the big no-no's of mapping

[DoomGappy]

On 3/9/2024 at 1:27 PM, bofu said:

• Don't make details get in the player's way. As much as we all appreciate Doomcute and attention to detail, if a player is constantly bouncing off of your painstakingly crafted multi-sector floor with alternating floor heights or tiny little pillars every 5 yards, they might not be having a good time. Try to stick details close to to walls, or even in the walls themselves unless there's lots of room to move around them.

I'm an impassable line freak and it annoys me to no end when I can climb on top of stuff just because It's 24 pixels tall. Use impassable lines, I don't want to climb onto the ledge of the switch goddamit!!!

[kwc]

1 hour ago, DoomGappy said:

I'm an impassable line freak and it annoys me to no end when I can climb on top of stuff just because It's 24 pixels tall. Use impassable lines, I don't want to climb onto the ledge of the switch goddamit!!!

Impassable lines can sometimes have weird behaviors of their own that may outweigh it's implicit benefits for a lot of source ports. Depending on said line's makeup, they can result in a kind of sticky collision that can be arguably even more irritating. If the goal is to allow clean and unobstructed movement, unless the line is orthogonal and unbroken (even then, it's depends), you may be better off letting the player stand on that ledge. Better yet, consider if the detailing is really necessary or well constructed to begin with. It's a bit of a balance. 
 

Edited March 12 by kwc

[ApprihensivSoul]

Conversely, lock people out of secrets as often as possible, and make multiple sets of secrets mutually exclusive, so that optimizing collection on multiple playthroughs becomes a treasure hunt.

 

Spoiler

(There's actually a right way to do this well: make sure your sector 9 tags are all reachable in a single playthrough, even if their rewards are not, and the same goes for items and kills. Keep in mind that this primarily rewards players who like to revisit maps, and maps that start out sprawling to a point where backtracking is prohibitive for reasons of distance alone. Even then, it shouldn't be abused, and takes a bit to get a feel for it.)

 

 

On 3/9/2024 at 10:26 AM, Jayextee said:

Also secrets must never be locked for the player at any time, because if a player can't see the exit switch and backtrack for any missed secrets that shit is literally unplayable.

[EPICALLL]

I'll say this, if you make a fighting arena, the bulk of a fight should not take place in the entrance to the arena.

[DRON12261]

I'll copy an old one of my posts here. 

 

Let's discard the "just practice and do what you like" advice. Because for the most part this advice is useless, and it's clear enough if you're not a fool. If you are suddenly a fool for whatever reason, just don't be one and you'll be fine. 
 

1) Study the editor. Explore its capabilities, what it even allows you to do. Go a little further than just "you can draw a sector, lines", "you can make doors", etc.

2) Study map formats, what they are, what they provide, and what ports they work on. Learn certain mapping tricks, there are a lot of them and for each format can be different. Today of the significant formats there are the following: Vanilla(with limits under the original), Limit-Removing, Boom, MBF21, Hexen, UDMF. Each format has its own limitations, its own purpose and its own goals. At the very least different port coverage.

 

3) Study how ports work at a good level (I mean those aspects that can play a role in mapping, you don't need to dig into the port source code, much is described in the Wiki, much is learned with experience, much is mentioned in discussions), what features and capabilities they have, as well as what problems and limitations they have. Make yourself a list of ports for each map format, customize configurations in Doom Builder to match these lists. If you think that on one port everything works great, and on other ports everything will work just as great, you are terribly mistaken. In almost all ports, various unforeseen nuances may pop up in certain situations (up to bugs in the vanilla Boom or prBoom+, for example, which some ports focused on during development, and which were fixed by other ports).

 

4) Pay attention to additional features and "standards", especially MAPINFO. Today there are many additional features implemented in different ports, which you can additionally use in your map. If we talk about MAPINFO for example Boom maps, always implement several MAPINFOs. In my experience, the greatest port coverage is achieved by including UMAPINFO, ZMAPINFO, EMAPINFO, MAPINFO(Hexen format) in your wad. Combine with techniques for vanilla ports (level names in Dehacked and additional image files with level names for Intermission Screen, naming music and everything else for vanilla format, etc.).

