elf-alchemist Posted May 10 (edited) 5 hours ago, TMMMS said: out of curiosity would you consider john romeros e1m4b and e1m8b to be worthy additions to the package? after all hes a master too if not the master of doom and just like all the rejected submissions his levels were released independently now sure i know they werent made for the master levels but then neither was kick attack 2 hours ago, No-Man Baugh said: Honestly I wouldn't mind seeing Mustaine's TNT levels axed either, it's just bizarre to see those levels outside of TNT map01. Chiron on the other hand gets a pass since it's apart of John Anderson's Inferno and his maps are actually supposed to go together but even then all those levels have one thing in common that Kick Attack and Romero's alt-wads do not: they were actually summited to be included into the Master Levels for Doom II 2 hours ago, No-Man Baugh said: Yeah they were, that's what I was saying: they're still more valid picks for a Master Level comp than Kick Attack is I was just complaining since they're already in a commercial wad, and seeing them outside of where I'm familiar with them bothers me irrationally 1 hour ago, TMMMS said: well you make a fair point nonetheless i guess what we need now is master levels for doom 2 the sequel for all the standalone maps from said masters that were not meant for the original master levels like kick attack but also interdiction zone and the raven series Very interesting discussion happening here! I do think it is a little bit a of shame that I had added Boot Assault, in hindsight. Having 5 episodes of 45 sounds better for branding, it rolls off a little better, than 5 episodes of 46 maps. But gameplay and progression-wise, I do think the Lost Levels are better for it. firstly, I do like it when all of an authors maps are together in series, so having all 4 Mustaine maps together was a must for me, when deciding the map order, secondly, Canyon is generally considered inferior to it's sibling Attack and I didn't want to leave a decent to good episode hanging on it's arguably weakest map, so as I had come across Devalaous' work, I though to include Boot Assault in, as a bonus to round off the end a little better than Canyon, while keeping the "Theresa Chasar and Tim Willits" authorship for the second half of the episode. While Kick Attack did come out later than the Master Levels, and wasn't solely the work of Willits, I believed that in a vacuum, if a player with lesser knowledge of history and where things came from in general, they could at least appreciate the ending better with it than without it. That is to say, much like stripping KA of it's assets created BA, it is true that stripping it of it's context also allows it to stand together with it's newly adopted siblings, as a proper trio working as one to favor the episode, and indirectly, make each map feel more cohesive, like they are a part of something a-bigger than the sum of it's individual parts. No matter where or from when these parts come from. KA was just lucky to have a Master Levels contributor as it's project leader and a close time of release. Other maps become a little more complicated, and less sound to include, while John's work is undeniably magnificent in it's own, it has less involvement in being a part of the Master Levels creators. It also doesn't fit very well with the thought above, of each map contributing to the whole episode thematically and consistency-wise (although once I have actual time for Dooming instead of just developing, I'll definitely checkout Raven and TIZ for potential inclusion). Not that I'm opposed to the idea of a "Modern" Master Levels, taking clues from the Masterpack of course, where the greatest Doom mappers of this generation get in a team, and each make a whole single episode, following a single cohesive theme each, a single dedicated sky texture for it's totality, picking out the individual MIDIs themselves, etc. Less a single megawad of multiple episode and more so a bunch of various distinct episode-WADs glued in one megawad, if that makes any sense. And if it doesn't make any sense, that's fine, just putting my thoughts out on the information superhighway. 5 hours ago, Insaneprophet said: I am excited to see the finished product after everything gets straightened out and finalized. Like it will be THE difinitive way to enjoy these maps. 😀 And I'm excited about people giving the Masters a shot, it is very satisfying to build this and see fellow Doomers enjoy it. Thank you. Edited May 10 by elf-alchemist i hate english 5 Quote Share this post Link to post
