Door Design Discussion

[Xemonix]

Recently, I noticed the lack of a universal standard for designing and texturing doors in maps. There are no conventions for the thickness of doors, how much they should be indented into the wall, or which textures should be used on the walls on both sides of the door. The same goes for the door track texture and the bottom flat. While I get that some of these, like thickness and indentation, heavily depend on the map itself, its style and theme, other features bother me quite a bit. Like how some doors use DOORTRAK as their track texture, others use DOORSTOP or SUPPORT3, some don't even have a door track and just use the texture of the surrounding walls. Some doors are completely flat in relation to the wall while some are nicely indented with lights.

Some highlights from Doom II:

Spoiler

Doom II seems to be very inconsistent with its door texturing

1. MAP01, 8 units thick (which seems a bit too thin for such a massive door), uses FLAT20 for the bottom (which is quite common), indented 8 units from the blue room side with misaligned wall textures
2. MAP13, uses a random ground flat for its bottom for whatever reason, only has blue key indicator on one side, no door track. A really strange door
3. MAP03, uses CRATOP2 as its bottom texture (probably to match the color of the door itself?)
4. MAP16, uses FLAT20, for the bottom, indented with DOORSTOPs
5. MAP17, 16 units thick now, FLAT20 once again, indented with LITE5 (which I really like) but only on one side
6. MAP15, hilariously huge, 32 units thick, quadruple key indicator on both sides, uses another random ground flat for its bottom and SUPPORT3 as the door track?? Another bizarre door

 

 

Also, here are some doors from popular WADs:

Spoiler

 

• Hell Revealed

• Moonblood

• Alien Vendetta

• Sunlust

 

 

Designs vary from WAD to WAD, from map to map within single WADs, and even door to door in those maps. A lot of these difference are deliberate choices, but there are a lot of cases where it's pretty clear that it's a mistake or an oversight. I have yet to find a popular, large WAD with consistent door designs.

 

For me, the perfect door is 8 or 16 units thick with DOORTRAK or DOORSTOP (only for 8-unit thick doors) as the track texture, indented 16 units into the wall on both sides with LITE5 or LITEBLU4 (or the respective strips for key doors), and either FLAT20 (no conditions) or the surrounding ceiling flat (in case they are the same on both sides of the door) as the bottom flat. While there are certainly many exceptions to these "rules", I always ensure that my doors have a track texture, are not completely flat, and have a consistent design within each map.

What are your thoughts on door design in maps? Do you have any specific rules or guidelines you follow when choosing textures and shapes of your doors? Have you ever struggled with inconsistent door designs in your maps?

[97th Century Fox]

Only good door design is no door B)

[Stabbey]

I like doors which are indented into the wall by at least 8 units and are 16 units thick. DOORTRAK or DOORSTOP is the usual texture for the sides, but usually TRAK. I find that those look the best to me. I may not always have space available so I will tweak if needed. FLAT 20 is the standard choice for the underside of tech doors.

 

I tend to vary my key indicator depending on map, but in my later years I've grown to like indenting the key indicator as well.

[Sesamia]

As far as door dimensions go, I indent them by either 8, 16, 24, 32, or 64 units depending on the wall texture I want to use.  This varies between support textures, DOORSTOP, various light textures, and some COMP/TECH textures and may include more than one texture.

 

The door thickness is either 8, 16, or 24 units which also depends on the wall texture I want to use for the door track.  I almost always use DOORTRAK, but sometimes I'll use a support texture or metal texture.

 

These days I prefer bars instead of full on doors for my key doors.  Nearly all of my non-key "doors" are actually just progression through monster closets, and I don't have any particular rules for texturing them or how they're supposed to look.

[rita remton]

as an amateur mapper, i don't know how to integrate keys in my maps yet. i currently understand that keys are for maps with non-linear map flow(?), but my maps are currently linear to semi-linear (have a somewhat "metroidvania" design) at most. so currently, there are no locked keyed doors in my maps. there are however locked doors that are opened by switches not far from them.

