Doom Speedrun Current/Future Accomplishments Discussion

[4shockblast]

Wanted to start this thread to both celebrate recent achievements in the game and poll some opinions on what's next. While 2024 is probably a bit less active than 2022-2023 in terms of raw demo output, I think one thing that pure numbers can't convey of modern Doom speedrunning is just how many crazy achievements have been proven possible recently. The skill of modern players is really crazy nowadays; we're at a point where Sunlust D2ALL max was not only done, but done three times, and in under three hours by Kinetic most recently, which is insane to think about. Starduster's UV-Speed is quite impressively fast as well, with a good proportion of the tricks implemented. Both of those achievements, along with many recent D2ALLs are something I would have never expected when I started in this community; to me PWAD D2ALLs are still something that either has to be short or done pretty safely. :^) Additionally, the UV-Max extravaganza on all the IWADs (there are very few remaining IWAD maxes that aren't from the past few years at this point), the Eviternity Tyson table, Final Doom UV -fast D2ALLs, e1m1 NM-Speed in 8s, just a few years after Pacifist was already seen as really hard to do, Scythe map 1 pacifist in 8s, the latest e2m6 nomo time; all of the above are just examples of how insane players are nowadays. Of course, there's always some seconds to save here and there on maxes and longer speeds, but I'm curious what people think are the really major targets now for them in the current IWAD and PWAD tables.

 

Note that these don't have to be runs that are important to everybody in the community; I am more curious about everyone's individual opinions on this, though of course they will probably coalesce to some extent with "generally" important runs. These also don't have to be obviously possible runs; in fact, they probably shouldn't be, as anything that is obviously possible you may as well just do, right? :^) And they also do not have to be Compet-N categories; any challenge run is allowed.

 

I guess I'll start with a few that I want to see:

• To get these out of the way, these are the remaining undone Compet-N categories in the IWADs:
  • e2m8, e3m8, e4m6, e4m8, pl07 nomos: yeah, two of these have no exits except monsters, two have no obvious way to reach any exit, and e4m6 remains basically the only one that has any hope. Not much to say about these other than they will only happen if something horribly broken is discovered in the game.
  • pa30: kinda similar to above, there's pretty much nothing that hasn't been explored here out of known options that would make it possible.
  • ep09: I think the biggest problem is the one hallway, but obviously the entire run is pretty hard. There is some hope here, I guess, but I'm sure many have tried and haven't found enough to motivate them to attempt it.
  • ep26: Either a practically impossible trick or a series of hallways fully blocked by demons that if you can get past is followed up by a lot of other cursed stuff. The trick is something that might be worth exploring further, but from my own looking into it, it's too precise to be worth trying.
• Otherwise, for IWADs:
  • lv24/pa24 in 31s: Given the nomo is already this time, this would be a pretty major achievement, and likely the final second barrier on the map barring being able to use the lost soul to lower the lifts in the blue room quickly enough to save time over the normal route (something very theoretical). To me, this is the precursor to all platforming maps, and the movement on the map remains pretty fun to this day, but I never tried it much because the wallrun jump is a rough one to incorporate into an already precise run right at the end of it. Still, it would be a barrier I'd like to see breached.
  • Doom 2 D2ALL Tyson: this idea has floated around a bit in Discord, and map 30 remains the major barrier. There's some thoughts for being able to use punching puffs to detect the RNG seed before entering the final arena, and of course, in that arena, you have some leeway for not alerting monsters, so you can remain safe for a while, but I think no matter how you look at it, it will never be consistent to execute Tyson on this map. Even if the rest of the maps are 100% consistent, having to play 4-5 hours for a single chance at the run would be a lot to ask for; that said, someone dedicated enough might be able to pull this off one day.
  • Plutonia map 11 true max: I think all of the other maps in the IWADs that could be true maxed already have been (not sure on this claim). Just a diceroll with the final vile room, so idk if this is even worth table filling.
  • Plutonia map 24 UV-Speed/Pacifist unification: anyone who's tried the AVJs here knows how painful it is to get the line of sight on that second one, but it's by far one of the coolest series of tricks in the IWADs IMO, so seeing an improvemeQnt here would be awesome.
  • Doom 2 map 01 NM in 4s: I guess I'll mention this one as it is Pilger's last remaining second barrier to breach, but it doesn't seem likely rn, heh.
• For PWADs:
  • Scythe map 30 Tyson: this may be impossible, but it would be huge IMO. Seeing 25, 27, 29 done is already incredible, and now this is the final boss before a full Tyson table (the only table that hasn't been filled for Scythe). Never looked at it much myself, though.
  • Scythe D2ALL NM-Speed/NM100, Scythe episodes 2-3 NM100: obviously, I'd love to see every Scythe movie table filled, but Tyson will obviously not happen for ep 3 or D2ALL, but to me, NM categories are the ones I'm most interested in, probably because I did try NM and got to ep 3 once or twice before giving it up and never went back to it. :( Hopefully, I'll either come back to it one day or someone else will take it on.
  • Perdition's Gate maps 03/27 NM100: the remaining entries in the table, both pretty cursed. These are obviously very personal picks, given my history with perdgate. Doubt anyone else would care to take these on, but it sure would be nice. :^)
  • Origwad pacifist/NM-Speed in 1s: only because I got 2.00 and gave up on this for now. I guess it is the first PWAD, so that makes it notable too, right? :D
  • Scythe 2 map 07 exit RJ done nomo or pacifist non-TAS: I have not tried it much, so not sure if this really requires TAS or not, but it would be really cool to see.
  • Perdition's Gate map 01 max sub-1:00: 1:02 places this really close, and it's an old-ish demo for me, but has some pretty good shotgun lineups. Maybe it's not as bad as it was when I tried it first, but haven't tried in a while.

