DooM II Map Interpretation Project (Slots Open)

[Abandoned_Account]

DooM II Map Interpretation Project (DIIMIP or D2MIP in short if you want) is a project to edit slightly existing Doom 2 levels (Mostly those that take place on Earth) to make those look a little more realistic which couldn't be done using 94' engine limitations.
Thanks to GermanPeter we have a good look on how those levels can be interpreted, what they exactly can be supposed to be which is shown in the video posted below. Also thanks to GermanPeter and many other people for inspiring this project!
 

Project Rules:
Two main rules by quoting GermanPeter: "If I was gonna be part of a project like this, then it'd basically have two main rules:
1) Keeping the original layouts and designs intact (not making unique stages; at most restructuring certain rooms here and there)
2) Trying to guess the intention of the authors who made the maps and then adding things to make them resemble that more (like adding windows that they couldn't add due to limitations etc) "
Other rules:

1. Maps have to be made using UDMF format

2. Do not use wall textures for the floor (And floor for walls), do not add slopes and do not add poly objects

3. No custom monsters or weapons etc.

Map slots:
01 - Taken (By AuroraFox)
02- Taken (By Aeddes666)
03 - Free
04 - Free
05- Free
06 - Free
07 - Free
08 - Free
09 - Free
10 - Free
11 - Free
12- Free
13 - Taken (By Mystic 256)
14 - Free
15- Free
16 - Taken (By Grungo)
17 - Free
18 - Free
19 - Free
20 - Free

If any interested mapper wanna take a slot, please send me an dm and i will give ya an invite to discord server where we gonna discuss who take which maps to work on!

Edited March 3 by AuroraFox

[knifeworld]

You'd be better off entirely reimagining the levels based loosely on what each area looks like it's supposed to be, rather than "slightly edit the original maps" ...
We've had 3 or 4 of these threads now, including this one, they're pushing other stuff down the list, and potentially pulling some people away from making better use of their time by doing something original.

[Abandoned_Account]

6 minutes ago, knifeworld said:

You'd be better off entirely reimagining the levels based loosely on what each area looks like it's supposed to be, rather than "slightly edit the original maps" ...
We've had 3 or 4 of these threads now, including this one, they're pushing other stuff down the list, and potentially pulling some people away from making better use of their time by doing something original.

With all respect but think about people who have trouble being full on original, its so hard to be original those days, and even more harder when ure not one of those very good mappers that can in two days make a great looking map or two, if u can do that, im happy for you but please keep in mind some people might like to edit existing og doom stuff to make it look as it could look wihout engine limitation, people with not great mapping talent can be less stressed cause they have a base they can add new stuff to. Its a good project for beginners and those who already know some small tricks in mapping. If you want something original then i dont know, do it yourself maybe? I saw some people wanna do this project, and im trying my best to spark this engine running so those people can do it cause well no one wanted to make a thread with details etc, to organise things. So please understand that im not doing this for spam or for you only, some people might and do like this idea more than you. Also something i say, not everyone is good with doing original stuff, i dont wanna be rude but talented people always act like everyone can do sam ethings they can do, which is a sick joke in my opinion and make those talented people sound, hmmm dont wanna use bad words cause i dont wanna be an asshole. Thank you, have an nice day or night, depends where u form

[Xaser]

Remastering/improving stock content is also something that takes a good amount of skill to do well (source: I've been there :P ).

There's nothing wrong with a new mapper using this sort of project as a way to practice mapping, especially if it's something they're interested in -- I've always found that the best way to motivate myself to learn something new is to have a concrete goal (i.e. a thing I want to make) in mind. But I wouldn't start with the assumption that doing this sort of thing is any easier than making something from scratch. To pull it off well, you've got to consider whether the additions you're making fit stylistically, or don't impede on the gameplay too much (or, better, use the new stuff as an opportunity to improve the gameplay). And so forth.

tl;dr: Don't do it because it's "easier", do it because it's what you wanna do. :P

[senpaigru]

oh wow, it's another person wanting to start a community project that tweaks maps from the original game(s) rather than creating something new. haven't seen one of these in about 4 days.

[Abandoned_Account]

21 minutes ago, Xaser said:

Remastering/improving stock content is also something that takes a good amount of skill to do well (source: I've been there :P ).

