Quake 2 remaster (IS great!)

[Scottier681]

Am I alone in thinking quake 2 is really great? I tried to like Q1 better( I do love it) but I really love everything about Q2 from the levels, weapons, music, expansions, Q264, etc. any ideas/opinions why Q2 gets a bad rap? I don't see why but maybe others out there do. Who else thinks it's a great title?

[TheMagicMushroomMan]

4 hours ago, Scottier681 said:

any ideas/opinions why Q2 gets a bad rap

Just because most people perfer the first one doesn't mean Quake 2 ever had a "bad rap". It was and still is a critically acclaimed FPS, in terms of everything from its single-player levels, multiplayer, music, graphics... the worst I've heard anyone here say about it is that they don't like it because they don't like the theme, especially compared to the first one. Anyone saying it's actually a bad game, especially if we're talking about when it was released, is probably being melodramatic on purpose.

 

There's no reason to try to like Quake 1 more than Quake 2, don't let other people influence how you feel about games and stuff that way my man (although I'm guessing you mean that you're just trying to see things from another prespective, which can be a good thing). They're both great games, and I think it mainly comes down to the military theme more than anything else. The first one had a more unique theme, but that doesn't automatically make it better. It also had the benefit of being, you know, the first. I think the switch-up threw some people off, but these days the games are viewed with a certain disconnect between the two.

 

Have you ever tried Quake 4?

Edited February 25 by TheMagicMushroomMan

[mrthejoshmon]

Quake 2 both does and doesn't get a bad rap.

 

Quake 2, critically was absolutely loved and to this day remains one of PC Gamer's highest rated games of all time (96/100, only surpassed in recent memory by Baldur's Gate 3 with 97).

 

However, a few loud fans have been shitting on it since release, whilst not a majority opinion certain ones who hold it have definitely made sure you heard all about it which skews the perception a bit.

 

I have always loved Quake 2 yet was also under the impression Quake 2 was hated, it was not, you were merely told it was, people who love Quake 2 rarely say so, a few who hate always will tell you.

Edited February 25 by mrthejoshmon

[hybridial]

If you like something, you like something, who cares what others think.

 

I have fervent opinions about a lot of things, including some of the most critically acclaimed ever not being very good

 

But regardless, if a game just feels like a great experience to you, let no one else tell you otherwise. 

[Scottier681]

Never played Q3 or Q4. I like the classics (doom 1, 2, FD, Doom 64, Q1, Q2). Although I do play a lot of modern games (Doom 2016, Eternal, some CODs), I still go back to the classics. And Q2 does so much for me. Plus the Q2 remaster has so much content and historical stuff to rummage through including playable levels. I cannot deny how much it "feels right" to me. Much like the original Dooms did and still do. I'm glad people feel some of the same about Q2.

[Murdoch]

Quake II is perfectly fine. I get why some people don't like it, and prefer the original's darker, quirkier nature. But the interesting thing about Quake II is, for me, how much the music helps it. Honestly, it's like this.

 

Me playing Quake II without music: do de do shooting the bad aliens hm hm hm hmmm

Me playing Quake II with music: WHO'S NEXT?! I WILL KILL YOU ALL YOU BASTARDS!! EVERY LAST ONE OF YOU!

And I am only slightly exaggerating for comic effect.

Edited February 26 by Murdoch

[BGreener]

On 2/25/2024 at 12:45 AM, Scottier681 said:

Am I alone in thinking quake 2 is really great? I tried to like Q1 better( I do love it) but I really love everything about Q2 from the levels, weapons, music, expansions, Q264, etc. any ideas/opinions why Q2 gets a bad rap? I don't see why but maybe others out there do. Who else thinks it's a great title?

You are far from alone in thinking that these days. The new overhaul it received from Nightdive got a lot of people to appreciate it in a new way. It’s great to see.

 

If I have to point towards any “bad rep”, I’d say that the basegame enemy AI had a hard time hooking people during this “ye olde shooter revival”. The remaster remedies this wonderfully across all campaigns.

[Professor Hastig]

Isn't this a bit weird? For Doom it seems even minor deviations are not acceptable for many of its players but here it is fine that the remaster somehow makes this a completely different game?

 

I really like Quake 2, but I am also very attached to its original gameplay mechanics so the remaster is not really that enjoyable for me without some mods that restore some of the original AI.

 

[D4NUK1]

1 hour ago, Professor Hastig said:

Isn't this a bit weird? For Doom it seems even minor deviations are not acceptable for many of its players but here it is fine that the remaster somehow makes this a completely different game?

 

 

I don't really think so, as many years ago Doom had a popularity not only for levels wad but gameplays wads that do a great change's of Doom Gameplays, even now more de hacked wads that's changes some aspects of some weapon or enemy's or include others enemy's more alike for the .wad feels more accepted 

[BGreener]

1 hour ago, Professor Hastig said:

Isn't this a bit weird? For Doom it seems even minor deviations are not acceptable for many of its players but here it is fine that the remaster somehow makes this a completely different game?