Devalaous Posted May 10 (edited) 3 hours ago, No-Man Baugh said: Yeah they were, that's what I was saying: they're still more valid picks for a Master Level comp than Kick Attack is I was just complaining since they're already in a commercial wad, and seeing them outside of where I'm familiar with them bothers me irrationally That was partially why I included the much shittier and rougher DWANGO versions of System Control and Processing Area. We don't know what versions he sent to id and when, so these earlier versions felt more fitting to include in the reject episode. Its also a lot more legal-friendly than distributing straight IWAD rips of a few maps. 2 hours ago, elf-alchemist said: But gameplay and progression-wise, I do think the Lost Levels are better for it. firstly, I do like it when all of an authors maps are together in series, so having all 4 Mustaine maps together was a must for me, when deciding the map order, secondly, Canyon is generally considered inferior to it's sibling Attack and I didn't want to leave a decent to good episode hanging on it's arguably weakest map, so as I had come across Devalaous' work, I though to include Boot Assault in, as a bonus to round off the end a little better than Canyon, while keeping the "Theresa Chasar and Tim Willits" authorship for the second half of the episode. While Kick Attack did come out later than the Master Levels, and wasn't solely the work of Willits, I believed that in a vacuum, if a player with lesser knowledge of history and where things came from in general, they could at least appreciate the ending better with it than without it. That is to say, much like stripping KA of it's assets created BA, it is true that stripping it of it's context also allows it to stand together with it's newly adopted siblings, as a proper trio working as one to favor the episode, and indirectly, make each map feel more cohesive, like they are a part of something a-bigger than the sum of it's individual parts. No matter where or from when these parts come from. KA was just lucky to have a Master Levels contributor as it's project leader and a close time of release. Yeah, I pretty much added Kick Attack and Interdiction Zone because they fit so well with the other works of the authors, and it bumped each Master Level Designer to three maps minimum each. For other potential stuff, I really wish out of the variuos unsolved mysteries, we could get a definitive answer on who the mystery designer that left the project was, who was replaced by Sverre at the last minute. Most evidence points to it being Scott Harper, since his Deadlock level has been spotted more than once in id stuff, but its just speculation. I will say that Scott's levels are *very* Master Levels-like though and would have totally fit in the package, had he been included back in the day. A full 32-map megawad with Willits/Chasar, Mustaine, Klie, Anderson, Kvernmo, Flynn and Harper would have been fantastic. Edited May 10 by Devalaous 4 Quote Share this post Link to post
JPL Posted May 10 (edited) 11 hours ago, elf-alchemist said: Unless @JPL confirms he did other changes, that's all for now. Let me check my source control history for the project (for the map files themselves not pure MAPINFO changes like level order, skies etc): (All the texture assignments I did to fix conflicts.) Fixed an unattainable secret in Klie's "CPU" map. Tagged blue key for medium difficulty in Mustaine's map14 homage - this was almost certainly an oversight Fixed unattainable secret in dante25 aka if_map01 Removed unneeded GLNODES in trouble aka tt_map06 Rebuilt cb_map05 and cb_map09 reject lumps with ZenNode, hopefully not a foolish move? cb_map05: NE triangle shaped room: untag tiny sector inside teleporter as secret, tag surrounding sector as secret cb_map09: grid stairs in center right of brain maze: untag teleporter sector itself as secret, tag destination sector with mega as secret nudge over thing 575 (armor bonus) and its siblings in brain maze so that it's not halfway out of the world same for thing directly north of it in same hallway dark lava rock pit southest of right eye: untag teleport sector here Fixed Trouble on Titan (tt_map06) floor height, made after an earlier sector edit, making secret inaccessible (I think this was just a fix to a previous unintentional change I made.) That's all I could find. These were all done to fix bugs and/or allow 100% kills + items + secrets. I do wish there were a good "map diff" tool that would just tell you everything about a WAD that's changed. Edited May 10 by JPL clarification on Trouble on Titan change note 2 Quote Share this post Link to post