There's nothing wrong with a new mapper using this sort of project as a way to practice mapping, especially if it's something they're interested in -- I've always found that the best way to motivate myself to learn something new is to have a concrete goal (i.e. a thing I want to make) in mind. But I wouldn't start with the assumption that doing this sort of thing is any easier than making something from scratch. To pull it off well, you've got to consider whether the additions you're making fit stylistically, or don't impede on the gameplay too much (or, better, use the new stuff as an opportunity to improve the gameplay). And so forth.

tl;dr: Don't do it because it's "easier", do it because it's what you wanna do. :P

Good point and good words, yes i wanna this project not only because its might be easy ofcourse, i always had a soft spot for remakes, expansions of existing levels etc. But well whenever i try making something from scratch, it dies very soon, i tried remaking Doom 1, made E1M1 and never finished that mod, i started an map pack few months ago, didnt even finished 1 level. I need some base and complete idea to create things, when i try to make something original i get very distracted or i cant focus completely. Im amazed i kinda my own world or (universum as someone could name it) some time ago, but thats not the topic here.

[Abandoned_Account]

19 minutes ago, senpaigru said:

oh wow, it's another person wanting to start a community project that tweaks maps from the original game(s) rather than creating something new. haven't seen one of these in about 4 days.

Then why you waste your time rather than i dont know pass by, do your own original stuff? Dont take it as hostility but you remind me now of those people on the street who need to comment everything i do like they have no own life. I know it might be annoying but i only saw one topic about it, and i made my own to recruit people who wanna participate cause it seems no one wanted to make discord server, organise things so i thought, well if there is a group of mappers that want it, ill organise things, maybe get more people interested in it. If you dont like, well its ok im not forcing you to like it. Note here, im not stepping back unless there is no enough people wanting participate. After all, one or two person not gonna decide what should i do unless there is a big important reason why i shouldnt start a project. Thanks for giving your hmm quite sarcastic yet negative opinion on this post though. I still apreciate that and i hope you have good day or evening

[senpaigru]

15 minutes ago, AuroraFox said:

Then why you waste your time rather than i dont know pass by, do your own original stuff? 

 

Good idea! I think I'm going to start a fast food chain where we just buy McDonald's hamburgers but we add a couple of pickles and call it a new thing. 

[roadworx]

posting in a soon-to-be epic thread

tbh it's much harder to do a good job of editing existing works to make them better instead of redoing them from scratch; you're far too heavily constrained. and either way, trying to sit there and edit preexisting maps to "get better at mapping" instead of just, y'know, practicing so you can overcome your shortcomings, isn't the best way of going about things. it's essentially running away from your problems.

 

also,

Quote

1. Maps have to be made using UDMF format

why

Edited February 29 by roadworx

[Mystic 256]

ooo i wanna join, i kinda want to take Map13 downtown but I can go with any slot

anyways I would like to join regardless

Edited February 29 by Mystic 256

[LVENdead]

It's probably also worth mentioning that with a project like this where the premise is to take the existing, commercially released maps, and making changes and then distributing them again probably borders on being against the forum's terms of service and/or not legal, so that's something to keep in mind.

[Stabbey]

1 hour ago, AuroraFox said:

With all respect but think about people who have trouble being full on original,

 

With all respect, that's their problem, and it's solved by playing more maps and using their imaginations. No one has to be completely 100% original and uninfluenced by any other map, but "make slight tweaks to the original commercial maps" is doing far too little.

[Dusty_Rhodes]

24 minutes ago, roadworx said:

why

German Peter said so. To be fair, I am in complete agreement. I never like constricting projects to a really small list of ports (not that that matters, project leaders should use whatever port they desire, I'm just a turd). 

 

But the idea was that 3D floors and real water are easier than using silent teleports and fake floors from Boom. I get the idea, but I also see why people would take interest in it. 

 

But to be fair to OP, he is just following what German Peter suggested. 

[Abandoned_Account]

56 minutes ago, Mystic 256 said:

ooo i wanna join, i kinda want to take Map13 downtown but I can go with any slot

anyways I would like to join regardless

Ill send u discord invite on dm tommorow, cause im gonna go to sleep now,  message me tommorow if I forget ok?

[Razza]

1 hour ago, AuroraFox said:

But well whenever i try making something from scratch, it dies very soon, i tried remaking Doom 1, made E1M1 and never finished that mod, i started an map pack few months ago, didnt even finished 1 level. I need some base and complete idea to create things, when i try to make something original i get very distracted or i cant focus completely.

So you've never finished a map before and now you want to be a project lead? I kind of understand the appeal of making Doom 2 levels into more "realistic" environments, but people aren't going to want to work on a project led by a person who only has abandoned maps to their name and admits to being unable to focus on finishing even one short level

[GermanPeter]

33 minutes ago, Dusty_Rhodes said:

German Peter said so. To be fair, I am in complete agreement. I never like constricting projects to a really small list of ports (not that that matters, project leaders should use whatever port they desire, I'm just a turd). 

 

But the idea was that 3D floors and real water are easier than using silent teleports and fake floors from Boom. I get the idea, but I also see why people would take interest in it. 

