Maps where the second floor of the map is the obstacles of the first floor?

[DoomGappy]

This is one of my favorite tropes in Doom mapping, but I'm having a hard time thinking of an example other than Tim Willits' Canyon, which has a starting area with these metal panels that turns out to be a platforming opportunity in the second floor, albeit a very small one. Any other maps like this or that revolve around this concept? Here is an example I made in 5 minutes. To reach the exit and the megasphere you need to climb on top of the things that were blovking your path on the first floor. 
 

 

Edited March 8, 2024 by DoomGappy

[Laocoön]

I made one a couple of months ago. It's map 31 in a megawad coming soon!

[DoomGappy]

32 minutes ago, Laocoön said:

I made one a couple of months ago. It's map 31 in a megawad coming soon!

Can I get some names? I was writing a little text and I need some good examples of this type of design specifically. 

[Laocoön]

The megawad is a w-i-p called Infernal Gladiator and the map is called Low. I think there's a late map in Romero's Sigil 1 that kind of does this as well.

[Laocoön]

Oh, I read this wrong. I thought we were talking about stuff being in the same level. Sorry! Also, why are there two versions of this thread?

[DoomGappy]

Just now, Laocoön said:

Oh, I read this wrong. I thought we were talking about stuff being in the same level. Sorry! Also, why are there two versions of this thread?

It is in the same level. I used levels as in floor. I'll clarify it a bit. There are two versions because I made it on the wrong forum, but I reported the other one to be deleted. 

[Laocoön]

Oh, ok!

[DoomGappy]

Added this example.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1PPGB90FVN-aingT_AagC9Mpi2j_TDZwm/view?usp=drive_link

[kwc]

IIRC Doom Zero would use this technique and also do some puzzles with the concept as well.

 

Edited March 8, 2024 by kwc

[apichatpong]

I'm not sure it fit your trope (that I also like but, it's annoying, i'm sure to have played lots of maps with it but also have difficulties to find precise examples...), sorry if it's not the case...

 

from sunlust

 

Map 06 (first image)

Map 08 (second image)(when you teleport to the central pilar you can do some platforming and even have a short cut above blue bars to reach a switch)(but, technically, it's not really second floor...)

Map 15 (third image)

 

Also think of map 29 with the lowering floor but, never been able to do platforming on the remaining pilars (which are obsatcle to the lower floor fight), may need sr50 (or is impossible ?) and also, might not have any use...

 

And, pretty sure you may find examples in mutabor but it's so intricated that... maybe it's more a feeling than a real thing...

 

 

Edited March 8, 2024 by apichatpong

[apichatpong]

also... maybe... this short part of the "red" area of anagnorisis...

[apichatpong]

Don't know how I missed this : the big library room (after the fake archvile sshh) in Sunder map 17

 

I'll stop spamming until confirmation these examples are, at least a bit, in your theme... don't want to spoil you thread...

[drygnfyre]

Doesn't Map 23 of Doom 2 kind of do this? On the first floor, I remember there is a platform that you raise, and then you use it to get to the other side of the starting hallway on the second floor.

[DoomGappy]

20 hours ago, apichatpong said:

I'm not sure it fit your trope (that I also like but, it's annoying, i'm sure to have played lots of maps with it but also have difficulties to find precise examples...), sorry if it's not the case...

 

from sunlust

 

Map 06 (first image)

Map 08 (second image)(when you teleport to the central pilar you can do some platforming and even have a short cut above blue bars to reach a switch)(but, technically, it's not really second floor...)

Map 15 (third image)

 

Also think of map 29 with the lowering floor but, never been able to do platforming on the remaining pilars (which are obsatcle to the lower floor fight), may need sr50 (or is impossible ?) and also, might not have any use...

 

And, pretty sure you may find examples in mutabor but it's so intricated that... maybe it's more a feeling than a real thing...

 

 

All of these check, although they are more "platforming puzzles" than just a simple second floor. I was wondering more about something designed with that idea from the ground up, no pun intended. But they do fit the bill!

[apichatpong]

4 hours ago, DoomGappy said:

All of these check, although they are more "platforming puzzles" than just a simple second floor. I was wondering more about something designed with that idea from the ground up, no pun intended. But they do fit the bill!

That's what I thought and what made me  stop spamming... I just added Sunder map 17 because that's seemed to me the closest to your idea but was not really convinced...

[DoomGappy]

On 3/9/2024 at 5:48 PM, apichatpong said:

That's what I thought and what made me  stop spamming... I just added Sunder map 17 because that's seemed to me the closest to your idea but was not really convinced...

 

That's okay, those are good examples.
 

I was watching this video and this map does it in reverse, the floor raises and becomes a pathway for the second "floor" and then they become obstacles in the first floor. 

[Ravendesk]

If I understand what you look for correctly, then Blues Brothers 2023 map 02 was designed exactly with this idea in mind.

 

Other than that, if you are willing to dive deep into more platforming-oriented wads, you will find a lot of multi-floor stuff like that where you walk on what you previously viewed as walls or obstacles:

Finaly Crafted Fetish Film - almost all maps have this aspect, but maps 06 and 07 especially so.

Frog and Toad - maps 06 and 08.

Hardfest 2 - layouts of maps 20 and 25 are very much based around the same thing, and map 33 kinda brings this to extreme heights.

Dance on the Water - map 05 is a climbing exercise over an enormous structure, be aware that this one is very difficult though.

[apichatpong]

I thought of something that might be a limit case : libraries...

 

If ok then there are stuff like that on Going down map 9, Eviternity map 4 (redskull key room)) and plenty on Maskim Xul.

 

Some obstacles are of help for small platforming on the cavern of going down map 25

 

And, on a GIGANTIC level you can (maybe...) consider that the northeast area of Sunder map 11 "fits"...

[DoomGappy]

21 minutes ago, Ravendesk said:

If I understand what you look for correctly, then Blues Brothers 2023 map 02 was designed exactly with this idea in mind.

 

Other than that, if you are willing to dive deep into more platforming-oriented wads, you will find a lot of multi-floor stuff like that where you walk on what you previously viewed as walls or obstacles:

Finaly Crafted Fetish Film - almost all maps have this aspect, but maps 06 and 07 especially so.

Frog and Toad - maps 06 and 08.

Hardfest 2 - layouts of maps 20 and 25 are very much based around the same thing, and map 33 kinda brings this to extreme heights.

Dance on the Water - map 05 is a climbing exercise over an enormous structure, be aware that this one is very difficult though.

I'll check those out soon!

 

11 minutes ago, apichatpong said:

I thought of something that might be a limit case : libraries...

Definitely! This map has it (7:50) and I loved it!