ITYTD exists. And it is always an option.

[DiceByte]

Change my mind. Oh right, you can’t. It’s just that I keep on seeing people saying “Ultra-Violence and above are the only modes” and stuff like that. It isn’t. HMP, ITYTD and heck, even HNTR (Hey, not too rough) are an option. Ok, I am not 100% sure about the HNTR option is a thing, I think we all forgot about it, but we just need to remember: we’re not all zero masters. Sometimes we just need to take it easy.

 

Reminder: I am not trying to make anyone angry. I just keep on seeing people like “UV and over are the only option”. I am not trying to stir up and controversy. I just wanna see what people think about this.

Edited March 16 by DiceByte

[Lucius Wooding]

Yeah and Nightmare exists too.

[DiceByte]

1 minute ago, Lucius Wooding said:

Yeah and Nightmare exists too.

Like I said, everyone thinks “Ultra-Violence AND EVERYTHING ABOVE are the only modes that exist.” That includes Nightmare and, in the later games, Ultra-Nightmare.

[ᒐack102]

Yeah, I mostly play Hurt Me Plenty, and I'm gonna say it, THAT'S the main mode. Most the levels feel much more natural and fair on that difficulty. Hurt Me Plenty is the perfect Doom difficulty. Every casual player should try it for a good mix of casual and challenge.

[Novaseer]

This is true, but at the same time most mappers balance for Ultra-Violence, so logically speaking it's probably the closest you'll get to the mapper's intended experience (unless it's one of the rare Nightmare ones like NERF).

 

This isn't to shame lower difficulty players, of course - hell, I played mostly on HMP until fairly recently with my second playthrough of Evi2 kicking me up to UV - but playing that intended experience is very important for a lot of people.

[Edward850]

1 hour ago, DiceByte said:

It’s just that I keep on seeing people saying “Ultra-Violence and above are the only modes” and stuff like that.

By "people" you mean entirely and exactly one person?

[Stabbey]

The majority of the influence towards map balance comes from by the mappers repeatedly play-testing their own maps. It is more difficult for players to properly balance maps for skills which are far above or far below their own. A player who balances maps for ITYTD skill because they can't do well at higher skills will have difficulty estimating map balance for higher skill levels. Conversely, players who balances maps for UV skill because they can do well at that difficulty can have trouble estimating map balance for lower skills because they have the skill to take on the higher difficulty and do well.

 

Doom is a 30-year old game. A lot of the players who are still actively mapping for it are players who have been playing it, and its user-created maps for 10-30 years. Thus, simply their amount of experience playing Doom has increased their skill, which is why maps tend to be balanced more for UV than for ITYTD.

[Murdoch]

1 hour ago, DiceByte said:

Change my mind.

 

This statement is one thing people say that I instantly loathe. It screams "I'm looking for an argument!". Fucking hate it with a passion.

I have lost count of how many times I have said this. There is no worthy debate or discussion to be had here. Play whatever difficulty setting works for you. The game is supposed to be fun. Play whatever skill makes you enjoy a given map or maps. The end. Anyone who disagrees with this needs to stop overcompensating and remember that, again, it's a fucking game.

Edited March 15 by Murdoch

[Garland]

ITYTD is HNTR with double ammo and 50% reduction on damage received by the player. By design, you will get an easier ride on ITYTD than HNTR.

 

I plan to adjust for HNTR, but I've played Doom for years and thus I hover around HMP/Ultra by default.

Edited March 15 by Garland

[LadyMistDragon]

We need more people saying this!

 

Like sure, there aren't that many people on Doomworld at least saying "UV or bust" but maps are generally balanced for UV anyway, and even in the challenge wads with difficulty settings, they can still feel close to obscenely difficult on HNTR in a way that suggests balancing was basically an afterthought. You can put down more supplies but it doesn't necessarily help if you're just really bad.

[LVENdead]

That's why I try to incorporate all the difficulties in my WADs. You're welcome I guess.

[CacoKnight]

ITYTD is my favorite mode, one day I realized I'm not actually good and don't care at all to be, "I'm too old for games" but I love this Doom thing so yeah, relaxing and whatever. Sometimes I complete maps that take speedrunners seconds in like 20+ mins and still can't find a damn secret to save my life :)

Edited March 15 by CacoKnight

[Cutman 999]

It exists, but people want challenge and some just have an ego-maniac fascination to play uv all the time (Clearly it is not that i'm that sort of people, of course...)

[Li'l devil]

I don't like ITYTD because it alters not the maps, but the game itself. Feels wrong getting 8 shells in a 4 shell pickup. HNTR is the go to easy difficulty for me now, so no, it's not forgotten and is an option.

 

The problem I found with difficulty levels, at least in old wads, is that some map makers just don't bother balancing their maps for easier difficulties. Sometimes you play a wad on HNTR and everything's as easy as you expect, but then there's a map that's as hard on HNTR as on UV, resulting in a sudden difficulty spike. Other maps do the opposite: on HNTR/ITYTD they shower you with megaspheres for no reason. I dislike this and it actually makes me want to play old wads on UV only, as it definitely seems the only intended way (thankfully, those wads are pretty manageable on UV for me). Not just that, but I've also seen maps which were definitely not playtested on HNTR/ITYTD at all, because they had bugs exclusive to these skill levels (like teleporter destinations not marked on easy, meaning you can't use the teleporter).

[OpenRift]

Here's the thing. Play on whatever difficulty you want (I'll still make fun of you anyway), but I think the thing about UV is you're getting the most out of the levels you're playing, and seeing the full extent of a WAD's design. ITYTD and HNTR are valid ways to play (they're included in the menu for a reason), but you're just kind of selling yourself short on the experience, in my opinion.

[jmac]

28 minutes ago, OpenRift said:

Here's the thing. Play on whatever difficulty you want (I'll still make fun of you anyway), but I think the thing about UV is you're getting the most out of the levels you're playing, and seeing the full extent of a WAD's design. ITYTD and HNTR are valid ways to play (they're included in the menu for a reason), but you're just kind of selling yourself short on the experience, in my opinion.

Higher difficulty doesn't mean a more complete experience by default. If somebody is bashing their head against a wad on UV when it's too difficult for them to enjoy, they aren't getting the full experience. if anything, they're ruining the experience for themselves.

Edited March 15 by jmac

[ᒐack102]

26 minutes ago, OpenRift said:

 but you're just kind of selling yourself short on the experience, in my opinion.

Yeah, I can see what you're saying, like in Doom 2. Specifically, map 06. That map had a brilliantly terrifying introduction of the revenant, but on if you play on UV. And in the same level, and below UV, no Mastermind :/. Still, Hurt Me Plenty, kind of the way to go.

[ALilGrayBoi]

ITYTD alters the gameplay too much. I think it should only be used if you’re showing your grandma doom and she keeps forgetting what the fire button is. HNTR is a more appropriate easy difficulty.

[Shepardus]

Then there are WADs that throw in a bunch of cyberdemons on the lower skill levels. (I guess that's what mods are for)

[Li'l devil]

I don't know why no one has said it yet, but just git gud lmao n00bs

Edited March 15 by Li'l devil

[roadworx]

3 hours ago, Edward850 said:

By "people" you mean entirely and exactly one person?

yes but op reeeeeally really really wants to whine about a mostly non-existent problem, let him do so

[Lila Feuer]

3 hours ago, Edward850 said:

By "people" you mean entirely and exactly one person?

 

Yeah those still subscribed to GManLives but will get insecure when their shit's pushed in by a modern John Romero.

[ᒐack102]

Just now, Lila Feuer said:

 

Yeah those still subscribed to GManLives but will get insecure when their shit's pushed in by a modern John Romero.

I suck at Doom games, so yeah I get my shit kicked in, but at least its more fun than play a piss poor easy mod.

[CBM]

ITYTD is my default...  I will never be an ace doom player and thats fine. As long as I can play Doom 2 stuff and chill at the same time, then its all good.

I am not a fan of getting stuck in maps due to not knowing how to progress though.

[apichatpong]

I usually specify when I play ITYTD, HNTR or HMP for challenging wads, just because they are challenging and I don't want to take "false glory" (same thing with the saves/single segment question)...  otherwise, it's quite obvious these skill levels exist.  There might be some kind of unconscious or false pressure with lines like "UV is the intented way to play" but, really, who care ? I suscribe to  the forum one year and a half ago, I'm reading  it regularly and, honestly, I don't feel this debate  still is a debate...

 

Yeah, it seems that, some years ago, maybe, it was different, but now, most of the wads have skill levels implemented... of course, sometimes it's implemented by someone who aim at UV and plays UV-fast so who forgot a bit what  it is to be "a very  casual player" but the "empathy difficulty" is the same when reversed : I think it's difficult for a very casual player who map to implement UV well as a challenge.

 

For a game who is 30 years old it's natural to have veterans (and I know that some "veterans" only started playing 3-4 years ago) who may not consider low skills levels but, seems quite rare and even some "veterans" (or mappers who propose very hard maps) sometimes say they first try maps on HNTR or HMP.

[ReaperAA]

1 hour ago, ALilGrayBoi said:

ITYTD alters the gameplay too much. I think it should only be used if you’re showing your grandma doom and she keeps forgetting what the fire button is. HNTR is a more appropriate easy difficulty.

 

I agree. I like HNTR more than ITYTD as the easy difficulty, because the 2x ammo in ITYTD throws ammo management game out of the window. Heretic/Hexen's 1.5x ammo on skill 1 is much more reasonable (though still a bit excessive).

[dasho]

[xScavengerWolfx]

Like most people already said, play doom on what ever difficulty you want.

 

We all know I'm to young to die, hey! Not to rough and Hurt me Plenty exist, so dose Ultra-Violence and nightmare! as well.

 

But what do i know, i'm just some dude that makes maps and enjoys doom.

[mrthejoshmon]

I do not spend time adding difficultly settings to my maps just for some chud to come in and die to UV and complain it is too hard.

 

My design ethos when making levels is:

Easy is there to help struggling people get through it

 

Normal is designed to regularly play it

 

UV is there to challenge myself

 

If you are struggling with the hard difficulty, it's because I literally designed it for the creator to struggle. Play normal.

Edited March 15 by mrthejoshmon

[Professor Hastig]

ITYTD is the last ditch fallback if some maps lack proper balance or feature scenarios that are un-fun on regular settings. For normal play the 50% damage reduction is a bit much, so I tend to define a custom skill with other factors first if I feel the need for it.