 

But to be fair to OP, he is just following what German Peter suggested. 

To clarify: I'm not affiliated with this project, I just said how I would have done it. I'd like to use the UDMF format and its portals to create rooms that are physically impossible otherwise, and the 3D floors to add rooms over rooms. What OP plans on doing with it is up to them.

 

Personally, I don't see the criticism this project is receiving. What's wrong with adding a bit of detail to existing maps? If you think it's boring or uninspired, then don't join it. Nobody complains when people post their baby's first Doom maps on here either (or at least shouldn't), not everything has to be a bombshell.

 

Again, I'm not part of this project whatsoever.

[Abandoned_Account]

Just now, Razza said:

So you've never finished a map before and now you want to be a project lead? I kind of understand the appeal of making Doom 2 levels into more "realistic" environments, but people aren't going to want to work on a project led by a person who only has abandoned maps to their name and admits to being unable to focus on finishing even one short level

That was because those project i started with were too big, custom textures, many maps, custom weapons mostly made by myself. Here i get more people, so if I not fonish one map, I can pass it to someone else or let them do it. But if most of you want me to abandon this idea, fine I will do it. Dont wanna argue with yall

[cannonball]

2 hours ago, AuroraFox said:

With all respect but think about people who have trouble being full on original, its so hard to be original those days, and even more harder when ure not one of those very good mappers that can in two days make a great looking map or two, if u can do that, im happy for you but please keep in mind some people might like to edit existing og doom stuff to make it look as it could look wihout engine limitation, people with not great mapping talent can be less stressed cause they have a base they can add new stuff to. Its a good project for beginners and those who already know some small tricks in mapping. If you want something original then i dont know, do it yourself maybe? I saw some people wanna do this project, and im trying my best to spark this engine running so those people can do it cause well no one wanted to make a thread with details etc, to organise things. So please understand that im not doing this for spam or for you only, some people might and do like this idea more than you. Also something i say, not everyone is good with doing original stuff, i dont wanna be rude but talented people always act like everyone can do sam ethings they can do, which is a sick joke in my opinion and make those talented people sound, hmmm dont wanna use bad words cause i dont wanna be an asshole. Thank you, have an nice day or night, depends where u form

 

I think you are over stating the difficulty of building something original whilst understating the difficulty of tweaking very abstract maps from the IWads. The definition of "original" is very subjective and you would be surprised at how obvious it is to spot a map from well known mappers for example.

It sounds like you are having difficulty getting from concept to a finished map (From your musings on here), so I would definitely suggest facing this and seeking advice because I cannot help but feel that this project will fall on its face quite quickly at the present time. You clearly want to get involved in the community and make stuff, but again it will be much better for you to get through the barriers that are stopping you from finishing stuff because the same logic could apply to, for example managing this project.

The community has spread out significantly over the past few years and there are several discord servers that I think you would find useful (Entryway, Pineapple under the sea (PUSS) to name a couple. 

[roadworx]

2 hours ago, GermanPeter said:

Personally, I don't see the criticism this project is receiving. What's wrong with adding a bit of detail to existing maps? If you think it's boring or uninspired, then don't join it. Nobody complains when people post their baby's first Doom maps on here either (or at least shouldn't), not everything has to be a bombshell.

at least for me, it's primarily because op is seeing it as a way to bypass the fact that he's struggling to create maps in the first place. it's just...not a good way to go about doing things? i mean, for one, idk if you've ever tried remaking maps or adding onto existing ones before (i have as part of the 1995 tune-up project), but it's actually harder than making your own original stuff lol. secondly, trying to worm your way around the fact that you're struggling to map in the first place isn't gonna work. you have to get at the root cause of that; trying to do alternative methods like "oh i'll just change existing maps!!!" isn't gonna help. trust me.

 

and third - and this is something that razza just pointed out, and he certainly has experience with community projects being run poorly (epicyoloswagwhateverthefuck moment) - op is highly inexperienced and is trying to lead a community project. that is a guaranteed shitshow.

Edited March 1 by roadworx

[senpaigru]

5 minutes ago, GermanPeter said:

Personally, I don't see the criticism this project is receiving. What's wrong with adding a bit of detail to existing maps? If you think it's boring or uninspired, then don't join it. Nobody complains when people post their baby's first Doom maps on here either (or at least shouldn't), not everything has to be a bombshell.

 

I don't see the comparison of a project in this vein and 'baby's first doom maps' being the same or remotely similar at all. At least if someone posts first/early maps and they are underwhelming they are at least learning and drawing their own geometry and making texture and thing placement choices as well as learning how to build more exciting areas and fights and ideally this leads to the mapper getting naturally better over time. It's a road you can see them travel in real time with each map potentially becoming slightly more competent as their skill grows to match their imagination. I would take a bad map from a new mapper over a copy-pasted map because the baby's first map at least came from baby's imagination and is unique to that person in some way. Copy-pasting maps from the IWADS is the complete antithesis of that. Why not take the risk and allow yourself to make less-than-perfect maps for the sake of gaining competency in time?