 

Generally, for PWADs, any undone slots are ones where I'm most interested, particularly where the table is really close to complete. I already mentioned Scythe map 30 Tyson, and the two pg NM100 runs, but IIRC, bourgdm is just missing a single Tyson, and 32of64-v just missing two; both would be super cool to see completed.

 

So, yeah, feel free to post what in your opinion are the next big targets for challenge/speedrun targets, whether from the wider community perspective or your own, or even any runs you tried to go for a specific time on and failed would be interesting to see. :D

[Andrea Rovenski]

I like the idea of filling the essential categories for every 90s wad, or ultimately every wad released (but that's also a moving target).  More movie competition in pwads would also be really cool, even if they're not extremely optimized (and they could be!). 

[Billa]

I have quite a few demos on my wishlist that I'd love to see completed lol. 

 

IWADs:

I'd quite like to see a 2s run on any category of lv07. You can reach the exit position before 3s and turn into an instant zero press, but it would of course be a ridiculous grind. pa08 in under 20 seconds looks really close too. 

lv16o in 9 seconds is barely doable, would require good movement + a lucky instant glide, unfortunately nobody with the requisite movement skill can be bothered to grind out the glide. After looking at it more carefully it *doesn't* appear to be within reach with monsters enabled. My best failed attempt (I still grind pacifist every now and then) would have been 10.40 if I'd had an instant glide. Oh, and nm16 should be 10 too, the problem is that you rarely get attempts to the glide on that one.

pa18 is another I'd like to see go, whether it's using the door clip or just with better movement. Ocelot's 21 still looks clean as hell, but Looper has a 20s nomo so it must be doable, right...? 🙂 

Don't see why 15s on lv21 wouldn't be possible.

lv22 max under a minute is possible. Kinetic or Looper could probably do it

lv27... I'm not convinced by 10 seconds. I think Gosu has been trying to tic-beat it all this time. Either way I wish him luck.

There's no reason for the other categories in lv30 to be slower than 29s, other than lack of interest. That means UV-Fast, UV-Respawn, NM-Speed. Not very important but would be cool to see

pl12 UV-Speed uses no SR50 but 5 might still be beyond reach. I'd love to see happen it though

 

PWADs:

Hard to pick here because there's so many pwads and most of them aren't notable to most people so I'll just go with the ones I know.

Nosp28 max can go under 2 minutes, Bredd and I have gradually pushed it closer. But there's always time somewhere in that run.

Thissuxx is still missing maxes... 12 would be amazing, 15 won't be done, 16 is probably the closest to being possible, 32 would require some RNG manipulation TAS setup (I tried making one but I couldn't keep it human-viable, it's just too much RNG micro-managing to get stuns)

07 Tyson is possible but tedious, 19 would need the spider to get stuck somehow, same for 23, 25 is unfortunately impossible in an IL, 26 wouldn't be hard (I almost got an exit before), 28 looks possible with some infighting setup.

08 stroller should be 8. I have a 9.11 but forgot to keep grinding it. Would love to see some sort of diagonal zero press to save that singular frame in 13 stroller as well lol.

In Ancient Aliens, the remaining pacifists in order of difficulty are 08/09, 22, 24, 13, 27. I wouldn't be surprised to see a full tablefill on this wad.

Remaining Going Down pacifists: 14 & 23 are both pains in the arse but possible, 25 is probably impossible due to the placement of certain fruits, 29 is straight up impossible, and 31's final fight doesn't seem to be possible.

Only 5 Down the Drain pacifists remain but they're all fucked. 31 is not happening. 16, 25 & 27 are probably not happening either. Couldn't find a satisfactory route for 15 but I don't see why it wouldn't be possible.

Wormwood5 map 03 max please akolai

 

D2Alls: Cyberdreams, Down the Drain (not happening b/c of 31), Speed of Doom, Fractured Worlds, Haste, Italo Doom (08-20 would be fine lol), NoSp E3 and NoSp3, WW:EU.

[4shockblast]

51 minutes ago, Billa said:

Thissuxx 19 would need the spider to get stuck somehow

Well, at least this map just has no non-Tyson weapons, so this is just a DSDA missing feature. :) Good picks otherwise, though.

Edited April 28 by 4shockblast

[Kinetic]

23 minutes ago, Billa said:

IWADs:

I'd quite like to see a 2s run on any category of lv07. You can reach the exit position before 3s and turn into an instant zero press, but it would of course be a ridiculous grind

looks like a deeperjungle type of run (lv32)

 

29 minutes ago, Billa said:

lv22 max under a minute is possible. Kinetic or Looper could probably do it

for sure. My 1:02 was a .20. The baron didn't die in 4 rockets + chaingun so that cost me about 0.6 seconds I believe. I also opted to not even try for making the jump to the exit area since I was a bit sucky at it, but if you get the jump you can get some infighting between the chaingunners and the revenant and save some time that way probably. I think if I just had cleaner execution in the 1:02 even with not doing the final jump or getting the baron damage rolls, it could've been a 1:00, so yes sub 1 very reasonable, just annoying map to play.

 

32 minutes ago, Billa said:

In Ancient Aliens, the remaining pacifists in order of difficulty are 08/09, 22, 24, 13, 27. I wouldn't be surprised to see a full tablefill on this wad.

Remaining Going Down pacifists: 14 & 23 are both pains in the arse but possible, 25 is probably impossible due to the placement of certain fruits, 29 is straight up impossible, and 31's final fight doesn't seem to be possible.

Only 5 Down the Drain pacifists remain but they're all fucked. 31 is not happening. 16, 25 & 27 are probably not happening either. Couldn't find a satisfactory route for 15 but I don't see why it wouldn't be possible.

I'll give some of these a look this week on stream, always been a big fan of challenge pacifists.

 

34 minutes ago, Billa said:

D2Alls: Cyberdreams, Down the Drain (not happening b/c of 31), Speed of Doom, Fractured Worlds, Haste, Italo Doom (08-20 would be fine lol), NoSp E3 and NoSp3, WW:EU.

Speed of Doom I'm already doing, Fractured Worlds I have to get back to at some point, Haste I might also do in the future, Italo Doom is something I shunned for a while but the 08-20 run sometimes enters my mind as a run I want to get revenge on now that I'm a better player, but Map18 really sucks though.

 

3 hours ago, 4shockblast said:

to me PWAD D2ALLs are still something that either has to be short or done pretty safely. :^)

I'm working on this, it's just tough when there are so few runners who take on big d2alls, and even tougher when those do want to do them at a high level of optimization don't have infinite time for them. I usually get a lot more time freed up in the summer, so it's a slow process, but I'm trying to run pwad d2alls at fast speeds.

 

 

For future accomplishments I'd like to see that would really be significant:

 

- profane promised land max?

     Haven't played lol.

- Dance on the Water Map03 UV-Max

     Incredibly tough when I playtested it, tons of endurance needed, no fights are free IIRC. Need to replay to properly assess.

- Poogers Map24 UV-Max

     Obviously possible, if the map were just the tricks/movement or just the fights it would be a piece of cake, but all of it consecutively is a monumental ask. I found a setup to skip the RJ after the first fight, but was unable to perform it consistently since I suck at hitting 4 keys on the same tic, but shouldn't be an issue for anyone else. The platforming fight is only really tricky because it feels like if you do the platforms properly there's still a solid chance you get destroyed by a cyber rocket on the turnarounds, but I'm sure practicing the hell out of them something could be worked out to make it consistent. The 2-shot section, I think one cyber could probably be rocketed/cheesed, the other is an issue, either yolo or try it the intended way, nerves would be an issue here. The final vile fight has a consistent strat I found if you bring rockets in, it's just the final platforming secret that is such a damn ball buster. Maybe it's easier now that I learned keyboard SR/SL50? Not sure. I think currently someone like 4shock is most equipped to handle a run like this, although I think ZM or Looper could also since they are both so well-rounded, but theyre usually out of the question when it comes to pwads.