 

5) Test your maps on a wide range of ports. DO NOT sit only within one or two ports only, unless you are creating an exclusive that will only work on, for example, GZDoom or Eternity Engine. If you created a map on Boom, for example, but tested on GZDoom, then you haven't tested it at all. Good testing and paying enough attention to the polishing of the project often plays an important role.

 

6) Learn to do things quickly. Gradually increase your development speed. Get deeper into the nuances of the editor. Develop your own "techniques" for doing certain things "in a couple clicks" that you spend a lot of time on. Practice speedmapping, not necessarily with rigid limits. The main message, do more without losing quality in less time.

7) If you feel that you lack creativity, set yourself limits. It's often the case that in the face of strong constraints in trying to implement certain things, you'll look for hacks of one sort or another to implement them, which in turn will keep your "brain is boiling" and will go a long way towards delving into a topic and therefore ensuring your growth. This is one of the reasons I usually tell beginners to start with Limit-Removing or Boom. Limits can straighten your arms if you put in the extra effort, there is no magic out of thin air, don't get your hopes up. But it's still worth considering that it may not work for everyone, although from my observations it has often worked for me and many other mappers I know. Another thing worth mentioning here is to search for your idea generators. For example for me it's listening to music, especially MIDI soundtracks, listening to which I already start visualizing my map in my head.

8) Take into account the rule that a player is a "fool" (I don't mean to disparage, I'm a player myself). If you think you've come up with some incredible new thing on your map, don't assume that the average player will be able to figure it out and see it. It often happens that even on seemingly insanely obvious things, the player will sit scratching his head for 3 hours and do not do what you have in mind. This is basically the eternal dilemma of leveldesign and gamedesign in the game industry. So always keep this thing in mind. And don't forget to test on players before releasing a map. It's a good idea to keep in mind among potential testers as people with experience in mapping, as well as ordinary players who may not even know much about Doom itself.

9) Your multi-layered posts and README files will be read by only a few people. People don't know how to read. Either they are insanely lazy or busy. If you have to write certain important things that need to be conveyed to the player in a post or README, this is likely to be a problem. If you have a way to automate this (e.g. the settings or things or whatever are automatically applied when the map starts) or implement it in such a way that the player simply can't miss this information (e.g. explicitly provide it to the player on the map itself) or something along those lines, do it. The less there will be such an intermediate textual and not only layer between the player and your wad, the better it will be.

10) Don't rush with the release on idgames. It can often happen that you post a map on idgames after some pretty confident testing and polishing, and then suddenly after a couple of weeks you find out that there are certain flaws, someone had something broken, or the balance or level progression was not as obvious as you thought. Do a temporary Release Candidate and specifically wait for a certain time period (e.g. a month), during which certain issues could potentially surface.

11) Play other wads and learn from other mappers. It is impossible to come up with something potentially new. Observe, adopt, combine, develop. And don't be afraid to learn other maps in builder, this is the key point, due to which you can learn a lot of things.

 

 

I've also written in more detail about some things in other posts, you might be interested in reading that as well:
- Map formats and port testing in detail: https://www.doomworld.com/forum/post/2640803
- How to build your own texture pack: https://www.doomworld.com/forum/post/2652222
- Vanilla-Friendly features: https://www.doomworld.com/forum/post/2655658
- Tips for implementing good secrets: https://www.doomworld.com/forum/post/2715584

Good Luck!

Edited March 12 by DRON12261

[LoatharMDPhD]

// Don't Release your Map Without an Exit Linedef... or sector type 11 or a killable Romero head, by either the player directly or by witchcraft...

Edited March 12 by LoatharMDPhD

[DNSKILL5]

If you don’t include a text file with your WAD you are making a no-no. It may have no immediate issue, but with the passage of time it could lead to a WAD circulating without the author being known. Unless that is your goal to remain anonymous, of course, then it is really not that hard to just include a text file with the WAD download that gives basic information. 