 

[Abandoned_Account]

I see the point, thanks. I will still try making this project tho! If it fail then it will fail! Atleast i will TRY doing what i want before i fucking die. Go on, see me as coward or some other piece of shit, i dont care! If i have to be a loser then atleast ill be the loser who keep trying instead of giving up! Now goodnight

[Fonze]

33 minutes ago, roadworx said:

is highly inexperienced and is trying to lead a community project. that is a guaranteed shitshow.

There's a reason doomworld got rid of the newproject tag, and your posts here, despite not using it but very much echoing its sentiments, perfectly exemplify why: it's toxic. You don't have to

 

1 hour ago, roadworx said:

posting in a soon-to-be epic thread

in an overt effort to stir up a shit storm. I think the direction this thread has taken on all sides is a shame, but maybe it's a learning experience all around.

[Obsidian]

@AuroraFox I...don't think you're taking the correct message away from this thread. For what it's worth, being dogpiled is never a fun experience and I can understand if you don't feel all that amazing about the state of things right now. It's more than understandable if you'd prefer to come back to this situation later.

 

I'm inclined to agree with cannonball regarding the need to sharpen your own abilities, mapping or otherwise: beyond the reasons other people have mentioned, it'll also help you run a project by virtue of being able to properly convey its central concepts and inspire others to contribute. You increase your chances for successfully helming a community project by shoring up your own abilities as a mapper and a project manager, which in the case of the latter is incredibly important when it comes to the handling and presentation of other people's work. Observe how other community members have done the same, examine the works that inspire you and don't be afraid to ask questions. 👍

 

As for the other people reading this thread, I'd appreciate it if you don't harass AuroraFox about this any further: I'd prefer to not have any blow-ups because people couldn't stop themselves from indulging their schadenfreude.

[Notsee]

I have a request can you make the Blue Room in the Chasm an underwater section since GZDoom supports underwater stuff

[knifeworld]

2 hours ago, GermanPeter said:

Personally, I don't see the criticism this project is receiving. What's wrong with adding a bit of detail to existing maps? If you think it's boring or uninspired, then don't join it. Nobody complains when people post their baby's first Doom maps on here either (or at least shouldn't), not everything has to be a bombshell.

A first map made entirely from scratch is very different from doing minimal edits to a map from a commercially released game.

[roadworx]

58 minutes ago, Notsee said:

I have a request can you make the Blue Room in the Chasm an underwater section since GZDoom supports underwater stuff

do it yourself. it is literally a community project.

Edited March 1 by roadworx

[NiGHTMARE]

There are more than half a dozen other Doom 2 reinterpretation projects currently in progress and a few already released - see here for a list of most of them:

If you want to remake or remaster something, how about Evolution or Plutonia, or even an 90s megawad?

 

Full confession: I'm working on my own D2 remaster (not mentioned in that topic, since it doesn't have its own topic or website). I started back in 2015 before most of the other projects were announced - I probably wouldn't have bothered had I known so many other people were going to do the same thing!

Edited March 1 by NiGHTMARE

[Zesiir]

It's an interesting project. Though I'm not a big fan of keeping the original map layouts, I'd rather base the new maps on them. Feels like a more fresh approach, while still being a homage to the original creators.

 

I've made maps 01-05 reimagined with a limit-removing approach already, after I too got inspired by GermanPeter's video. Though I plan on only focusing on Doom 2's first episode, the starport. My intention is, like I mentioned above, to base the maps on their original design, but create something more believable. I never realised this was such a common trope here, so perhaps I'll hold off on releasing them for a while yet.

 

[Yagacaw]

I started getting into doom mapping less then a year ago so maybe I can share some tips from another new member who is just learning this stuff themselves. I like the idea of a projects to help new mappers get there legs, and it is certainly helpful to trace others work to help discover your mapping style. If this is the goal i would suggest that the project be in MBF21 format. I was working on a project that involved changing one of my early maps from Boom format to UDMF, which involves changing all the line defs to what the equivalent is in UDMF. While UDMF allows more advanced features it requires knowledge New mappers would not yet have to converts the features of Vanilla doom to UDMF and just have it play the same. So I would recommend picking a lane so to speak and either have the project be for new mappers or, for old mappers who want to mess around with UDMF. Either way good luck with the project and welcome!

[Notsee]

18 hours ago, roadworx said:

do it yourself. it is literally a community project.

I have no experience in mapping