Edited April 6 by rita remton

[RataUnderground]

All of these examples of doors, and many others, are perfectly valid. There is no need to have a "standard".

[Xemonix]

20 minutes ago, RataUnderground said:

All of these examples of doors, and many others, are perfectly valid. There is no need to have a "standard".

Exactly, and I'm not saying there is. That's kinda the point of the topic. Perhaps, I might have worded it poorly. The examples are there just to showcase the variety and some oddities, not to show how "bad"/"good" these designs are.

Edited April 5 by Xemonix

[Stabbey]

4 hours ago, rita remton said:

as a amateur mapper, i don't know how to integrate keys in my maps yet. i currently understand that keys are for maps with non-linear map flow(?), but my maps are currently linear to semi-linear (have a somewhat "metroidvania" design) at most. so currently, there are no locked keyed doors in my maps. there are however locked doors that are opened by switches not far from them.

 

Keys are also for maps with linear flow. For instance start with a big square room. Make four hallways leading out of it. Put locked doors on three of them. Build the hallways to areas how you see fit, one key at the hall without a door, the other two keys behind doors in sequence and the exit behind the final door with the last key. That's just as linear as building one room after another in a line.

 

If you're unsure how to proceed, try adding one door to your linear maps which goes in a different direction and has some health or resources. Ta-da, a bit of non-linearity. I'm not sure Doom qualifies as a metroidvania, he's got one tool at his disposal, gun. Also it's funny that you mention not knowing how to integrate keys in one breath, and saying your maps have a metroidvania-esque design, because the powerups and new tools you get in metroidvanias are just a fancy kind of key.

[Chris Hansen]

On a slightly related note @boris kindly suggested to me when he played through Hell’s Bane, that I color code doors in a way where silver doors are  normally opened (keys or directly), green doors are remotely opened and brown doors are hybrids. I had never thought about that, but could defintely see the logic in it. It’s probably good practice to keep things slightly logical throughout a level or episodes no matter how you choose to design a door so as to not confuse the player too much.

Edited April 5 by Chris Hansen

[Fonze]

I don't think there's a right or wrong way to do them. The most important thing is to recognize that they are a trope you can establish as a mapper, just like many other things, and that in some cases you may want them to remain consistent while in others you may want to change them up.

 

There is an expectation of what a door should be/look like, common tropes we all use such as particular textures/flats, or widths/depths, or not having them rise into a blank sky, etc. which will be different for each person, but much as trying to discuss the metaphysical definition of a door irl, there will be too many specifics to nail it down to anything other than the general term "threshold."

 

That's not to say the idea for the discussion is pointless tho, it is cool to read how others approach their door logic design!

[Kor]

My doors these days are eight units in, 16 units thick.  Since I use GZDoom, sometimes I make each side of the door frame have sloped ceilings, making them look kinda arched. The texture I use in tekbase levels is always doortrak, in hell/midieval levels I try to use a rustic metal texture. For the underside, the texture varies based on the texture of the door. And the textures at the sides of the door frames tends to vary. Sometimes I use a transition texture, other times the texture matches that of the wall the door is in.

 

On a side note, walls between close rooms are almost always 32 units thick, no matter the environment. I do this because it looks nice on the automap. I've been doing it for decades.

Edited April 5 by Kor

[FraggerX]

My doors are weird

 

[rita remton]

12 hours ago, Stabbey said:

 

Keys are also for maps with linear flow. For instance start with a big square room. Make four hallways leading out of it. Put locked doors on three of them. Build the hallways to areas how you see fit, one key at the hall without a door, the other two keys behind doors in sequence and the exit behind the final door with the last key. That's just as linear as building one room after another in a line.

 

yeah, that makes sense. thanks! :) i also forgot that one of my maps does have a locked blue keyed door, "tiny tangle", because i wanted to try to use a key, but the purpose of it was somehow lost due to the key being near the corresponding locked door :P (might as well just use a switch). bad item placement, i guess.
 

