Is hiding a secret area within a secret area a good idea?

[BUYXRAYS]

So essentially, my map has a secret where if you enter a door, you get a berserk pack. In this secret room, there also is a switch that allows you to enter the outside area.

Is this a good idea? Or should I hide the switch somewhere else.

[Novaseer]

It's not the most common practice, but I personally see no issues with it.

Hell, Romero did it from time to time.

[kwc]

Whether or not it's a good idea can be considered on a case-by-case basis. 
It sounds like fun. I'd encourage you to consider leaving some kind of hint for the nested secret as well.

It's really up to you, and you won't truly know if it works unless you test it. (and even then, you'll be getting subjective responses)

Edited February 13 by kwc

[Stabbey]

As long as it follows the same recommended guideline that all secrets should follow: there should be some sort of "tell" to the secret's existence.

 

Such as showing the existence of the secret from some angle (or having it on a raised platform so the mystery is how to lower it), having a different or misaligned texture, special lines on the automap, that sort of thing.

 

As long as there's a tell, no problem having multiple secrets inside one secret. Doom 1 Episode 1 did it a few times.

[Andrea Rovenski]

Why not go deeper? (yes)

[DoomGappy]

I have a fun memory of playing @Clippy's microdose and searching for a secret within a secret within a secret. It's the gift that keeps on giving if you implement it well. 

[Steve D]

Yes, by all means. You can have a secret and then a super-secret accessed from within it. This is also known as "chained secrets", especially if you pile them on -- 3, 4, perhaps even more.

[JoeyKelastiof]

It's a great idea, It's been used in the iwads a few times. I always double check secrets in case that happens.

[Jello]

As long as it's done tastefully, it's a great idea. Hiding a secret inside a secret always feels like a second little Christmas when you find it. If it's not completely obtuse I've always fun when I find a secret within one. There are a few times in the original levels that had that, and there are times in Duke and Blood, and plenty of other games that I can't think of right now, so yes, go for it. It's like finding a hidden egg on Easter morning, and you think you're really clever for finding it, then you look up and there's another egg hidden above you, and you feel like God. They're fun.

Edited February 13 by Jello

[bofu]

Doom players have gotten kind of spoiled when it comes to secrets. Wolf 3D hid secrets inside secrets all the time (though it failed on the "making secrets intuitive" level). You'd be surprised how unexpected a secret inside a secret can be, but as long as the secrets aren't completely obscure, it can also be incredibly gratifying to a player.

[roadworx]

hell ye, secrets inside secrets are really fun! i wish they were done more tbh - especially ones where the second secret is actually a shortcut to a later area, so you can skip parts of the map

[Amaruψ]

Go all out like Shawn Green.

 

Put an entire staircase of secrets in a secret. 

[BeachThunder]

It's a fun concept...as long as it doesn't end up like the Aardwolf Maze :|

[Pechudin]

Fractal secrets - every secret has in it hidden at least 2 more secrets, recursively.

[BeachThunder]

3 hours ago, Amaruψ said:

Go all out like Shawn Green.

 

Put an entire staircase of secrets in a secret. 

Has anyone made a music level like this? i.e. using a Boom conveyor belt to move the player through secret sectors which play the secret sound effect to the beat of the music.

[Pechudin]

17 minutes ago, BeachThunder said:

Has anyone made a music level like this? i.e. using a Boom conveyor belt to move the player through secret sectors which play the secret sound effect to the beat of the music.

EVERYBODY DANCE NOW but with the Zdoom's secret announcement sound.

[Stabbey]

8 hours ago, bofu said:

Doom players have gotten kind of spoiled when it comes to secrets. Wolf 3D hid secrets inside secrets all the time (though it failed on the "making secrets intuitive" level). You'd be surprised how unexpected a secret inside a secret can be, but as long as the secrets aren't completely obscure, it can also be incredibly gratifying to a player.

 

Blake Stone ( A Wolf 3D clone) did this a lot more. That game, unlike Wolf 3D, gave the players the courtesy of an automap and the levels were all confined to a box so you could tell from a glance whether it was feasible for additional secrets inside secrets.

[rita remton]

reminds me of clippy's fortress of secrecy, an awesome map containing 100 secrets. if i recall correctly, i only managed to find 21 :P

 

[Clippy]

15 hours ago, DoomGappy said:

I have a fun memory of playing @Clippy's microdose and searching for a secret within a secret within a secret. It's the gift that keeps on giving if you implement it well. 

 

Thanks buddy ive done this often and to insane degrees 

 

Secrets have always been a fascinatio of mine with doom 

 

I love to find new ways to hide em and hide em in em etc

 

A map on topic might be this. 100 secrets all documented and entire map is optional lol 

 

https://doomwiki.org/wiki/MAP11:_Nothing_to_see_here..._(Clippyworld:_An_Unexpected_Journey)

Edited February 13 by Clippy

[Cruduxy Pegg]

Not a bad idea. (I am very terrible at secrets hunts though, missing over half the secrets in all Ion Fury maps level of bad)

[Amaruψ]

I mean, a majority of Ion Fury's secrets are super well hidden, so I don't think it's your fault.

[CrocMagnum]

I like secrets within secrets, finding them feels super satisfying.  

Speaking of which, 'Dusk' does this masterfully. 

 

[TheMagicMushroomMan]

[Stupid Bunny]

Secrets in secrets are my favorite. Secrets within secrets that use keys that aren’t secrets are even better. Finding a secret key that gives access to a secret within a secret…a thing of beauty that

 

Maps that are like 70% secrets by area are the love of my life

 

Sincerely, someone who sucks at both finding and implementing secrets

[HeatedChocolate]

Map that just consists of secrets upon secrets all hidden within one secret room. Rest of the level is just fluff, the real meat is in the secretception room.

[The Royal We]

1) I've never seen anyone complain about the secret within the secret within the secret in E1M5. I even find it charming

 

2) In more modern maps, I also like secrets within secrets, although today you have to do something more interesting than in the original games to attract attention.

 

3) Undermining secrets within secrets would mean undermining wonderful maps like the@Clippy’s one, already mentioned here.

 

4) I remember hearing more than once that TNT map 04 is possibly the best map from the megawad. And I agree. And the fun of it is in the secrets within secrets.

 

5) @mouldy’s “Going Down” is a wonderful megawad in its own right. In the context of this conversation, try playing the map "Secrets and lies". Your idea of secrets within secrets will be greatly subverted, I promise.

 

6) As far as secrets within secrets are concerned, I did a lot of that in the first map I made, The Mauve Zone, but I didn't execute it as well as I should have and a lot of people ended up missing parts of the map that took me days to make hahaha

Edited February 14 by The Royal We

[Maximum Matt]

As long as there's no keys/required switches/progression, go nuts and do a Russian nesting doll of Secret-ception, it's all wall humping and discovery at the end of the day.

I especially like the secret chain in E2M2 that also has a bonus TF-effect on one of the doors

[Gifty]

*PAGING BLAKE STONE TO THIS THREAD. BLAKE STONE. PLEASE COME TO THIS THREAD.*

[TheHambourgeois]

it's great, imo