SIGIL II: Almost 4 months after its release, what is the general opinion on it?

[Roebloz]

If I'm being honest, when I played SIGIL II when it released I...Didn't really enjoy it that much. The weirdly blue sky mixed with the red textures was already enough to weird me out, but the level design was just all over the place and I didn't even manage to get past E6M6 I don't think. (The best level for me was the secret level)

The disappointment of it only being a Doom 1 WAD again certainly did not help it in getting any merits. But, what's the general community consensus?

 

Did you guys find it a fun sequel, or thought it was just mediocre confusing maps like me? Let me know, I'm curious!

[Tangra]

You didn't like the blue sky with the red, hellish textures? What type of sky do you prefer for a hell episode, other than the overused, cliche red sky, or the orange episode 4 one? You know, there used to be a time when the skies didn't have to be the same color as the rest of the textures in the maps. Now we have examples of entire map sets being dominated by one color for everything, and to be honest, i find that to be quite boring.

I think Romero's choice was a nice change - 6 episodes, all with different skies. Also, a dark/night sky was something that was missing in the previous episodes.

[LadyMistDragon]

I liked it, but it's pretty safe to say it's a minority opinion in much of the community here on Doomworld, and there are a few reasons why.

 

For instance,  the aesthetic was muddier than in the original. While it still carries the wad imo, I've seen people on Discord who've compared it to 90s shovelware. I don't think that's a bad thing necessarily because it contains a certain amount of janky charm. But E6M3 for instance had some visual choices that were rather eye-brow raising with how much clashing was going on in that aspect. That's the worst example though. 

 

More generally though.....people are rather tiring of the gimmicks here. Romero placing a Cyberdemon in every map on UV was.....certainly a choice and also, people find the first Sigil to be more atmospheric because of its possessing a greater emphasis on darkness and didn't like John would go with something a little bit more garish and quite ugly. for the second Sigil. Which I find a little strange because it's obvious John was trying hard not to totally repeat himself, which was kind of a risk of making yet one more and still largely hell-themed Doom 1 episode

 

I've also seen complaints about the 30-second secret-closing gimmick but that seems like a more petty complaint than the rest.

 

No one has said much about the soundtrack, so I won't either. I do know there were people who didn't like how the MP3 soundtrack by Bryant "Thorr" Lowery was not atmospheric like Buckethead's was to a degree but neither that nor the quality of Jimmy's entirely bespoke (unlike Sigil 1) soundtrack has had much reception if any. Really too bad, because this is really one of Jimmy's best efforts in recent years (outside Eviternity 2 of course!). 

 

Honestly when that occurred to me, I think Eviternity II may have stole SIGIL II's thunder in part because of the design goals being essentially polar opposites. Whereas Sigil reflects a certain modernized design based in the 90s, Eviternity II pushes the limits of non GZDoom ports. 

[espilka]

SI666IL was incredible, and SI666IL II is even better.  it's as good as any Episode i've ever played, and better than 90% of them.  of all the bizarre complaints the most bizarre is probably that it's a D1 Episode.  so disappionted with a D1 episode because it is a D1 episode?

 

level design all over the place...?  Cyberdemon on UV in every mission is a reason to complain about it?  in a world where people simply ABUSE the USE of Cybies for surprise and shock value?  they weren't misplaced here...  anyway, i think i'll be quiet (on my way out under my breath i'll mutter that i'd like to see some prominent sets made by prominent people around here being criticized for being all over the place in their level design...)

 

why isn't this thread closed for being negative, with a cynical dismissive remark like 'enjoy what you enjoy'...  ok ok i'll go!

[Roebloz]

1 hour ago, espilka said:

SI666IL was incredible, and SI666IL II is even better.  it's as good as any Episode i've ever played, and better than 90% of them.  of all the bizarre complaints the most bizarre is probably that it's a D1 Episode.  so disappionted with a D1 episode because it is a D1 episode?