13 hours ago, Stabbey said:

Also it's funny that you mention not knowing how to integrate keys in one breath, and saying your maps have a metroidvania-esque design

 

i've never played metroid and castlevania before. my map being "metroidvania"-esque was originally from a comment by another player on discord when i told about the characteristics of my map having sections of it being disconnected then rejoined to the rest of the map to help with navigation (so that the player does not wander off too far from switches essential for progression). anyway, i looked on steam on metroidvania games and it seems they are not my type of genre :P

 

13 hours ago, Stabbey said:

because the powerups and new tools you get in metroidvanias are just a fancy kind of key.

 

woah! that's a new way on how to look at them. i always thought they were just providing more options for the player and not something compulsory for map progression. for instance, if i gave the player a rocket launcher for the cybie, but the player could just use the ssg instead.

that was very insightful, stabbey, and i learnt a few things too. thanks! :)

[Mordeth]

The Door Problem

[taufan99]

As long as you properly lower unpeg the sides, there should be no problem for me.

[Rykzeon]

How to make a good Door design:

1. It must stands out from others / not blending with surrounding area, so player doesn't mistake them as something else and missed the door entirely (unless secret). Also, light them well or else player can miss them (unless secret).
2. It must screaming "Hi, I'm a door that you can open". You can also add more like "Hi, I'm a door that only open if you possess certain key" and/or "Hi, I'm a door that only open when a switch is activated", etc. Be consistent of it, or else you watching player wandering aimlessly^{'you can argue its technically not a door but a shootable switch'}. Preferably, provide some example of it with map linearity.
3. Treat every texture as actual material building.
4. Make them proportional to surroundings.

 

In short, telegraph it correctly and don't make it look trash.

Edited April 6 by Rykzeon

[Stabbey]

3 hours ago, rita remton said:

woah! that's a new way on how to look at them. i always thought they were just providing more options for the player and not something compulsory for map progression. for instance, if i gave the player a rocket launcher for the cybie, but the player could just use the ssg instead.

that was very insightful, stabbey, and i learnt a few things too. thanks! :)

 

They do both things. It's more options for the player in combat, and acquiring them lets you access areas you couldn't before; hence they're also keys.

[dasfrodo]

6 hours ago, FraggerX said:

My doors are weird

 

 

This video reminds me of running games on my 400 MHz PC back in the day which definitely were not supposed to run on that system.

[Fonze]

5 hours ago, Mordeth said:

The Door Problem

Quote

Monetization Designer: “We could charge the player $.99 to open the door now, or wait 24 hours for it to open automatically.”

...

Player: “I totally didn’t even notice a door there.”

Based on the uselessness of the article to this context, the general ridiculousness of it, and particularly these two examples quoted above, I'm guessing this is a joke, in which case it's quite reductive of the entire design process and this discussion. Maybe it makes sense for a big studio designing a modern cover shooter, but for a bunch of hobbyists making a very different type of game this is kind of a horrible take.

 

I've seen some good discussion on doors on this very forum, outside of this thread. Doors can be a huge detriment to a map's flow when done poorly to the point that I've heard some reasonably argue against their inclusion in maps (albeit mostly mp maps in this case). Doors can also lead to rote chokepoints, leading to a cover-based encounter that many players will find to be more bland than just running in. Doors can also be used as breadcrumbs or mini-objectives to serve in those fleeting moments between combat encounters, and often can cleanly cut off areas from one another, helping with player navigation and parsing of the map. They have so many uses and misuses that I think reducing the topic down to an attempt-at-a-joke-article who's main point is that the player wont notice a door anyway is like blindly charging away from a decent conversation with your fingers in your ears shouting random syllables in a vain effort to not hear any more of this clear idiocy. If done right, maybe players shouldn't notice each and every door; we do remember more things that we didn't like than things that were 'okay I guess,' but that doesn't make the decision of how to implement them any less important to the design process.

 

Unless if you were posting that because it's not meant to be taken seriously and involves door discussion, in which case then lol.

[FraggerX]

3 hours ago, dasfrodo said:

 

This video reminds me of running games on my 400 MHz PC back in the day which definitely were not supposed to run on that system.