[DoomGappy]

4 hours ago, kwc said:

Impassable lines can sometimes have weird behaviors of their own that may outweigh it's implicit benefits for a lot of source ports. Depending on said line's makeup, they can result in a kind of sticky collision that can be arguably even more irritating. If the goal is to allow clean and unobstructed movement, unless the line is orthogonal and unbroken (even then, it's depends), you may be better off letting the player stand on that ledge. Better yet, consider if the detailing is really necessary or well constructed to begin with. It's a bit of a balance. 

Oh no, you've destroyed what I believed in. I'll keep it in mind for future maps. I'm happy you told me about it, though, because I can plan ahead knowing that info.

[DoomGuy999]

Saw a good vid by Doomkid

 

 

Quick summary in case you can't watch his video because you don't have the time (Make sure to give it a view when you can, he's a good content creator.)

1. Don't make it too symmetrical

2. No inescapable radiation pits

3. No thin corridors (bigger than 64 mp)

4. Don't make it UV only

5. No over using the same texture

Edited March 12 by DoomGuy999

[eltiolavara9]

ok people started giving actual advice so here's mine: finishing a bad map or opening the editor and making 1 room is better than making nothing at all, updating stuff is easier than starting it from scratch at least for me

also, if youre hating working on your map, consider setting it aside and starting a new one (but don't delete the old one) (maybe)

[ObserverOfTime]

9 hours ago, eltiolavara9 said:

also, if youre hating working on your map, consider setting it aside and starting a new one (but don't delete the old one) (maybe) 

 

Don't ever delete old works even if they are incomplete or otherwise unsatisfactory. You don't have to hoard them or take particularly good care of them, but they can sometimes serve as nice reference material on how to accomplish a certain effect you figured out before.

 

I had an otherwise pointless map saved that I kept coming back to time and time again to see how I did the rising stairs, without which I would have to re-invent the wheel so to speak. I dislike everything about that map, but the rising stairs were well done, and it's not something I do a lot, so being able to go back and check it out really helps.

 

Though, if one really hates working on maps perhaps it is time to find something else to do for a while. No point in torturing oneself if the process is not an enjoyable or inspiring one. Perhaps considering why one picked up a map editor in the first place can help one reevaluate one's relationship with Doom mapping and its place in one's life.

[eltiolavara9]

15 hours ago, ObserverOfTime said:

 

Don't ever delete old works even if they are incomplete or otherwise unsatisfactory. You don't have to hoard them or take particularly good care of them, but they can sometimes serve as nice reference material on how to accomplish a certain effect you figured out before.

 

I had an otherwise pointless map saved that I kept coming back to time and time again to see how I did the rising stairs, without which I would have to re-invent the wheel so to speak. I dislike everything about that map, but the rising stairs were well done, and it's not something I do a lot, so being able to go back and check it out really helps.

 

Though, if one really hates working on maps perhaps it is time to find something else to do for a while. No point in torturing oneself if the process is not an enjoyable or inspiring one. Perhaps considering why one picked up a map editor in the first place can help one reevaluate one's relationship with Doom mapping and its place in one's life.

yeah, it's impossible to get anything done if you don't like the process (i know this from too much experience)

but what i meant by hate is when a map is turning out really badly, like unsalvageably bad, like it's gotten so convoluted you don't know how to continue it

i had this thing with one of my maps where it was just a mess of random ideas and after i started it over it was much more focused and now it's one of my favorites ive made, and i ended up reusing the ideas the "mess" one had elsewhere

[Delisk]

When using a texture pack, do not simply put the entire pack in your wad, only import the textures you need. I have seen a few single map with huge download size when they only use a handful of textures.

 

Posting your first map without reading this...

 

 

 

 

[TheHambourgeois]

2 no-nos I can think of:

1. Do not take constructive criticism as an attack
2. Do not take all constructive criticism as gospel (i.e. if someone who hates slaughtermaps is telling you to make your slaughtermap less like a slaughtermap you can probably ignore them)