- Cosmogenesis Map05 UV-Max

     ancalagon was going for this but Map02's pit fight was proving tricky for him. From what I've seen/known, this seems fairly doable.

- malachite forest uv-max

     this is a hardfest 1 map by inferno, lots of platforming.

Death in Excess D2All UV-Max

     Daerik briefly mentioned this idea recently, but implied he was not going to attempt it. I always thought of this as a run built for Blue Cultist, who has several DiE  maxes, runs large, long, and short slaughtermaps at very high levels of optimization, but also has D2Alls under his belt as well. Based on my playthrough of the set, I would say the platforming in Map31 might be a choke point although theoretically it's just nerves as the platforming isn't hard I don't think. I hear the penultimate fight of Map16 as being RNG, but Daerik said he found some effective prefiring strat for it IIRC? If this is done, it would be a much more significant run to me than a faster Sunder D2All of what we currently have.

Cryogenics Map04 UV-Max (and the d2all)

     Easy map until the secret finale, it stumped me 3+ years ago, I'm much better now than I was then so I might take a look at this in the future. By extension, if this is done (the end is just heavy rng currently, not impossible by any means, just annoying grind to get an attempt to finale) the D2All max is worth considering.

Scythe D2All Max Sub 1 hr

     I added up the table times for this a few months ago, I believe it totaled to like 0:58 or 0:57? It would be an incredibly tight time to beat. I have thought about going for it, but it is one of star's first major runs he did.

Doom II D2All UV-Max

     I feel like this is something I inevitably approach attempting, but I'll assume with a high degree of confidence that as soon as I go for it and/or potentially get an exit, Looper will spring his hoarded run or another hoarded run that's faster, and I do not really need a high-profile battle with modern Looper at the moment, it is too much irrational stress for a stupid game and hobby. Also it just takes a lot of time lol. 

[Shepardus]

Hope someone has the patience for Long Road, No Turns MAP01 someday. Most of it shouldn't be hard for the more skilled players here (i.e. not me), it's just long, and the cyberdemon section can be scary for how late in the map it is.

 

I also want to see Junkfood Map 69 done Tyson - there's a berserk pack in the level, it's just asking for it.

[Orii]

Probably some lesser accomplishments here than previously mentioned, but wanted to bring them up anyway as they standout to me:

Speed of Doom Map28 Pacifist would be awesome to see, its definitely possible but requires a lot of patience, close to 30 minutes needed for it.

A full 1x1 UVMax table im excited to see, definitely possible at the current rate (Ignoring map21 being unmaxable ofcourse.)

Plutonia UVSpeed D2all sub 19 minutes is something im very interested in, very trick heavy run, really sick

TNT Map18 NoMo using the same strat as in ZeroMaster's uvspeed to rocket jump to the yellow key would be really cool to see incorporated, tried this out myself a bit but couldn't get the trick.

[xit-vono]

There are a few undone nightmare demos for mm2, as well as 1 in mm. I did a TAS for mm09 a long time ago, and I imagine that it is possible, but I just haven't bothered to try it. Most of the remaining mm2 maps can be done on nm, though I'm not sure about m229. Also, SAV88 said that AV maps 13,14,16 can be done on nightmare.

[slowfade]

Fascinating topic. I hadn't even thought that there isn't a full Doom 2 Tyson. That I definitely want to see some day. I think we'll get it at some point; it doesn't seem entirely impossible and it'd be so prestigious.

 

I want to see:

-Sunder Tysons, especially of some later maps. Why not? Anything seems possible to some of the hardcore players.

-Sunder map 11 pacifist The Furnace is one of my favorite maps ever and I'd like to see it beaten this way. I haven't inspected it with a microscope so I don't know what the worst problems are (or if they are there at all!). But with such a sprawling huge map I wouldn't declare it impossible right away. Some ideas and tricks people have had for pacifist runs are ingenious, and Insane_Gazebo doesn't seem to focus on absolutely fortifying his maps so that unintentional things might not happen...

-All E1 map strollers They are tough, but with some new routing and brainstorming might become more viable.

-D2All stroller I'm not sure any exist (other than some TASes). Is there one for any wad?

-All Doom 2 nightmare-stroller table fills (not that we have a table, just saying) Just to be sadistic.

[Decay]

Collector returns

 

Based on some testing I am of the firm belief the following iwad strollers can be completed, just require time investment I no longer have

 

e1m3s - requires a good amount of infighting, luckily the spectres are fat and can clear out quite a bit. The timings can be tight but grabbing the SS first and then heading over to the secret activating area should do it for you

e1m9 - I dunno, I think so. I got to the last room before I died but I feel like the last room is an enormous barrier. Still, I think it's doable.

e2m8 - i remember 4shock looking into this a few years ago, just an uneventful tablefill so therefore it should be done

 

map09 -  the pit sucks, and I mean the 3 switch pit. Actually the timing with all the switches here suck. Right now I say it's in the realm of "theoretically and practically possible, just super shitty"

map11 - imo can be done, via archvile jump. Collect the invis, ss, armour, and pray not to take too much damage, and I believe it can be done.. IF the 2 imps behave at the top, and unfortunately they usually don't. Usually you can get one switch but not open up the exit. Theoretically possible, maybe not practically possible.

Map13 - requires a lot of patience and luck getting the last key. Rocket boosts required so need to get there with the invuln sphere either through rocket boosts or get a spider to push you the whole way. Same category as 09.

Map14 - just needs attempts thrown at it. From what I've tried, there's a few creative ways to going about it.

 

tnt/plut

I've never played these. Maybe one day I should look at them.

 

PWAD tablefills

Hmm haven't really played much recently so nothing is really standing out. Love to see D2Alls, whether it's full megawad or short wads. Personally maybe I should look to improving some of the d2alls I did last year. But also maybe see more alternate category d2alls, respawn/fast/tyson/pacifist. Spice it up some.

 

One that I've looked at a bunch of times that just needs attempts thrown at it is SatChap01p. I've found that with the right angle you can sr50 from the stairs going up to the red key, so you can either pick that up early/first/prep it for ease of access later, but you can skip the lock-in battle with the lowering manc and arach platforms which makes this firmly within the realm of "possible but time consuming". You could also, with the right positioning, use an archvile jump to get the red key and run off the ledge before the whole platform lowers to avoid the cyber lock in, which is usually a dead end for the run. I looked into seeing if you could hit the end switch and back away from the end lowering switch (can't, too many lines interfering), or find any means of skipping to the end. From my (limited) knowledge, you could, with the right speed and angle, make a run-jump from the door way to the above mentioned lock in fight to an invisible ledge and then from that ledge head towards the exit fight.

 

Challenges

e1m1 in 17.xx. With supreme timing and getting the right damage boosts (off ledges/stairs) this is possible imo. I don't know how to use TAS functions to try, but I'm pretty confident this is possible.

SWTW01STR in 24.xx

ThisSuxxx map09str I'm confident can lose a tic

evit12p - the pacifist torture chamber

evit32p - i've spent more time wrangling with this than any other run, probably. The realest challenge of the map is the black rock area with the commandos, especially the last 2. Your health absolutely vanishes, even with the megasphere.

19 hours ago, 4shockblast said:

IIRC, bourgdm is just missing a single Tyson

Bourg30t - I'd love to see it completed. I've thrown a lot of attempts into it but 1: I'm bad at tysons and 2: it is horrific (author's fault). I don't know if it will ever get done.

 

 

Edited April 29 by Decay

[Billa]

7 minutes ago, Decay said:

e1m1 in 17.xx. With supreme timing and getting the right damage boosts (off ledges/stairs) this is possible imo. I don't know how to use TAS functions to try, but I'm pretty confident this is possible.

SWTW01STR in 24.xx

ThisSuxxx map09str I'm confident can lose a tic

I've run all of these at one point so I'll give my thoughts. E1M1 in 17 might require a new route with new manipulated damage boosts, the current one didn't feel any good to me. You have to slow down in the computer room to get boosted down the stairs, being able to take a straight line and go full-speed with the boost would be awesome. Main issue is you can't manipulate RNG that much purely with your movement, you would have to shoot, and shooting causes the staircase to fill up. There is an 18.14 TAS but the movement is poor and it doesn't quickstart. 

 

Yeah swtw01str in 24 can happen. 4shockblast and I ran it back and forth for a while, he walloped me, but our individual splits between milestones (namely the first switch and the key grab) had a lot of variance even in seemingly perfect-looking runs. I don't know where the time comes from lol. A TAS would probably go for an elastic collision off the first switch, that's the only "route change" I can think of, TAS wouldn't have an issue netting 24 with diagonal wallwalks

 

ts09str is surely beatable. Here's an ugly TAS I made last year: ts09strx1057.zip I wouldn't want to grind an extra tic off it though, 10.69 was hard enough. 

Alternatively you could find a new setup for >80 damage boosts, maybe with 2 homing missiles.

 

Some other strollers I'm interested in:

E3M6s has a handful of tics to spare. Good luck though

waronxmas04 looks almost perfect, but 4shock loses his Y momentum when he hits the wall before the glide and doesn't incorporate the little wallwalk afterwards.

sl14 record is really good, I was getting to the Vile spawn faster than Dogmachine's run but it's hard to convert it into an exit

lv01! 9 must be possible right :D

E2M9. I tried beating this a while ago, got bored of doing the movement, and tried to get a door trick+Caco fireball to boost me into the key. It would have to be near instant to save time but I never got a grab before dying lol. Only in practice with IDDQD

[Decay]

4 minutes ago, Billa said:

I've run all of these at one point so I'll give my thoughts. E1M1 in 17 might require a new route with new manipulated damage boosts, the current one didn't feel any good to me. You have to slow down in the computer room to get boosted down the stairs, being able to take a straight line and go full-speed with the boost would be awesome. Main issue is you can't manipulate RNG that much purely with your movement, you would have to shoot, and shooting causes the staircase to fill up. There is an 18.14 TAS but the movement is poor and it doesn't quickstart.

 

ts09str is surely beatable. Here's an ugly TAS I made last year: ts09strx1057.zip I wouldn't want to grind an extra tic off it though, 10.69 was hard enough. 

Alternatively you could find a new setup for >80 damage boosts, maybe with 2 homing missiles.

re e1m1: so I've found that you can more consistently get a boost down the stairs if you take the right side of the pillar instead of the left side. The trade-off is that you usually awaken extra zombies in the green zig zag room which can make it super unfavourable. I've gotten 2nd door 13.7x's a few times with this but died to the dudes immediately after, but getting to the second door overall happens less.

 

re: ts09str 10.69 is a hard time for sure, I did grind for a bit and matched it a couple times but ugh those were long grinds I don't wish to repeat lol. I was surprised not to see a tic shaved off when 4shock posted a bunch of ts runs though! It's a good one for sure.

[Monsieur E]

Here's a couple I thought would that would be neat to see done and hadn't been mentioned yet:

Zzul Bases Map31 UV-Max would be really cool to see I think, another very challenging platforming map. 
Magnolia (UV) Map01 UV-Max would be a nice tabefill to round out the max table.
lv11m is the oldest doom2 max remaining, it would be nice to see it beaten to round off the doom2 max table
Similarly, lv27 has been mentioned but I'll also bring up lv10 as being another old record from one of the best movement players of that era. 

[Horus]

9 hours ago, slowfade said:

-D2All stroller I'm not sure any exist (other than some TASes). Is there one for any wad?

 

There's this legendary run

 

 

[Andrea Rovenski]

9 hours ago, slowfade said:

D2All stroller I'm not sure any exist (other than some TASes). Is there one for any wad?

also 

 

[Billa]

As of 2023-12-31 there were 14 Stroller movies:

c_strafe is 9 maps, 44shock is 3 maps, theh is 3 maps, 0badness is 5 maps, 8-bitadd is 2 maps (lol). The rest are full-sized megawads and episodes

[Kinetic]

4 hours ago, Monsieur E said:

Here's a couple I thought would that would be neat to see done and hadn't been mentioned yet:

Zzul Bases Map31 UV-Max would be really cool to see I think, another very challenging platforming map. 
Magnolia (UV) Map01 UV-Max would be a nice tabefill to round out the max table.
lv11m is the oldest doom2 max remaining, it would be nice to see it beaten to round off the doom2 max table
Similarly, lv27 has been mentioned but I'll also bring up lv10 as being another old record from one of the best movement players of that era. 

 

Zzul Bases Map31 could probably be done, I only remember the disappearing light platforms to be the deal breaker on it for me personally, but that was 2021 me.

 

This is unrelated to the thread but at a point in the future when there is only 1 90s iwad record remaining, I think there should be mutual agreement for nobody to run it and take record.

[cryoniq]

Wonderful topic indeed.

But i see i'm kind of late to the party and almost everything notable already have been discussed and/or mentioned...

 

...however am i the only one who actually interested in Eternal Doom UV-Max D2ALL?

Also after my D2ALL UV-Max of swift death i'm thinking about D2ALL UV-Speed too but i'm not that good if we are talking about the movement and tricks and stuff like glides, AVJs, etc.

Maybe to do NM100S all the swift death maps with the actual secrets (that are not placed on the starting sector).

Resurgence D2ALL UV-Max could also go in that list and probably wasn't mentioned here.

 

Now about the stuff here:

14 hours ago, slowfade said:

I want to see:

-Sunder Tysons, especially of some later maps. Why not? Anything seems possible to some of the hardcore players.

Are you talking about the "new sunder maps" or about 2009 version? New sunder maps are rather impossible to tyson. Mostly because there is no backtracking and the berserk usually placed at the exits. Not to mention the MUCH bigger size of maps and higher monster count, harder fights, etc.

 

7 hours ago, Monsieur E said:

Magnolia (UV) Map01 UV-Max would be a nice tabefill to round out the max table.

I think Starduster still trying to do something with this map. That "secret platforming" section is indeed ridiculous.

 

7 hours ago, Monsieur E said:

lv11m is the oldest doom2 max remaining, it would be nice to see it beaten to round off the doom2 max table

Well we've seen that even lv01 max by Xit-Vono was beaten. Twice. So lv11 will happen rather soon i think :)

 

7 hours ago, Monsieur E said:

Similarly, lv27 has been mentioned but I'll also bring up lv10 as being another old record from one of the best movement players of that era. 

To add lv09 pacifist. Also ridiculous demo.

 

P.S. Dimensions map03 UV-Max sub11 minutes :prayge:

Edited April 29 by cryoniq

[ZeroMaster010]

On 4/28/2024 at 7:55 PM, 4shockblast said:

e4m6 remains basically the only one that has any hope. Not much to say about these other than they will only happen if something horribly broken is discovered in the game.

E4M6 nomo was kind of close as it might be possible to get the void glide by the switch with some absurd setup perhaps, there were also plenty of similar geometry like pl22 that could have made re-entry possible, but the angles of the walls just aren't good enough as far as I could find.

 

22 hours ago, Orii said:

Plutonia UVSpeed D2all sub 19 minutes is something im very interested in, very trick heavy run, really sick

oh right, there's pl11 which makes sub19 free, but then there's pl22 too :) could maybe go as low as the doom2 uv-speed time now, but I don't remember exactly.

 

Anyways, nerve map05 is missing pacifist and nightmare, I never looked at it beyond trying to find void glides, so maybe someone is up for those challenges which are quite interesting since it's a commercial wad.

[4shockblast]

16 hours ago, slowfade said:

-Sunder Tysons, especially of some later maps. Why not? Anything seems possible to some of the hardcore players.

-Sunder map 11 pacifist The Furnace is one of my favorite maps ever and I'd like to see it beaten this way. I haven't inspected it with a microscope so I don't know what the worst problems are (or if they are there at all!). But with such a sprawling huge map I wouldn't declare it impossible right away. Some ideas and tricks people have had for pacifist runs are ingenious, and Insane_Gazebo doesn't seem to focus on absolutely fortifying his maps so that unintentional things might not happen...

Sunder Tysons are unlikely for the later maps I expect, but the pacifist seems like something maybe viable by attempt spamming the HK alcoves. I think that's one of the biggest problem points of the map IIRC. For Tyson, I did at one point consider map 4; I was running into ammo troubles on some of the caged mancs I think, but the crushers make it very close to doable. Map 07, at least on paper, almost seems plausible as well.

 

Speaking of Tyson, Sunlust is another one where most of the runs are probably close to impossible, but even TASes would be interesting for some. Map 18 has always seemed like a decent target with how open the map is, but I never spent a ton of time routing it.

10 hours ago, Decay said:

Bourg30t - I'd love to see it completed. I've thrown a lot of attempts into it but 1: I'm bad at tysons and 2: it is horrific (author's fault). I don't know if it will ever get done.

I didn't spend a lot of time on this one, but I did look at it briefly. You can get rid of quite a lot of monsters without ever triggering the icon, just by long-distance pistoling or infights, but it is slow-ish. The HK alcove might be the trickiest to get rid of and probably will require going into the open, which is dangerous. Seemed quite doable relative to some of the stuff done so far, though.

 

WRT the stroller discussion, I haven't had a chance to look at e1m1, might be fun to try sometime. ts09 I did look at a bit, but I didn't want to sink too much into any of the ts runs while I was grinding pa01. :p I had at least one wallwalk comparable to Billa's, but it would have only resulted in 10.69 at best. One thing I found interesting is the timing of the damage boost probably matters a lot; Billa's manip is perfect to get it right when you start walking through the door, I suspect that is more useful than 2 hits that amount to 90 damage unless one is like that, because it immediately moves you up to past walking speed, whereas those would just be temporary boosts above walking speed for a bit. If I feel like going back for the ts runs I didn't really do, I might try that one more (but no way I'm ever touching ts14str again, heh...).

8 hours ago, Monsieur E said:

lv11m is the oldest doom2 max remaining, it would be nice to see it beaten to round off the doom2 max table
Similarly, lv27 has been mentioned but I'll also bring up lv10 as being another old record from one of the best movement players of that era. 

It would be so sad if the improvement misses the epic infight, but I suspect you could shave off time elsewhere even without it. lv10 is definitely more beatable than the previously mentioned lv18, as lv10 doesn't even have sr50. Looks pretty fun too, tbh, though the bit of hitscan might be annoying, as well as the grab.

5 hours ago, Billa said:

As of 2023-12-31 there were 14 Stroller movies:

We've gotten at least https://dsdarchive.com/wads/9ring666 since then. https://dsdarchive.com/wads/dmboot should be a trivial one, almost too dumb. :^) Not sure if there are any full megawads that aren't more memey that have a truly realistic chance of this happening. Even the Scythe episodes have missing spots in between that would be quite painful, with or without carryover I think.

 

Nice to see all the different picks from everyone. Didn't mention in the OP, but I guess we might also be on the cusp of a full Oku UV-Max run from Coin, which would be super cool. Couple other runs that I suppose I'll mention:

• p4m9 in 7s: probably the most realistic remaining sub-10s improvement on the IWADs (possibly more so than pa07, at least, maybe not when compared to lv18, not sure). Either really precise movement or (more likely?) a teleport unstuck shot would make it happen I suspect.
• p4m2s or e4m2s using the zero press: with the baron there this would be a major crapshoot. But I think a collective wallbang against this one might make it happen, eventually. :^)
• p2m2 in 13s: with how awfully precise this is on Nomo, not clear how you'd bridge the gap in pacifist, especially with the nomo route being largely blocked by imps. This is squarely in the category of runs that seem totally impossible now, but who knows, maybe there is a chance, somehow. :p

[Bob9001]

I too would like to see a Doom 2 D2all Tyson.

Maybe someone can finish Plutonia episodic tysons (Improved Episode 1, finished episode 2 and 3). Maybe even full plutonia tyson movie one day :)

I don't think j4rio has much interest since i last asked them awhile ago.

 

[Kinetic]

I think Deus Vult in sub 1 hour max is also a significant pwad time barrier to break, although anc has 1:00 on it currently, so I assume it could be smashed sort of atp

[Andromeda]

15 hours ago, cryoniq said:

...however am i the only one who actually interested in Eternal Doom UV-Max D2ALL? 

I want to do this in the future, though it might be a while before I get to it.

 

15 hours ago, ZeroMaster010 said:

Anyways, nerve map05 is missing pacifist and nightmare, I never looked at it beyond trying to find void glides, so maybe someone is up for those challenges which are quite interesting since it's a commercial wad. 

I probably looked at it even less than you did, but I think pacifist might be a similar situation to pa02 but even longer. NM/NM100 may be marginally easier. I might give it a more thorough look at some point.

Edited April 30 by Andromeda

[slowfade]

I've investigated Sunder map 11 (for pacifist approach) a bit and it looks like it's beyond my skills. But it just might be doable to someone else. The imp staircase seems really difficult, there's so many of them, but I didn't really try getting any infighting going (between imps and mancubuses for example), which might solve it altogether. Another really difficult part is the group of archviles near the end. I don't know how they might be by-passed. Probably not without creating a complete infighting mayhem before them, but the conditions are fruitful for that with all that horde and several cyberdemons. The corridors with knights and/or barons seem difficult, but maybe not impossible for those who can move fast and keep dodging. I'll probably try a thing or two for the sake of my curiosity.

[Kinetic]

Sunder D2All Max (or speed) when the wad finishes will probably become one of the highest stakes demos ever, the run will probably be at minimum like 40 hours long or something if we extrapolate the current new sunder maps to the final 10 in production. The sad thing is I will probably be like 30 when the wad is finished :(

[Andromeda]

11 hours ago, Kinetic said:

The sad thing is I will probably be like 30 when the wad is finished :(

Don't you have to be 13 to register on Doomworld?