Me:

"Look at my door"

Everyone:

"The video sucks"

🤣🤣🤣🤣

[yakfak]

a lot of my old doors are boring... illuminated frames enclosing a 8px trak at both ends with a symmetrical gap on each side of the door frame. don't do that, i kinda regret it. also it didn't help anyone understand the flow at all lol

it kinda comes from thinking about rooms being discreet areas and the connection being punctuation. whereas cooler doors add a transition which continues or transforms the theme from one side to the other. or that's what's potentially good about doing architecture featuring doors, it's easier to screw them up than make them worthwhile

 

as for which is more irritating re: unpegging dogma vs doors-in-combat dogma i say it's a tie? i think incidental door cheese suits incidental combat and, if a door messes up your arena, that arena probably needs a little mechanical attention to prevent the door being the most tempting way to beat it (unless you like playing like that?). and in recent maps i've been tagging one doortrak, or whatever, but not the opposite one. or having doors which attach to the wall only once on the left but like seven times on the right to create weird, impractical, uncanny artifact-like mechanisms. asymmetrical doors are a nice style decision, doors which are actually lifts are a nice style decision, doors which are a tight series of instafloors to simulate a swinging or sliding door are a nice style decision etc but standardization is a terrible style decision

[dasfrodo]

2 hours ago, FraggerX said:

Me:

"Look at my door"

Everyone:

"The video sucks"

🤣🤣🤣🤣

 

I mean it's literally like 1 FPS lol

[FraggerX]

2 hours ago, dasfrodo said:

 

I mean it's literally like 1 FPS lol

I agree. Slideshow.👍

However, I never said "my videos are weird".

[Mordeth]

5 hours ago, Fonze said:

a horrible take

 

No, you just did that.

[Horus]

The best door is the baron of hell ;)

[Rykzeon]

6 hours ago, Horus said:

The best door is the baron of hell ;)

Groundbreaking technological development from Wolfenstein 3D to Doom. Too bad its only openable by repeatly shoot it like a jamming moving door.

[CblBOPOTKA]

From gravity.wad

[Kappes Buur]

Since this is a discussion I give my two cents:

 

In Doom mapping a standard of any kind should be left to the individual map author.

So what if a door has a 4 or 16 thickness, as long as the door works and is textured

properly any door construction is acceptable.

 

The real question for me is the design of the door.

The IWADs gave us the rollup door, while effective they becomes rather boring.

 

What a pleasant surprise it was to see a "swinging" door in Eternal Doom.

Spoiler

 

Some mappers set out to investigate what can be done with the door design to

make doors more exciting, like the sideways split sliding door in ADONIS_rc1

Spoiler

 

or the transparent door in DooM Resurrection

Spoiler

 

or the doors in DBP_62_Haunting Hollow and DBP_65_Sanguine Holy Land

Spoiler

 

 

 

And of course there are the doors in GZDoom, polyobject doors to move, swing and rotate

and doors made from 3D sectors and models (MD3, wavefront), or the impressive portal.

And all the cool things you can do with scripts.

 

I wonder what will come next.

 

 

Edited May 29 by Kappes Buur

[TheHambourgeois]

I love crazy weird doors. The giant, 64mu doors from ogrelabs stand out as cool doors. I almost always lean on 16mu doors with 8 or 24mu inlets, but I also mix in 32mu doors with 16mu inlets. I am a slave to the grid.

[Krankebok]

This gave me the best looking results for doors:

-The whole door sector is almost always 64 map units deep.

-Door itself is 16 mapunits.

-For the doorsides i use always DOORTRAK as texture.

-On both sides of doors i used the DOORSTOP texture for the most time.

-For the outer 16 mapunits i use either lights, support or one of the keybar textures.

-For the bottom i use for the techdoor types FLAT20, for the silver/shawn type doors FLAT23, for woody doors FLAT5_1 and for that browny skull door seen in plutonia i use CEIL5_2.

 

Here is a example of how i design a door: