Regarding Etiquette Of Midi Use In My Megawad.

[Mustangtel]

Hi Everyone, this is my first post. First off, please go easy on me...I'm an old British bloke...I won't say how old exactly, but I was pushing 30 before Doom even existed!

 

I've been playing Doom for many years, but until two months ago I hadn't even heard of Ultimate Doom Builder. So I decided to look into it, and after downloading UDB, two months later I've just about completed my first mapset.....and yes I know the general advice is not to start off big, but it sort of got away from me, and turned into a full 32 map megawad. (I have a lot of free time on my hands!). The maps are all completed, but I've got a few questions that hopefully some of you may be kind enough to answer for me. By the way, its all compiled using standard Doom 2 format, so should be Vanilla....or maybe Limit Removing. Looking to release it on here within the next week or so.

 

1. I want to replace the midis for each map. I think I know how to do it with Slade, but do I add the midis to each map first, and then join them all together to make the megawad? or do I join the maps together first and then add the midis?

 

2. Would be great if I could compose my own tunes, but I don't have a musical bone in my body...so I'd like to use some midis from some of my favourite wads, such as Speed of Doom, Plutonia 2, BTSX etc etc. I especially like the work of Jimmy, Stewboy and Esselfortium. But what is the etiquette for using those midis?...is it just plain forbidden, or do I have to ask each author for permission, or do I just use them and list each midi and composer in the credits of my megawad? I genuinely don't know, and I don't want to break any rules, or offend any composers.

 

3. Different topic, but I'd like to force a pistol start for map 32. (going into it with a fully loaded BFG would make it too easy). So a death exit on map 31 would be good. Does anyone know of the simplest, most foolproof method? baring in mind its Vanilla, (or limit removing) I think it involves teleporters, barrels and voodoo dolls, but not sure.

 

Many thanks everyone!

 

Terry. (Mustangtel).

[Stabbey]

1. Never join MIDIs or anything to a map between the start of the marker and the blockmap. It's fine to have all the MIDIs together at the end, as neither MIDI nor sound effects need to be inside any pair of start/end markers.

 

Are all 32 maps in one WAD, or do you mean you have 32 individual maps? If the latter are they all in MAP 01 or are they set as the correct levels? Because you can change the map slot of a map in UDB and also save maps into another WAD to join them together that way.

 

2. As for permission, it depends on the artist. Some artists put tracks out for players to freely use as long as they're properly credited. Others you may need to ask directly, which is the best approach to use in general.

 

3. Putting a crusher in a room triggered by your "Exit" which crushes a barrel, which in turn detonates a bunch of barrels (next to both a Romero Head and a Player 1 start will do it.

[Mustangtel]

36 minutes ago, Stabbey said:

1. Never join MIDIs or anything to a map between the start of the marker and the blockmap. It's fine to have all the MIDIs together at the end, as neither MIDI nor sound effects need to be inside any pair of start/end markers.

 

Are all 32 maps in one WAD, or do you mean you have 32 individual maps? If the latter are they all in MAP 01 or are they set as the correct levels? Because you can change the map slot of a map in UDB and also save maps into another WAD to join them together that way.

 

2. As for permission, it depends on the artist. Some artists put tracks out for players to freely use as long as they're properly credited. Others you may need to ask directly, which is the best approach to use in general.

 

3. Putting a crusher in a room triggered by your "Exit" which crushes a barrel, which in turn detonates a bunch of barrels (next to both a Romero Head and a Player 1 start will do it.

Hi Stabbey, many thanks for your kind reply.

 

1. Thanks, I'll join all the maps together and make sure the midis are at the end as you suggest. At the moment I have 32 individual maps, but they are all numbered correctly from MAP 01 TO MAP 30 (plus MAP 31 and 32 of course), so I just need to do a bunch of "save intos" to join them. I could probably join them in Slade I believe, but I don't want to complicate things ha!

 

2. Yes, I think I should ask permission...perhaps I can find the midis I like and then PM the composers on here to ask permission.

 

3. Interesting....I will have a play with that idea.  Thank you!

[Garland]

42 minutes ago, Stabbey said:

3. Putting a crusher in a room triggered by your "Exit" which crushes a barrel, which in turn detonates a bunch of barrels (next to both a Romero Head and a Player 1 start will do it.

 

Slow crusher is preferable, since you want the boom and not a pool of blood. I'm using a similar barrel trick to have explosion sound(s) on a switch.

[esselfortium]

Feel free to use any midis I've created for BTSX or other wads. I believe Jimmy and Stewboy also allow reuse of theirs, but you should probably check with them to be absolutely sure.

[Yugiboy85]

The general rule of thumb regarding midi usage i would say, is: If uncertain, ask the person in question first 

That even goes if they have given prior permission to someone else. Because you can never know the full context behind it or, if it was just a special permission or what not. 

Some artists (like ad_79 for example) have released their midis as a pack for people to download and use so, these are ok (do still credit though) to use. 

But usually, from what I've seen, as long as you credit and ask, it's generally ok. Do respect the person's choice if they say no though, that goes without saying. 

[Mustangtel]

31 minutes ago, esselfortium said:

Feel free to use any midis I've created for BTSX or other wads. I believe Jimmy and Stewboy also allow reuse of theirs, but you should probably check with them to be absolutely sure.

Ohhh...thank you Sarah!  That is wonderfully kind of you...all the time I was making my map 32, all I could think of was "Womp" playing in the background. Its my favourite Doom midi of all time, and will go perfectly with the carnage in that map! And I'm sure I'll be using some of your other midis from BTSX etc in some of the other maps. Again, massive thank you!

 

24 minutes ago, Yugiboy85 said:

The general rule of thumb regarding midi usage i would say, is: If uncertain, ask the person in question first 

That even goes if they have given prior permission to someone else. Because you can never know the full context behind it or, if it was just a special permission or what not. 

Some artists (like ad_79 for example) have released their midis as a pack for people to download and use so, these are ok (do still credit though) to use. 

But usually, from what I've seen, as long as you credit and ask, it's generally ok. Do respect the person's choice if they say no though, that goes without saying. 

Thanks Yugiboy. Yes I really don't want to upset anyone or break any etiquette rules, so I will definitely ask first, and of course I'll totally understand if anyone says no....it must take a huge amount of time and effort to make these midis, so completely understandable that the composers wishes be respected.

[Gez]

On dimanche 21 avril 2024 at 1:30 PM, Mustangtel said:

1. I want to replace the midis for each map. I think I know how to do it with Slade, but do I add the midis to each map first, and then join them all together to make the megawad? or do I join the maps together first and then add the midis?

Really the order in which you do those things does not matter, the only thing that matters is that every lump is in its proper namespace. Music lumps should not be put inside map lumps; maps can completely fail to load properly if the map lump order is not scrupulously respected.

 

Those wiki articles may be useful:

https://doomwiki.org/wiki/WAD#Lump_order

https://zdoom.org/wiki/Namespace

 

Specifically for music, this page can be useful as well:

https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Doom_II_music

 

SLADE should be able to sort lumps correctly, so as long as maps are cleanly inserted without getting inside of each other like Seth Brundle (or André Delambre, if you're truly oldschool) and a random fly, you should be able to use its sort lumps function to get everything clean and nicely ordered.

[Mustangtel]

37 minutes ago, Gez said:

Really the order in which you do those things does not matter, the only thing that matters is that every lump is in its proper namespace. Music lumps should not be put inside map lumps; maps can completely fail to load properly if the map lump order is not scrupulously respected.

 

Those wiki articles may be useful:

https://doomwiki.org/wiki/WAD#Lump_order

https://zdoom.org/wiki/Namespace

 

Specifically for music, this page can be useful as well:

https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Doom_II_music

 

SLADE should be able to sort lumps correctly, so as long as maps are cleanly inserted without getting inside of each other like Seth Brundle (or André Delambre, if you're truly oldschool) and a random fly, you should be able to use its sort lumps function to get everything clean and nicely ordered.

Hey thanks Gez, I'll have a read of those links. I guess if I just put all the midis at the end they won't be getting molecularly absorbed into anything else.  Oh I'm definitely oldschool....for me the fly was dispatched with an industrial press rather than a shotgun :-)

[Pegleg]

On 4/21/2024 at 7:30 AM, Mustangtel said:

3. Different topic, but I'd like to force a pistol start for map 32. (going into it with a fully loaded BFG would make it too easy). So a death exit on map 31 would be good. Does anyone know of the simplest, most foolproof method? baring in mind its Vanilla, (or limit removing) I think it involves teleporters, barrels and voodoo dolls, but not sure.

 

As mentioned, the simplest way that I know of to have a death exit in a vanilla/limit-removing is to telefrag a barrel, in turn causing a chain reaction to blow up a Romero head. It's personal preference, but I prefer to have the Romero head behind the player instead of in front of the player when they teleport in, but that's just an aesthetic difference.

For two examples, see:

Spoiler

Scythe Map 10 or The Modest Mapping Challenge Map 11

 

Another method that works if you don't want to use the barrel telefragging death exit for whatever reason, is this:

• You trigger a crushing ceiling that lowers, blowing up a set of barrels, which kills a nearby voodoo doll and propels it over a walkover exit line. The ceiling should be right over the barrels to lower the lag between when you trigger the crushing ceiling and the death exit. You'll also want to make sure there are enough barrels and the voodoo doll is close enough so that enough damage is dealt that the voodoo doll is killed every time, regardless of difficulty, health and armor, etc.
  • For an example of this method (spoilered in case anyone doesn't want to know), see:
    Spoiler

    Back to Basics E2M7

 

[Mustangtel]

8 hours ago, Pegleg said:

 

As mentioned, the simplest way that I know of to have a death exit in a vanilla/limit-removing is to telefrag a barrel, in turn causing a chain reaction to blow up a Romero head. It's personal preference, but I prefer to have the Romero head behind the player instead of in front of the player when they teleport in, but that's just an aesthetic difference.