 

I really like Quake 2, but I am also very attached to its original gameplay mechanics so the remaster is not really that enjoyable for me without some mods that restore some of the original AI.

 

I’m under the impression most hold Doom’s game formula in high regard only after the additions provided through 2. It might be more appropriate to compare Quake 2 to Doom 1, how both started, and came to be improved: Doom 2 would help realize the enemy roster, Quake 2 expansions would help realize the enemy AI.

 

I also don’t feel the remaster makes the game feel “entirely” different (although some of the lighting certainly feels different), and I still enjoy playing it through other ports as much as Nightdive’s.

[Professor Hastig]

16 hours ago, BGreener said:

I’m under the impression most hold Doom’s game formula in high regard only after the additions provided through 2. It might be more appropriate to compare Quake 2 to Doom 1, how both started, and came to be improved: Doom 2 would help realize the enemy roster, Quake 2 expansions would help realize the enemy AI.

I wouldn't have minded the changes in Q2, had they come as a switchable option. What really bothers me here is that they just threw out the original code entirely with no chance to go back. Thanks to some enthusiasts that problem got addressed, but it's a problem that should never have happened in a remaster product for an old game. The thing here always is, some people like such changes, but other really and utterly despise them, and just dismissing that part of the potential customer base is not good. It's not the lighting here that's the issue but the changes to monster AI and weapon balance - this what I mean with making it into a "completely different game".

 

Compare that to the attitude of some people here to classify GZDoom as "an engine that also plays Doom".

Compared to Quake 2's remaster, GZDoom's gameplay changes are genuinely benign and weapons and monsters really just behave the same as they always did, for example.

[Edward850]

The old code wasn't "thrown out", it was directly iterated on. Nor was it at the disregard of anyone, however options require testing, and more options require exponentially more testing. Plus some things couldn't have even been an option, you couldn't really have two different sets of maps for example. Combine that with doing a new mapset and it would have just made things way too complicated for its own good.

 

The changes also weren't brought out of nowhere, they were explicitly restored content that missed the original release, under direct supervision of Kevin Cloud, the original project director.

Edited February 27 by Edward850

[Scottier681]

Hybridial:

I appreciate your response. That IS how I feel. Q2 "feels" good, right, fun, enjoyable, replayable, and I truly enjoy it. It's just good to know I'm not alone in these opinions. And I guess anybody and everybody is a critic negative or positive.

[mhmh]

Both Q1 and Q2 are good, but both scratch different gameplay "itches" and depending on what I'm currently feeling in the mood for I might arbitrarily prefer one over the other on any random day (or even neither if I'm feeling like something entirely different).  I think there were certain toxic parts of the Q1 community that hated (and continue to hate) Q2 on general principle, and just because it isn't Q1.

 

The biggest problem I saw with pre-Nightdive Q2 was the barrier to adoption.  Q2 simply hasn't had the same sourceport love as Q1 had, and although there were engine options, there was no real "pure" option for people who just wanted to pick up and play the base game.  Q1 also has a stronger single-player community with groundbreaking releases, and part of the reason for that is that Q1 is a bit messed-up and disjointed, so there's a feeling that you can do anything, whereas with Q2 it's just Strogg stuff.

[ReaperAA]

4 hours ago, mhmh said:

The biggest problem I saw with pre-Nightdive Q2 was the barrier to adoption.  Q2 simply hasn't had the same sourceport love as Q1 had, and although there were engine options, there was no real "pure" option for people who just wanted to pick up and play the base game.

 

While Quake 2 didn't get as many source ports as Q1 did, the options for "pure" source ports were already there. Yamagi was and still is a great port for vanilla Q2. There's also the lesser known 3.24 unofficial patch which is also a viable option (though I prefer Yamagi)

 

And lastly, I would mention Q2Pro which is another fine source port that is more focused on MP, but you can play SP as well.

[Professor Hastig]

19 hours ago, ReaperAA said:

 There's also the lesser known 3.24 unofficial patch which is also a viable option (though I prefer Yamagi)

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but AFAIR this doesn't have direct support for 16:9 modes.

While overall still viable, which by itself is amazing after such a long time, I think Yamagi is the perfect progression from here. It is still very faithful and can even load all those old game DLLs but offers tastefully modernized graphics and audio systems. Especially the dynamic lights look a lot better in the GL3 backend it has to offer.

 

[mhmh]

I must revisit Yamagi so. Last time I looked at it, I'd discounted it as it didn't do what I wanted, but I don't recall anything more specific. I'm probably just guilty of not keeping up with developments since then. 

[Kinsie]

On 3/2/2024 at 1:22 AM, Professor Hastig said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but AFAIR this doesn't have direct support for 16:9 modes.

I used it in a 720p window for quite a while when Yamagi wasn't working properly for me.