 

level design all over the place...?  Cyberdemon on UV in every mission is a reason to complain about it?  in a world where people simply ABUSE the USE of Cybies for surprise and shock value?  they weren't misplaced here...  anyway, i think i'll be quiet (on my way out under my breath i'll mutter that i'd like to see some prominent sets made by prominent people around here being criticized for being all over the place in their level design...)

 

why isn't this thread closed for being negative, with a cynical dismissive remark like 'enjoy what you enjoy'...  ok ok i'll go!

I wasn't even talking about the Cyberdemons since I was playing on HMP.

Anyway, this thread isn't trying to be negative, it's only here to share my own opinion on the matter and see what others opinions are.

[Cutman 999]

I mean, sigil 1 is definitely better, sigil 2 may have some questionable stuff but it isn't "bad" overall. Definitely gets better on replay, a thing I learned after completing like 3 playthroughs of it in uv.

[Celestin]

The only constant I've seen is how E6M1 is a complete ball buster and one of, if not the hardest maps in the set.

[Andromeda]

10 hours ago, espilka said:

why isn't this thread closed for being negative, with a cynical dismissive remark like 'enjoy what you enjoy'...  ok ok i'll go! 

Threads aren't closed for expressing a mildly negative opinion with respect.

 

On topic, I haven't played it but I feel having the same two gimmicks (Cyberdemon and 30 second secrets) on every level kinda makes it predictable. That said I thought SIGIL was great despite not being particularly thrilled from what I read of it as well, so maybe I'll like the sequel too.

[Li'l devil]

It ended up being super overhyped and overrated!! Just like Eviternity 2!!!!!!!!!

[ClumsyCryptid]

I expected a better boss level to the episode, and not a beefed up Spider Mastermind with double the amount of health, but I did like the Gotcha! style setup for it.

It's passable as a wad, but is overhyped because of Romero.

[Bedingungsl.Grundeinkommen]

I don't care who's the author of a WAD. All I can say is that I think both SIGIL I & II are as good as it gets. I love both, and I like everything about them. Everything makes sense to me and I just dig it. The level design, both soundtracks each, the aesthetics. I did not play SIGIL II on UV, but I think on HMP it is perfect for casual/rather easy runs where you pistol start each map and aim for 100% kills and secrets (SIGIL was ok for me on UV, but not SIGIL II). I found the secret level and almost always all secrets in each level.

 

I enjoyed it so much that it even made me think DOOM is already perfect the way it is and there is no need for all the additional content that DOOM II brought to the table. I am pointing this out because when SIGIL was announced or when Romero was working on his two new maps for the first episode of DOOM, I was also one of those people who would have preferred him doing something based on DOOM II. But after SIGIL I & II I even wish he would make a seventh episode for DOOM because the flow when you play through both episodes is just so nice and everything is just so well done. I have no idea how some can dislike them so much. I am not trying to prove a point, but I would honestly like to know what DOOM (1) WADs are even better than SIGIL I & II.

 

Playing through SIGIL I & II made me very much looking forward to HELLION. By the way there was this 33rd anniversary of id stream not long ago and when mentioning HELLION, Romero gave a reaction that hinted he might find it difficult to finish HELLION by the time it's supposed to be done. I just hope he takes all the time he needs. I'd be willing to wait for years as long as it's good.

[LadyMistDragon]

3 hours ago, Bedingungsl.Grundeinkommen said:

I am not trying to prove a point, but I would honestly like to know what DOOM (1) WADs are even better than SIGIL I & II.

 

 

Solar Struggle and No End in Sight. I could name some others but then, it would become more debatable imo. Design philosophies are kind of different though.

[JackDBS]

It was ok. Personally I'm getting kinda annoyed of the vanilla-esque shit at this point like Plutonia 2, TNT Revilution, Plutonia Revisited, Plutonia Revisited 2, TNT Devilution (nice name), Sigil, Doom the way id did, Doom the way id did 2, Plutonia 3, TNT Threevilution, No End In Sight, Doom I...(falls asleep)

[ReaperAA]

To quote myself from DWMC thread:
 

Quote

So, what do I think about Sigil 2? I think it is a solid wad and there are plenty of nice setpieces and varied visuals here. It is definitely worth playing, not just because it is made by Romero himself, but as a genuinely good Doom 1 wad. Definitely one of the stronger Doom 1 wads I have played (not that I have played many anyway).

 

All that said though, Sigil 2 isn't without its shortcomings. Difficulty curve is all over the place (the very first map being the 2nd hardest map of the wad imho) and the level design quality also varies quite a bit, especially when compared against the original Sigil. The best maps here are arguably better than the best maps of the 1st Sigil, but the worst map, E6M8, is probably one of the weakest maps Romero has ever made since Gotcha!

 

Now the question is, is it better than the original Sigil? Playing Sigil 1 again just before playing Sigil 2, I think I might have enjoyed Sigil 2 a little more. But I do think the 1st is more accessible and smoother due to the more balanced difficulty curve and less blind unfriendly compared to Sigil 2

 

As for my favorites, I think I will go with these:

E6M7: Descent Into Terror

E6M9: Shattered Homecoming

E6M6: Vengeance Unleashed

 

Difficulty wise, these are the 3 hardest in my opinion:

E6M6: Vengeance Unleashed

E6M1: Cursed Darkness 

E6M5: Wrathful Reckoning

 

In addition, I would like to add that I didn't mind the 30 second secrets. Initially, I was very skeptical about the idea, but when every map has a 30 second secret, you come to expect it. The "atleast 1 cyber on every map in UV" rule however I am mixed about. In some maps, the cyber is a great addition. But in others, he is just a bullet sponge. E6M2 in particular could done without the "chaingunning a cyberdemon to death" part.

[june gloom]

I thought the first SIGIL was a wild ride, a fantastic new paradigm that shattered a lot of conventions about what we expect in a Doom map, especially a Doom 1 map. SIGIL 2 was very good (disappointing last level aside) but it also felt more like something the broader community would have made, which IMO isn't as interesting. I do appreciate the techbase levels he did, though. And the blue sky is a nice touch.

[Ludi]

Its really mid, I thought it was disappointing. It feels like most of the risks Romero tried to take didn't really make the levels more engaging. The custom textures are really odd and don't fit doom 1s style at all. It's an aesthetic nightmare but not in a really interesting way. It makes me wonder why I wouldn't just play Sigil 1 again :p

 

That being said the new streaky FIREWALL texture is tight as fuck and I'm absolutely using that. The soundtrack is pretty good too although I think I also prefer the OST in Sigil 1.

 

I feel like I should like Sigil 2 more considering I like pain simulator games like Pathologic, but it feels really sloppy in a way that Sigil 1 didn't.

 

 

[Cutman 999]

23 hours ago, LadyMistDragon said:

Solar Struggle and No End in Sight. I could name some others but then, it would become more debatable imo. Design philosophies are kind of different though.

Fr solar struggle is peak doom 1 shit, and that's just a community project!

[DJVCardMaster]

Feels like a great step back in every sense. a lot of pointy-shaped sectors giving shape to the levels, ugly detailing, annoying or unorthodox terrain to play, platforming, 100% unfriendly with those mandatory cyberdemons at awkward areas, uninteresting aesthetic. Sigil 1 was good, it wasn't great, but it was really good to see some new work from the man itself.

Feels like Romero got stuck in bad habits after developing the first Sigil. I would like to see him improve a little bit in other aspects of mapping, and also try with Doom 2 format. To see how he manages with the extended beastiary after all these years.

If you are a fan of Romero's work, you should give it a try, if you did not like Sigil 1 or barely liked it, its sequel is not that recommended, in my opinion.

[Bedingungsl.Grundeinkommen]

On 4/6/2024 at 3:14 AM, LadyMistDragon said:

Solar Struggle and No End in Sight. I could name some others but then, it would become more debatable imo. Design philosophies are kind of different though.

 

Thank you.