For two examples, see:

  Reveal hidden contents

Scythe Map 10 or The Modest Mapping Challenge Map 11

 

Another method that works if you don't want to use the barrel telefragging death exit for whatever reason, is this:

• You trigger a crushing ceiling that lowers, blowing up a set of barrels, which kills a nearby voodoo doll and propels it over a walkover exit line. The ceiling should be right over the barrels to lower the lag between when you trigger the crushing ceiling and the death exit. You'll also want to make sure there are enough barrels and the voodoo doll is close enough so that enough damage is dealt that the voodoo doll is killed every time, regardless of difficulty, health and armor, etc.
  • For an example of this method (spoilered in case anyone doesn't want to know), see:
      Reveal hidden contents

    Back to Basics E2M7

 

Many thanks for the reply and the info Pegleg. I've been experimenting with both methods you suggested, and the telefrag barrels / romero head is definitely the most reliable for normal levels (works every time without fail). I can't use it in my case though, as I need it to be a death exit from map 31 to 32....ie an "exit to secret level" and killing the Romero head takes the player to map 16. So I need to use a combination of barrels, voodoo doll and a "W1 Exit to secret level" linedef. I've just got to experiment to get the positioning of the barrels and exit linedef correct to ensure death and exit occur reliably every time :-}

[Pegleg]

On 4/24/2024 at 4:51 AM, Mustangtel said:

So I need to use a combination of barrels, voodoo doll and a "W1 Exit to secret level" linedef. I've just got to experiment to get the positioning of the barrels and exit linedef correct to ensure death and exit occur reliably every time :-}

 

I know exactly what you're talking about when it comes to getting everything just right so that it reliably works every time.

 

You can always just copy the set up from the map I referenced in the spoiler in my previous post (albeit with the exit to super secret level line instead of the regular walkover exit line). I just checked it, and it works every time, even on ITYTD with 200% health and 200% armor. If it works under that condition, it should work under any condition.

[VICE]

On 4/21/2024 at 2:30 PM, Mustangtel said:

...and yes I know the general advice is not to start off big, but it sort of got away from me, and turned into a full 32 map megawad.

I think that advice applies to newcomers. If you've been playing Doom for years, you should know what works and what doesn't.

And you can probably recognize a good map, so you should know if yours are any good. I say go for it...

 

On 4/21/2024 at 2:30 PM, Mustangtel said:

 

Terry. (Mustangtel).

...just don't make it a Terry Wad. lol.

[Mustangtel]

8 hours ago, Pegleg said:

 

I know exactly what you're talking about when it comes to getting everything just right so that it reliably works every time.

 

You can always just copy the set up from the map I referenced in the spoiler in my previous post (albeit with the exit to super secret level line instead of the regular walkover exit line). I just checked it, and it works every time, even on ITYTD with 200% health and 200% armor. If it works under that condition, it should work under any condition.

Hi Pegleg...thanks for the reply. Yes I tried everything and could get it to work 95% of the time...that elusive 5% made me give up on it in the end ha!  I was trying it with very low health, and with a freshly picked up megasphere to get both extremes. In the end I just decided that if someone wants to play map 32 as intended they will pistol start it anyway, without the need for me to force them to. And to be honest, you can bypass a death exit anyway by just doing a "changemap" cheat before exiting, so I'm content to leave it as it is.

 

6 hours ago, VICE said:

I think that advice applies to newcomers. If you've been playing Doom for years, you should know what works and what doesn't.

And you can probably recognize a good map, so you should know if yours are any good. I say go for it...

 

...just don't make it a Terry Wad. lol.

Hi Vice....I guess I have a decent idea of what works, and I'm pretty happy with how the megawad has turned out. Of course, others might think its a load of rubbish, but I think its decent for a first attempt. I have it all joined together now with all the midis inserted, so I'm very close to releasing it now...possibly in the next couple of days after some more testing (i've tested it many many times in both GZ and Crispy).

 

OMG ha!....yes my name is Terry, but this absolutely is not going to be a "Terry" wad :-)

[Mustangtel]

Many thanks to everyone who replied to this thread to help me!  The megawad is now completed, and I've just posted it in the Wad Releases section. I have no idea how it will be received...but I am prepared to be shot down in pieces if its deemed to be absolute rubbish :-)