Should DOOM 1 have achievements?

[DemonCake]

On steam the original doom doesn't have achievements at that has confused me. Doom has achievements on playstation and xbox. Somehow doom 64 has achievements! What achievements should be in the game?

[Murdoch]

I legitimately do not know why anybody cares about achievements. Popup says "Hey you did random thing!". Um, so what?

Edited April 12 by Murdoch

[No-Man Baugh]

A Betrayal to Sewer Lovers

Attempt to access E1M10 or Map 33

[DNSKILL5]

An achievement for starting the game, an achievement for moving forward, backwards, strafing left and right, pressing fire, shooting a former human, shooting a former sarge, shooting an imp, shooting a demon, shooting a spectre, shooting a cacodemon, shooting a lost soul, shooting a bruiser brother, shooting a hell baron, achievements for killing them for the first time as well, achievement for killing the cyberdemon and for the spider mastermind, achievement for opening a door, achievement for finding a secret, achievement for exiting a level, achievement for using the automap, achievement for dying, achievement for beating level 1, level 2, level 3, level 4, level 5, level 6, level 7, level 8, level 9, level 10, level 11, level 12, level 13, level 14, level 15, level 16, level 17, level 18, level 19, level 20, level 21, level 22, level 23, level 24, level 25, level 26, level 27, level 28, level 29, level 30, level 31, level 32, level 33, level 34, level 35, and level 36, achievement for using use, achievement for finding backpack, achievement for pressing pause, achievement for selecting a selection, achievement for finding a key, achievement for getting 100% kills, achievement for 100% items, achievement for 100% secrets, achievement for 100% everything at the same time, achievement for finding every gun, achievement for using the BFG, achievement for using the chainsaw, achievement for getting a frag, achievement for losing a frag, achievement for getting fragged, achievement for not skipping the end texts, achievement for viewing the credits, achievement for using bathroom, etc. 

[SPG]

To answer the title's question: the game "should" have them as much as most any other game. I personally say why not?

To answer the question posed in the text (what achievements should there be), I first needed to know what they were in the PSX and XBOX versions:
https://retroachievements.org/game/11256
https://www.xboxachievements.com/game/doom-1993/achievements/
I'm not going to bother with Doom 64 or other Doom games, and I'd like to see if I could think up ones that would be fun not already included in the PSX or XBOBX. Here are my ideas:

• Get more than 100% kills in a level
• Collect 100% of the items in a level
• Gib 10 enemies in a single level
• Complete a level without taking any damage
• Get 100% kills using only your fists in a level
• Beat the Par time for a level
• Defeat the Spider Mastermind in Dis without using the BFG

[SilentD00mer]

As a player who likes to get achievements in any other games, I don't feel like Doom needs something like this. Well, Doom it's a very simple game(and I love this) and was born in a time we didn't have any "achievements system" I guess, so I really don't care about achievements for Doom.

[Danfun64]

Doom 1 has achivements in both the version sold in the Microsoft Store as well as in Doom 3 BFG on Steam.

[Chuma]

Achievements used to be a story or anecdote you share to your friends, nowadays i see it more like "Well a thing to say you completed the game 100%" , Doom in Xbox 360 and also Wolfenstein 3D (PS3) had achievements... i remember them, but nowadays i don't care about them that much.

 

I think they may add it at some point but it would be a reason to replay the Unity port (i don't see this being implemented in any sourceport other than Unity)

 

At least those are my thoughts about it.

[ALilGrayBoi]

achievements for completionists 

Beat the game on every skill level

UV max every level

100% secrets every level on nightmare 

Beat the best time thingy in the intermission screen on every level 

 

Casual achievements

telefrag a monster

gib an enemy with a berserk

gib 5 enemies with the rocket launcher 

Land 15 tracers with the bfg 

100% any level 

beat every episode 

[QuaketallicA]

2 hours ago, Murdoch said:

I legitimately do not know why anybody cares about achievements. Popup says "Hey you did random thing!". Um, so what?

 

Thank you! I feel the same way! I don't see any benefit in retro-actively adding them to games that previously didn't have them.

 

I mean, it's a nice thing in modern games that when you beat Chapter X of story mode, you get a nice popup or after-game "achievement" telling you you've done so and so, and that's fine and all, but I've never felt a need to got hunting for achievements, in most games. They're a nice thing to try and unlock if it's reasonably feasible, but I wouldn't ever stress or obsess about getting them all. There will always be a couple you miss for whatever reason (usually the multiplayer achievements.)

[Osmosis Bones]

Absolutely. Matter of fact they should also add a battle pass, lootcrates, cosmetics, the list goes on

[Devalaous]

56 minutes ago, QuaketallicA said:

I don't see any benefit in retro-actively adding them to games that previously didn't have them.

 

There are people that will not buy modern games without achievements to earn, so there's an obvious reason to include them: more money.

 

The unity ports already have achievements on Sony and Microsoft systems, and they were retroactively added to Quake and Quake 2, so its kind of weird that Doom got the short end of the stick, its not THAT difficult to add them to games that didn't have them prior (I helped out with the implementation of Terraria's achievements)

[Lucius Wooding]

Yes, and they should also add bluetooth to the Ford Model T.

[Shepardus]

It is a bit weird that the game has achievements on Playstation and Xbox but not Steam, but I also don't really care. I've never played Doom on Steam, and adding achievements isn't going to make me go back for them. Not when I've got level tables to fill in dsda-doom.

[Logamuffin]

3 hours ago, Murdoch said:

I legitimately do not know why anybody cares about achievements. Popup says "Hey you did random thing!". Um, so what?

 

For certain games, achievements can actually be a really great tool for enhancing replayability for an already great game and encouraging different gameplay styles. For example: Half-Life 2: Ep 2’s infamous gnome achievement. I like them, and there are plenty of games I’ve purposefully achievement hunted on just to get a new flavor out of them.

That being said, Doom is not one of those games where achievements would really work because good achievements have to be designed around, and Doom was obviously released before achievements existed. Feels like the console games have them mostly to make the game feel more “modern” in the laziest way possible. It could be done well though.

 

3 hours ago, DNSKILL5 said:

An achievement for starting the game, an achievement for moving forward, backwards, strafing left and right, pressing fire, shooting a former human, shooting a former sarge, shooting an imp, shooting a demon, shooting a spectre, shooting a cacodemon.   (…)   , etc. 

 

I’m imagining a joke mod where random stupid achievements pop up every 5 seconds while you’re playing. Admittedly, it would stop being funny after 5 seconds too, but it could make for a good gag.

[jmac]

1 hour ago, Logamuffin said:

 

For certain games, achievements can actually be a really great tool for enhancing replayability for an already great game and encouraging different gameplay styles. For example: Half-Life 2: Ep 2’s infamous gnome achievement. I like them, and there are plenty of games I’ve purposefully achievement hunted on just to get a new flavor out of them.

I looked up what this gnome acheivement is, and i'm still baffled why anyone would want this. Whenever i've seen an acheivment pop up while playing a game, it's only ever been a mild annoyance to me.

Edited April 12 by jmac

[roadworx]

what? no. there's a stat screen at the end to show you if you've gotten 100% in any of the categories or if you've beaten the par time, and we have demo sharing and dsda for everything else. why is it necessary to have a redundant popup telling you that you've done something when it's already showing you that you've done it?

[Devalaous]

1 hour ago, Logamuffin said:

That being said, Doom is not one of those games where achievements would really work because good achievements have to be designed around, and Doom was obviously released before achievements existed. Feels like the console games have them mostly to make the game feel more “modern” in the laziest way possible. It could be done well though.

 

My dude, theres an *entire* community out there that painstakingly studies the memory of old games to add achievements to every old system under the sun, and yes, the console ports of Doom are largely supported. I'm not super into this site myself, as I only bother with achievements if my emulator of choice natively links up to RA, but there's been a whole bunch of games with achievements that highlighted easter eggs, strange bugs, or presented a unique challenge I'd never think of. I never saw the bad ending of Abe's Oddysey till I played it on Duckstation and went for an evil run to tick off the final two achievements, and I was stunned to find out if your a total ass and kill the vast majority, you get 'rewarded' by being sent back to an earlier point of the game with infinite grenades. So theres definitely some merit to giving them to older games, you just need creative developers.

 

8 minutes ago, jmac said:

I looked up what this gnome acheivement is, and i'm still baffled why anyone would want this.

 

Its a popular challenge, thats why. People always make up challenges for games to play them in weird new ways, like that ridiculous Stroller thing for Doom. The 'escort a garden gnome a ridiculous length' one was popular enough, it made a return in Left 4 Dead 2, and I had a lot of fun coordinating with my friends to get that thing from the start of the campaign, all the way to the extraction. Its a lot harder than I thought it would be, and we all were cheering on the voicechat when we finally did it. It might just be a 'dumb little picture with words' in menus for the game, but we can all look at the unlocked entry in the menu and look back on that little moment.

[RataUnderground]

No. No game should have achievements. They're only detrimental.

[Doom-X-Machina]

The only achievement you need is finishing the game.

[kwc]

13 minutes ago, RataUnderground said:

No. No game should have achievements. They're only detrimental.

Can you explain your reasoning? I understand somebody not caring about them or even disliking them enough to turn off notifications, but I’m wondering how or why they are detrimental, or what they are detrimental to.

[Dimon12321]

6 hours ago, Murdoch said:

I legitimately do not know why anybody cares about achievements. Popup says "Hey you did random thing!". Um, so what?

What "what"? Dopamine rush, jumping up from the couch, orgasm, a tide of pride. Especially from PlayStation's "Platinum". 
(I don't know how close it is to the truth, but judging by how many people request achievements for random games, I assume, that's a possible outcome those people expect to have)

[RataUnderground]

1 hour ago, kwc said:

Can you explain your reasoning? I understand somebody not caring about them or even disliking them enough to turn off notifications, but I’m wondering how or why they are detrimental, or what they are detrimental to.

Achievements are "gamification" of leisure time on top of the actual game. They are a mechanism that distracts from the game itself to focus the player's attention on a metagame of adiction suited for consumerism. No game is better for having achievements, and many good games are peppered with annoying interruptions placed there so that instead of enjoying the game, players understand it as a checklist to go through.