elf-alchemist Posted May 10 1 minute ago, JPL said: Let me check my source control history for the project (for the map files themselves not pure MAPINFO changes like level order, skies etc): (All the texture assignments I did to fix conflicts.) Fixed an unattainable secret in Klie's "CPU" map. Tagged blue key for medium difficulty in Mustaine's map14 homage - this was almost certainly an oversight Fixed unattainable secret in dante25 aka if_map01 Removed unneeded GLNODES in trouble aka tt_map06 Rebuilt cb_map05 and cb_map09 reject lumps with ZenNode, hopefully not a foolish move? cb_map05: NE triangle shaped room: untag tiny sector inside teleporter as secret, tag surrounding sector as secret cb_map09: grid stairs in center right of brain maze: untag teleporter sector itself as secret, tag destination sector with mega as secret nudge over thing 575 (armor bonus) and its siblings in brain maze so that it's not halfway out of the world same for thing directly north of it in same hallway dark lava rock pit southest of right eye: untag teleport sector here Fixed Trouble on Titan (tt_map06) floor height, made after an earlier sector edit, making secret inaccessible That's all I could find. These were all done to fix bugs and/or allow 100% kills + items + secrets. I do wish there were a good "map diff" tool that would just tell you everything about a WAD that's changed. You sir, are a god-sent gift. Thank you so so much. This will be a massive help for the coming updates. A Doom map diff tool is definitely an interesting idea. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post
elf-alchemist Posted May 10 Now, for a quick update: Currently working on a separate `base.py` script next to `masterpack.py`. Basic idea here is to be able to grab the non-commercial /idgames versions of the wads and bulk merge them for building the `base.wad` used to build the actual `masterpack.wad`. This is just a precursor to a _possible_ later feature version of the script, where every step of the build process is already automated, even on the users own machine. Most of this already being done via `omgifol`, as you can see below modifying the Titan textures as an example. Spoiler 0 Quote Share this post Link to post
No-Man Baugh Posted May 10 (edited) If I can make a request: an option to replace the MTWID songs with the appropriate tracks from the Master Levels 25th Anniversary MIDI Pack? I agree with the current midi replacements for the rejected levels, but even if the 25th Anniversary Pack does take the piss a bit out of the Master Levels; I still have too much of an association with their prescribed levels that I can't let go and some of those track are just way too good to let go anyways maybe make a little command prompt for it? or an add-on pwad that has all the tracks go to their respective map? Edited May 10 by No-Man Baugh 3 Quote Share this post Link to post
ethel5691 Posted May 10 4 hours ago, No-Man Baugh said: If I can make a request: an option to replace the MTWID songs with the appropriate tracks from the Master Levels 25th Anniversary MIDI Pack? I agree with the current midi replacements for the rejected levels, but even if the 25th Anniversary Pack does take the piss a bit out of the Master Levels; I still have too much of an association with their prescribed levels that I can't let go and some of those track are just way too good to let go anyways maybe make a little command prompt for it? or an add-on pwad that has all the tracks go to their respective map? I had Suggested that to @elf-alchemist but he said he wasn't really a fan of peter's work and also there are only 25 tracks for 45 maps. There's some good ones in the pack however that could be mixed with the Ultimate doom and Doom 2 community midi pack that are already in use. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post
No-Man Baugh Posted May 10 19 minutes ago, ethel5691 said: I had Suggested that to @elf-alchemist but he said he wasn't really a fan of peter's work and also there are only 25 tracks for 45 maps. There's some good ones in the pack however that could be mixed with the Ultimate doom and Doom 2 community midi pack that are already in use. I get that. I already ranted and raved about having Kick Attack and Tom's TNT levels in here, so I get having personal preferences, I'm just saying that I'd like to have the option as someone who really likes Peter's midis (even if his master level pack is more poking fun at it than it is celebrating) 1 Quote Share this post Link to post
costadevale Posted May 10 4 hours ago, No-Man Baugh said: If I can make a request: an option to replace the MTWID songs with the appropriate tracks from the Master Levels 25th Anniversary MIDI Pack? I agree with the current midi replacements for the rejected levels, but even if the 25th Anniversary Pack does take the piss a bit out of the Master Levels; I still have too much of an association with their prescribed levels that I can't let go and some of those track are just way too good to let go anyways maybe make a little command prompt for it? or an add-on pwad that has all the tracks go to their respective map? Seconding this. Maybe some shorter tracks can be skipped (like Icon of put this map in the bin, which is like 10 seconds long) so there's no inconsistencies. 3 Quote Share this post Link to post
ethel5691 Posted May 10 1 hour ago, costadevale said: Seconding this. Maybe some shorter tracks can be skipped (like Icon of put this map in the bin, which is like 10 seconds long) so there's no inconsistencies. Im also in favor of this, there's some good tracks in there that can replace some of the existing ones. I myself have been using that midi pack with the masterpack and there's some tracks im quite fond of myself. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post
ethel5691 Posted May 10 (edited) 40 minutes ago, ethel5691 said: Im also in favor of this, there's some good tracks in there that can replace some of the existing ones. I myself have been using that midi pack with the masterpack and there's some tracks im quite fond of myself. Here the ones from Peter's midi pack that i think are worthy of being added. It would also help with not having a track being used for multiple levels. I think it's best to have individuals track for each level, especially considering the plethora of community midi packs available! 03 - Dont Fall Lmao 06 - Shepards tone 08 - Waltz into Mancubus Fireballs 09 - Ejipt 12 - Locrian Trap MIDI 14 - Archvile King 18 - Invisible Ledge is DUMB Yeah now i understand maybe why @elf-alchemist wouldn't wanna use it, most of the tracks in the midi pack are a bit odd to say the least. Edited May 10 by ethel5691 1 Quote Share this post Link to post
ethel5691 Posted May 10 Also, since we are at it, since all the ports that can run this support widescreen. Why not use widescreen assets at it for the TITLEPIC, INTERPIC and BOSSBACK? 1 Quote Share this post Link to post
Amaruψ Posted May 10 Look at this, the goober's being popular :P 1 Quote Share this post Link to post
ethel5691 Posted May 10 (edited) So i was just doin some testing, exiting Cabal 12: Bad dream, crashes the game in woof with no error message or such EDIT: i tested GZDoom and it was fine, it showed a message in the console saying "REJECT is 1 byte small" idk what that is or if it's relevant but i will leave it here, im going to test other source ports too EDIT 2: I tested Nugget doom and it gave me the error message: "W_GetNumForName: ML_MAP99 not found" Edited May 10 by ethel5691 added some vital information, may add more after testing 1 Quote Share this post Link to post
elf-alchemist Posted May 10 11 hours ago, No-Man Baugh said: If I can make a request: an option to replace the MTWID songs with the appropriate tracks from the Master Levels 25th Anniversary MIDI Pack? I agree with the current midi replacements for the rejected levels, but even if the 25th Anniversary Pack does take the piss a bit out of the Master Levels; I still have too much of an association with their prescribed levels that I can't let go and some of those track are just way too good to let go anyways maybe make a little command prompt for it? or an add-on pwad that has all the tracks go to their respective map? 7 hours ago, ethel5691 said: I had Suggested that to @elf-alchemist but he said he wasn't really a fan of peter's work and also there are only 25 tracks for 45 maps. There's some good ones in the pack however that could be mixed with the Ultimate doom and Doom 2 community midi pack that are already in use. 6 hours ago, No-Man Baugh said: I get that. I already ranted and raved about having Kick Attack and Tom's TNT levels in here, so I get having personal preferences, I'm just saying that I'd like to have the option as someone who really likes Peter's midis (even if his master level pack is more poking fun at it than it is celebrating) 6 hours ago, costadevale said: Seconding this. Maybe some shorter tracks can be skipped (like Icon of put this map in the bin, which is like 10 seconds long) so there's no inconsistencies. 5 hours ago, ethel5691 said: Im also in favor of this, there's some good tracks in there that can replace some of the existing ones. I myself have been using that midi pack with the masterpack and there's some tracks im quite fond of myself. 4 hours ago, ethel5691 said: Here the ones from Peter's midi pack that i think are worthy of being added. It would also help with not having a track being used for multiple levels. I think it's best to have individuals track for each level, especially considering the plethora of community midi packs available! 03 - Dont Fall Lmao 06 - Shepards tone 08 - Waltz into Mancubus Fireballs 09 - Ejipt 12 - Locrian Trap MIDI 14 - Archvile King 18 - Invisible Ledge is DUMB Yeah now i understand maybe why @elf-alchemist wouldn't wanna use it, most of the tracks in the midi pack are a bit odd to say the least. Yup, my thoughts exactly. @Peter's work pokes too much fun at the master levels for me to seriously consider it, as a main soundtrack at least. But the idea of a separate PWAD that changes the MIDIs choices per map does now sound more plausible after the script now being out. But I do have a more interesting thought in mind, since next year will be the 30th anniversery of the Master Levels, a possible ML30AMP for Masterpack doesn't sound like a half bad idea to me :P, maybe have a different artist for each episode even... but nah, that's nothing more than a twinkle in my eye right now. But the separate PWAD idea is very doable for the 0.3 release. I like what @Devalaous did with their ML QoL patch, too, so I might reuse a few MIDIs, but if anyone with a a better ear for music has some recommendation of which ML25AMP noise to use on which map, you take a look at this table for some inspiration. Spoiler 4 hours ago, ethel5691 said: Also, since we are at it, since all the ports that can run this support widescreen. Why not use widescreen assets at it for the TITLEPIC, INTERPIC and BOSSBACK? Widescreen is possible, however I forget now, are these assets free-to-use? If I'm not mistaken they were all community-made, then adopted by the Unity port, so, in theory, I could use these without the worry of it being considered usage of commercial assets ? 2 hours ago, ethel5691 said: So i was just doin some testing, exiting Cabal 12: Bad dream, crashes the game in woof with no error message or such EDIT: i tested GZDoom and it was fine, it showed a message in the console saying "REJECT is 1 byte small" idk what that is or if it's relevant but i will leave it here, im going to test other source ports too EDIT 2: I tested Nugget doom and it gave me the error message: "W_GetNumForName: ML_MAP99 not found" Issues with xMAPINFO-related definitions are already being updated and becoming available in the latest commits. The REJECT issue is being worked on, as per my previous post about the base.py script. This problem is arising out of the maps taken from masters.pk3 for GZDoom and not being taken from the original WAD files on /idgames, I've already finished the Titan series which I was dreading before, but for what I want to have done by the 0.3 release, the rest of the 4 episode are pretty easy to get done in comparison. more might be done later for 0.4 but we'll see. 3 hours ago, Amaruψ said: Look at this, the goober's being popular :P Look at you, being an amazing artist and incredible mapper, making insanely good sprites for your deathmatch WAD and awesome levels for Torment of Screams :P 2 Quote Share this post Link to post
ethel5691 Posted May 10 1 hour ago, elf-alchemist said: Yup, my thoughts exactly. @Peter's work pokes too much fun at the master levels for me to seriously consider it, as a main soundtrack at least. But the idea of a separate PWAD that changes the MIDIs choices per map does now sound more plausible after the script now being out. But I do have a more interesting thought in mind, since next year will be the 30th anniversery of the Master Levels, a possible ML30AMP for Masterpack doesn't sound like a half bad idea to me :P, maybe have a different artist for each episode even... but nah, that's nothing more than a twinkle in my eye right now. But the separate PWAD idea is very doable for the 0.3 release. I like what @Devalaous did with their ML QoL patch, too, so I might reuse a few MIDIs, but if anyone with a a better ear for music has some recommendation of which ML25AMP noise to use on which map, you take a look at this table for some inspiration. Hmmm, Understandable enough. Would you at least consider to use other tracks from the Ultimate Doom and Doom 2 community midi pack on the Masterpack so it doesnt have to re-use a track in multiple levels? 2 Quote Share this post Link to post
elf-alchemist Posted May 11 Version 0.3, RELEASE! The "Doom Mapping Format" Update Fixes issues with missing or borked REJECT and BLOCKMAP lumps in basically all non-commercial maps. This is achieved by manually extracting the original versions of said levels. And for now, doing away with the masters.pk3 content. Also included preparations for a great degree of build tooling automation in the project, by way of being able to extract the lumps from the /idgames available WADs, therefore paving the way for a future version which will be fully auto built from zero. Get it here: https://elf-alchemist.itch.io/masterpack Or here: https://github.com/elf-alchemist/masterpack/releases/tag/0.3 5 Quote Share this post Link to post
elf-alchemist Posted May 11 Version 0.3.1, RELEASE! The "Are we really doing this? Guess we are then" Update I couldn't resist adding this in, as per discussions had here regarding the Master Levels 25th Anniversary MIDI Pack (ML25AMP), I have added an optional QoL patch in the "patches/" folder, as masterpack_ml25amp.wad. Get it here: https://elf-alchemist.itch.io/masterpack Or here: https://github.com/elf-alchemist/masterpack/releases/tag/0.3.1 7 hours ago, ethel5691 said: Hmmm, Understandable enough. Would you at least consider to use other tracks from the Ultimate Doom and Doom 2 community midi pack on the Masterpack so it doesnt have to re-use a track in multiple levels? My primary concern with MIDI choices in this project really comes down to decision fatigue. Analysis paralysis, if you will. We could sit here and have a long back-and-forth conversation about which MIDIs go with which maps, such as how you showed in previous posts about "choosing" the nicer MIDIs from ML25AMP. But that's not really productive at all. I have been contemplating this for a hot second now, and I have made a decision to keep things simple by "putting a line in the sand", as it were: The project will continue with it's current MIDI choices frozen as all music is unique episode-wise. And, from this new update, will provide the ML25AMP QoL patch for those who do like those sounds, however they will be used only in the maps they were built originally for, that is, no duplicates. And if, at some point in the long future, this project receives a proper MIDI pack as I talked about before, it will become the third, and last, roster for the Masterpack. Anyway here is the README from masterpack_ml25amp.wad: Spoiler ================================================================================ Masterpack for Doom II - ML25AMP Edition by Elf Alchemist 10 - May - 2024 Master Levels for Doom II - 25th Anniversary MIDI Pack by MegaSphere 18 - January - 2021 ================================================================================ ----Main------------------------------------------------------------------------ Arse D_DM2TTL Title Screen Palate Cleanser D_DM2INT Intermission Arse D_READ_M Text Screen DOODOODOODOO D_EVIL Cast Call ----Inferno--------------------------------------------------------------------- Locrian Trap MIDI D_TRAP VIRGIL.WAD Virgil's Lead Not Club Doom D_NOT MINOS.WAD Minos' Judgement Slaying at Night D_SLAYIN NESSUS.WAD Nessus Catnip Forest (by Bloo) D_CATNIP GERYON.WAD Geryon Invisible Ledge is DUMB D_LEDGE VESPERAS.WAD Vesperas ----Titan----------------------------------------------------------------------- Death by Enriched Bagel (by Willy W) D_BAGEL MANOR.WAD Titan Manor Wank City D_WANK TTRAP.WAD Trapped On Titan ----Cabal----------------------------------------------------------------------- Archvile King D_KING BLOODSEA.WAD Bloodsea Keep Erecting The Black Tower D_ERECT BLACKTWR.WAD Black Tower Icon Of put this map in the Bin D_BIN MEPHISTO.WAD Mephisto's Maosoleum Grinding Teeth D_TEETH TEETH.WAD The Express Elevator To Hell The Tit D_TIT TEETH.WAD Bad Dream ----Klietech-------------------------------------------------------------------- Ejipt D_EJIPT SUBSPACE.WAD Subspace Treasure Hunting D_HUNTIN COMBINE.WAD The Combine Fist Urethra D_FIST FISTULA.WAD The Fistula Inescapable Pit Time D_PIT SUBTERRA.WAD Subterra Don't Fall Lmao D_LMAO CATWALK.WAD The Catwalk Shepards Tone D_TONE GARRISON.WAD The Garrison ----Lost-Levels----------------------------------------------------------------- Waltz into Mancubus Fireballs D_WALTZ PARADOX.WAD Paradox Are We Really Doing This D_ARE_WE ATTACK.WAD Attack Guess We Are Then D_WE_ARE CANYON.WAD Canyon -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5 Quote Share this post Link to post
elf-alchemist Posted May 11 (edited) Version 0.3.2, the "Finally Widescreen Support" Update Thank you @Nash, very cool! And you too, @NightFright. You guys are awesome. And to @P41R47 for posting the original TITLEPIC I used for the Masterpack. Sad, to just find out they haven't been online since 2021 :( Get it here: https://elf-alchemist.itch.io/masterpack Or here: https://github.com/elf-alchemist/masterpack/releases/tag/0.3.2 Screenshots: Spoiler Edited May 11 by elf-alchemist forgot screenies :p 1 Quote Share this post Link to post
