The Lost Episodes of Doom, Revisited?

[Arena Chess]

A quick preface; This is gonna be a bit of a ramble so if you lack patience reading long text posts, please free to skip over this topic.

 

What are your thoughts on a concept for a DOOM II Megawad that reimagines some of the ideas behind The Lost Episodes of Doom?

 

I think some untapped potential lies in the concepts of the original, but the creators of The Lost Episodes unfortunately didn't flesh out their vision very well. 

 

The art direction could go in a variety of ways, but I'm thinking if the story was divided into episodes just as the original concept intended, each locale could offer something slightly different in terms of atmosphere and combat.

 

I'm leaning more towards progressively ominous looking skies, some tech themes contrasted with each moon’s “personality.” Showcasing the terrains of each moon in some way. Getting the progression to push you outside in one way or another (perhaps a hazardous/ hostile atmosphere to pose an extra dimension of challenge on one of the moons?) 

 

A HUGE final battle on the infamous Red Spot, and perhaps a refreshing palate cleanser on Earth? (both in visuals and terrain/ structure)

 

What about you? Tell me what you think. I'd love to hear it. :)

[xScavengerWolfx]

So what i'm reading is basically what they did with Doom 64. Make a whole new map set and call it the lost levels.

[Arena Chess]

4 minutes ago, xScavengerWolfx said:

So what i'm reading is basically what they did with Doom 64. Make a whole new map set and call it the lost levels.

Hm, not quite. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough in what I meant. I'm referring to this old thing: https://doomwiki.org/wiki/The_Lost_Episodes_of_Doom

Taking those ideas and making something new and fun to play with those ideas. Not necessarily titling  it "Lost Episodes," however. 

[Stabbey]

You could, I suppose. The thing is though, that the original "Lost Episodes of Doom" wasn't originally conceived of or released as such, but was just a compilation of a bunch of previously released levels repackaged with a "strategy guide" because while you couldn't sell a WAD, you could sell a book. So there wasn't really an intended theme to the level set to begin with.

 

A revisit, though, with new graphics and such might be interesting.

[Arena Chess]

16 minutes ago, Stabbey said:

You could, I suppose. The thing is though, that the original "Lost Episodes of Doom" wasn't originally conceived of or released as such, but was just a compilation of a bunch of previously released levels repackaged with a "strategy guide" because while you couldn't sell a WAD, you could sell a book. So there wasn't really an intended theme to the level set to begin with.

 

A revisit, though, with new graphics and such might be interesting.

I don't know much about the history of the levels themselves, but I did play through a handful of them and thought they were... lackluster. Dropped them mid playthrough. I only recently heard more about the supposed story attached to the levels, and thought that some inspiration could be drawn from that. Loosely.

Edited March 18, 2024 by Arena Chess

[No-Man Baugh]

29 minutes ago, xScavengerWolfx said:

So what i'm reading is basically what they did with Doom 64. Make a whole new map set and call it the lost levels.

To me it sounds more like "do what Snaxolotl did to Doom and Doom II with Stickiness Instillation and Abscission respectively; but to Cristian Kile levels"

Take the general layout or concept of the Lost Levels and apply a fresh coat of modern design philosophy to it. heck, the 1994 Tune-Up Project is probably a more apt comparison, as that's a megawad that takes 90's levels from Maximum Doom and gives them a refresh

And honestly: That sounds like a pretty fun time to me!

Edited March 18, 2024 by No-Man Baugh

[Stabbey]

10 minutes ago, Arena Chess said:

I don't know much about the history of the levels themselves, but I did play through a handful of them and thought they were... lackluster. Dropped them mid playthrough. I only recently heard more about the supposed story attached to the levels, and thought that some inspiration could be drawn from that. Loosely.

 

Yeah, the levels were just some dude's maps, and the story was attached when they were compiled to sell the "strategy guide."

 

A lot of the levels did have some interesting stuff, but it's not anywhere close to the peak of Doom mapping.

[Arena Chess]

29 minutes ago, No-Man Baugh said:

To me it sounds more like "do what Snaxolotl did to Doom and Doom II with Stickiness Instillation and Abscission respectively; but to Cristian Kile levels"

Take the general layout or concept of the Lost Levels and apply a fresh coat of modern design philosophy to it. heck, the 1994 Tune-Up Project is probably a more apt comparison, as that's a megawad that takes 90's levels from Maximum Doom and gives them a refresh

And honestly: That sounds like a pretty fun time to me!

Thanks for this Megawad mention. Gonna have to give it a try. 

[xScavengerWolfx]

2 hours ago, Arena Chess said:

Hm, not quite. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough in what I meant. I'm referring to this old thing: https://doomwiki.org/wiki/The_Lost_Episodes_of_Doom

Taking those ideas and making something new and fun to play with those ideas. Not necessarily titling  it "Lost Episodes," however. 

Oh ok, i have heard of that.

[Helton342]

• Doom The Way Id did it - Lost Episodes.?

 

• Switcheroom - Forgotten Maps

It's not exactly what you're looking for. But it exists

Edited March 18, 2024 by Helton342

[No-Man Baugh]

45 minutes ago, Helton342 said:

• Doom The Way Id did it - Lost Episodes.?

 

• Switcheroom - Forgotten Maps

It's not exactly what you're looking for. But it exists

Not what they're asking for

There's a megawad for Doom 1 called The Lost Episodes of Doom and what they want to see is moreso akin to "Master Levels for Doom II: They Way Klie Didn't"

[Helton342]

3 hours ago, No-Man Baugh said:

Not what they're asking for

There's a megawad for Doom 1 called The Lost Episodes of Doom and what they want to see is moreso akin to "Master Levels for Doom II: They Way Klie Didn't"

As far as i know, that doesn't exist yet

[Maximum Matt]

How about "The Misplaced Episodes"?

BTW, they're all available on Maximum Doom

[Devalaous]

I think the Lost Episodes is the megawad that most deserves a remaster in the vein of @Cammy's excellent Realm of Chaos one. It's better half is by a Master Levels designer, whos previously given permission for BF Thud to be remastered, which has some of the Lost Episode maps in Doom 2 format (A shame that BF Thud remaster went nowhere. Reboot it maybe?), and it has the infamy of being one of the three 'commercial megawads', while not having the quality people expect of that, largely due to Bob Carter's half.

 

There was a ZDoom patch for it that gave it animated skies based on the moons, story text, and lightning effects when in the third episode, but the levels werent touched, so you still had Carter's huge empty spaces and abundance of powerups, and Klie's early nonsense like the 6 cyberdemon deathtrap. Refining the maps to a razor edge would be wonderful, make them feel like something that back in the day you definitely WOULD have shelled out money for.

[Arena Chess]

22 hours ago, Devalaous said:

I think the Lost Episodes is the megawad that most deserves a remaster in the vein of @Cammy's excellent Realm of Chaos one. It's better half is by a Master Levels designer, whos previously given permission for BF Thud to be remastered, which has some of the Lost Episode maps in Doom 2 format (A shame that BF Thud remaster went nowhere. Reboot it maybe?), and it has the infamy of being one of the three 'commercial megawads', while not having the quality people expect of that, largely due to Bob Carter's half.

 

There was a ZDoom patch for it that gave it animated skies based on the moons, story text, and lightning effects when in the third episode, but the levels werent touched, so you still had Carter's huge empty spaces and abundance of powerups, and Klie's early nonsense like the 6 cyberdemon deathtrap. Refining the maps to a razor edge would be wonderful, make them feel like something that back in the day you definitely WOULD have shelled out money for.

This is the first I'm hearing of BF_THUD!. I went and had a peek. I like vintage DOOM stuff. It's interesting. Definitely gonna have to check that out some time in the future, so thanks for the mention.

 

As for RoC 25th Anniversary Edition, I'm also keeping an eye on that for when it's a final release. I have such an outrageous backlog that I don't wanna get sidetracked, but I'm very excited for that one. Also Realm of Chaos 2: The Revenge of '96! and Perdition's Gate Resurgence are projects I'm following. Just finished a playthrough of the original Perdition's Gate recently.

 

Anyway, as for remasters or remakes I definitely hope The Lost Episodes get more consideration some day.