[Stupid Bunny]

I don't intrinsically object to the idea of achievements--as @roadworx and others have pointed out, Doom already kind of comes with such a thing with the secrets and kill counters and par and whatnot--but there's definitely diminishing returns to be had on the "achievement" of achievements and the dopamine potential and such when there's just so damn many of them.  My old favorite trivia website Sporcle (play my quizzes lol) is a great example of this where there used to be only a very small number of "badges" you could win for doing certain things.  Because there were so few, each one really did feel like I was achieving something, even if it was something stupid like playing three Groundhog Day related quizzes on Groundhog Day or whatever.  Nowadays, there's so many fucking badges and levels of badges that I swear I get one like every two quizzes I play.  They're not achievements anymore, they're a damned nuisance and I don't give a shit when I see them anymore.

 

In terms of in-game achievements like what Steam and XBox and stuff do, I guess I also don't like the way that they pop up during gameplay.  I like the feeling of getting immersed in the game world, of forgetting that I'm playing a game and that any real world exists outside of it, and when I hear a blippy noise and see some shiny out-of-place trinket pop up it takes me out of that.

[bobstremglav]

5 hours ago, SPG said:

To answer the title's question: the game "should" have them as much as most any other game. I personally say why not?

To answer the question posed in the text (what achievements should there be), I first needed to know what they were in the PSX and XBOX versions:
https://retroachievements.org/game/11256
https://www.xboxachievements.com/game/doom-1993/achievements/
I'm not going to bother with Doom 64 or other Doom games, and I'd like to see if I could think up ones that would be fun not already included in the PSX or XBOBX. Here are my ideas:

• Get more than 100% kills in a level
• Collect 100% of the items in a level
• Gib 10 enemies in a single level
• Complete a level without taking any damage
• Get 100% kills using only your fists in a level
• Beat the Par time for a level
• Defeat the Spider Mastermind in Dis without using the BFG

"My parents are not at home": beat Doom 1 in less than hour

"Restricted legs": beat game with keyboard only and without running

"Truly beat Doom 2": kill John Romero (in real life) (you shouldn't, he's a go(o)d guy, it's just reference to "To win the game you must kill me...")

Edited April 12 by bobstremglav

[Cilian]

I don't agree that achievements are inherently bad. Their execution is often bad, and the worst ones like spend 100 shells in a single level, spend 10 hours standing still total or beat e1m8 are just pointless. But IMO they have very good potential if you approach designing them as offering a player challenges or an interesting experience instead of a chore list. The kind of achievements I like are offering you an interesting challenge that you wouldn't have thought of doing yourself (or even would, if you aren't into self-imposed challenges but are a completionist). A challenge that tests you in a way that the normal game doesn't, makes you try new options, resort to unusual strategies, make use of obscure mechanics knowledge, and overall just get a different experience of the same game.

Edited April 12 by Cilian
After posting I eventually come up with a cleaner way to word what I think

[glu]

1 hour ago, RataUnderground said:

Achievements are "gamification" of leisure time on top of the actual game. They are a mechanism that distracts from the game itself to focus the player's attention on a metagame of adiction suited for consumerism. No game is better for having achievements, and many good games are peppered with annoying interruptions placed there so that instead of enjoying the game, players understand it as a checklist to go through.

 

I think most people just play the game without caring about the achievements and after completing it they decide to get more or get them all.  Why?  Because it's fun in my opinion. And I think that people who begin a game by reading all the achievements and focusing on them as much or more as the game itself are a minority.

 

And I also don't think that achievements harm people. If you don't care about them, just ignore them. If someone wants to get achievements because they find fun in it, good for them. Achievements do not really make a game better, but they add something that can please certain players. And I don't understand how that can be bad.

Edited April 12 by glu

[whybmonotacrab]

4 hours ago, Osmosis Bones said:

Absolutely. Matter of fact they should also add a battle pass, lootcrates, cosmetics, the list goes on

How the fuck are any of these even remotely similar? Achievements are just a secondary reward system that gives certain people a sense of accomplishment and a reason to play a game more/in different ways. The other things you mentioned are exploitative business practices designed to nickel and dime a player. They're not the same thing at all.

[yakfak]

i sort of like achievements when they're secret
like... you went to this side area and watched something secret happen
or your beat this final fantasy boss before you were really high enough level to tackle it comfortably

 

i don't like achievements which are like Beat Level One, those are dumb

 

maybe give doom 1 a single achievement which is download alienstc.wad and run it

Edited April 12 by yakfak

[Devalaous]

1 hour ago, Stupid Bunny said:

In terms of in-game achievements like what Steam and XBox and stuff do, I guess I also don't like the way that they pop up during gameplay.  I like the feeling of getting immersed in the game world, of forgetting that I'm playing a game and that any real world exists outside of it, and when I hear a blippy noise and see some shiny out-of-place trinket pop up it takes me out of that.

 

There are settings to disable that on every platform ive used that has an achievement system. On Steam specifically, you can turn off that useless overlay and those notifications go poof