crowd but this worked well. The outdoor fight felt surprisingly under-equipped for such a large fight, you get the plasma gun but it felt that I had very little resources to deal with everything and the best bet was to head straight for the blue key and let the mosh pit sort itself out.

The area behind the blue door was the worst part of the map, the preamble before the fight fight is slow and grindy and not fun at all (The fact that the prominent ammo given is shells say it all), the end fight is pretty on the nose and isn't subtle in the slightest, you need to save sufficient cells for the archvile round at the end and be good with your aim.

This one has some great moments and then some moments that are not so good. Sometimes there are some fights where leaving the archviles out may have been a better idea (The outdoor area and perhaps the initial part of the final fight), they create more gameplay problems than anything else with little reward.

 

Map07

Well it is a slaughter map, it too me a while to spot the BFG and from there you can carve out a path through the mayhem. Once the madness has died down the map kind of loses all of its energy. The red key fight is pretty tame and unfortunately you will probably run out of resources for the archviles that are revealed in the watery trench, but that is fine because you can skip everything entirely by not using the red door in that location and retrace your steps to essentially bypass the ambush.

In the end I think his set deserved a better ending, it is all out chaos for the first couple of minutes and then gives up the fight. In short this needs some refinement.

 

Overall - this mapset felt a little all over the place, some maps feel very attrition heavy, others let you cut loose and some manage both in the same map. The difficulty also see-saws a bit where Map03 is significantly harder than the surrounding maps, though Map06 is probably the hardest map in the set. There is fun to be had with Daylight district, but on the other hand there are some quite jarring moments that can sour the experience, the best maps were 01, 02 and 04. Of all the maps, Map03 probably needs some addressing, I thin map06 could be tweaked here and there to make the experience smoother and the final map probably needs a look into because skipping the final fight entirely was probably not the author's intention (This move was helped by have little ammo after the red key fight).

 

Edited April 2 by cannonball

[Clippy]

@Yugiboy85 absolutely amazing map, the pace and flow was perfect and exhilarating - genuinely finished with a smile on my face

 

Kudos

 

I'll try to make better words in the future, will be back later - why isnt this map sooner lol? Well it did work as a nice break after the last one haha

 

alright g2g I think the gas station is serving pizza now

 

 

 

Edited April 7 by Clippy

[Clippy]

hey guys happy look at the sun day, belated birthday

 

Still processing to HD but posting now so I dont miss looking at the sun with a bunch of other ppl looking at the sun

 

epic map, that opening requires a lot of patience and figuring and trying over and over again, almost 12 minutes starting this thing and then I got going with mostly good results. I like at least the hardest stuff is front loaded, getting some ground is a good feeling after such an evily crafted opening anguish

 

Are you guys anti SSG or something? 

 

good times getting there

 

 

[Clippy]

lol, of course, now it finishes processing

 

have a good day everyone

[Bobby :D]

8 hours ago, Clippy said:

Are you guys anti SSG or something?

Super Shotgunning killed my Grandma!

 

[DreadWanderer]

I blame Civvie's factually correct statement that it's "absolutely 100% perfect, and anyone who says otherwise is wrong". So might as well remove it.

 

 

:(

[Clippy]

Made it to map 6 - kudos @myolden

 

You guys got me so freaked out about this map I made sure to play it when I was extra ready, unlike map 3. So being in the right mindset I think I did quite decently. Played this morning before getting rained out on scenic drive. I think I struggled the most with early encounters which were meant to be easier, and got very fortunate circumstances in later harder encounters.

 

Over-all I do not declare any BS on this map, its super well crafted, well strategically placed monsters and resources, it all felt very doable and fair - just some trial and error and figuring how best to approach some combat scenarios. 

 

After all the hype I hope I played the version of this map that others said was quite challenging, this being RC3 I hope I didn't get a toned down version cause I really wanted to experience what all the hubbub was about. 

 

Ultimately I felt very good and triumphant overcoming this map on pistol start and am very glad I made it here. One more to go, will be back later

 

take care everyone

 

 

[Clippy]

Hey there I made it to the finish line

 

 

This time I had some buddies show up to watch me fail at the start of this map and then later discover the invulnerability which would have been a complete Game Changer

 

After the video and knowing what the strategy was I did another quick run at the start and yeah grabbing the invulnerability is the thing to do but impossible to know when you're blind but still a good feat to pull it off without it

 

Also that thanks for playing map has to be the best little title closing map of all time I really liked that disco dance floor who did that one haha good times

Edited May 1 by Clippy

[EduardoAndFriends]

13 hours ago, Clippy said:

Hey there I made it to the finish line

 

 

This time I had some buddies show up to watch me fail at the start of this map and then later discover the invulnerability which would have been a complete Game Changer

 

After the video and knowing what the strategy was I did another quick run at the start and yeah grabbing the invulnerability is the thing to do but impossible to know when you're blind but still a good feat to pull it off without it

 

Also that thanks for playing map has to be the best little title closing map of all time I really liked that disco dance floor who did that one haha good times

Boots. With the fur.

[ZeMystic]

Apologies for the wait! This wad has been finalized on idgames!