TMMMS Posted May 11 sorry i am a bit confused here what is the difference between the default soundtrack and the masterpack_ml25amp.wad patch? i am not sure i get it 1 Quote Share this post Link to post
elf-alchemist Posted May 12 32 minutes ago, TMMMS said: sorry i am a bit confused here what is the difference between the default soundtrack and the masterpack_ml25amp.wad patch? i am not sure i get it Sorry for the confusion. It's the "Master Levels 25th Anniversary MIDI Pack" soundtrack. I'm however, using only the tracks on their designated 21 maps, without repetition. That is to say, for example, the track "Waltz Into Mancubus Fireballs" will only play on MAP43, Lost Level 4: Paradox, the track"Are We Really Doing This?" will only play on MAP44, Lost Level 5: Attack, and so on, without affecting the other map's tracks. So Dante's Gate for exmaple, which wasn't included in the ML25AMP, does not have it's track altered. So only the original 21 maps of the Master Levels will have a different track. Those maps being listed in the README. 20 hours ago, elf-alchemist said: Anyway here is the README from masterpack_ml25amp.wad: Reveal hidden contents ================================================================================ Masterpack for Doom II - ML25AMP Edition by Elf Alchemist 10 - May - 2024 Master Levels for Doom II - 25th Anniversary MIDI Pack by MegaSphere 18 - January - 2021 ================================================================================ ----Main------------------------------------------------------------------------ Arse D_DM2TTL Title Screen Palate Cleanser D_DM2INT Intermission Arse D_READ_M Text Screen DOODOODOODOO D_EVIL Cast Call ----Inferno--------------------------------------------------------------------- Locrian Trap MIDI D_TRAP VIRGIL.WAD Virgil's Lead Not Club Doom D_NOT MINOS.WAD Minos' Judgement Slaying at Night D_SLAYIN NESSUS.WAD Nessus Catnip Forest (by Bloo) D_CATNIP GERYON.WAD Geryon Invisible Ledge is DUMB D_LEDGE VESPERAS.WAD Vesperas ----Titan----------------------------------------------------------------------- Death by Enriched Bagel (by Willy W) D_BAGEL MANOR.WAD Titan Manor Wank City D_WANK TTRAP.WAD Trapped On Titan ----Cabal----------------------------------------------------------------------- Archvile King D_KING BLOODSEA.WAD Bloodsea Keep Erecting The Black Tower D_ERECT BLACKTWR.WAD Black Tower Icon Of put this map in the Bin D_BIN MEPHISTO.WAD Mephisto's Maosoleum Grinding Teeth D_TEETH TEETH.WAD The Express Elevator To Hell The Tit D_TIT TEETH.WAD Bad Dream ----Klietech-------------------------------------------------------------------- Ejipt D_EJIPT SUBSPACE.WAD Subspace Treasure Hunting D_HUNTIN COMBINE.WAD The Combine Fist Urethra D_FIST FISTULA.WAD The Fistula Inescapable Pit Time D_PIT SUBTERRA.WAD Subterra Don't Fall Lmao D_LMAO CATWALK.WAD The Catwalk Shepards Tone D_TONE GARRISON.WAD The Garrison ----Lost-Levels----------------------------------------------------------------- Waltz into Mancubus Fireballs D_WALTZ PARADOX.WAD Paradox Are We Really Doing This D_ARE_WE ATTACK.WAD Attack Guess We Are Then D_WE_ARE CANYON.WAD Canyon -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- But since it's being confusing, I will make another complete MIDI list for this patch. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post
TMMMS Posted May 12 okay so if i dont play with masterpack_ml25amp.wad i will get repeated tracks? or is it the opposite? 1 Quote Share this post Link to post
No-Man Baugh Posted May 12 (edited) 51 minutes ago, TMMMS said: sorry i am a bit confused here what is the difference between the default soundtrack and the masterpack_ml25amp.wad patch? i am not sure i get it Basically the default soundtrack uses a mix of .MID the Way id Did and the Ultimate MIDI Pack, both of which were made with the intention of being total soundtrack replacements for Doom and Doom 2 megawads that had no custom midis or arrangements (such as all the maps made for the Master Levels) masterpack_ml25amp.wad just replaces the tracks used for the Officially Released Master Levels with midis from the Master Levels for Doom II 25th Anniversary MIDI Pack by Peter Lawrence, which Elf-Alchemist excluded by default since they didn't like the mocking nature of the midi pack but included it as an optional patch due to popular demand (i.e. my demand) either which way you go: there should be 0 repeat tracks, and the levels that weren't originally included in the Master Levels for Doom II will still have the MTWiD and UMP midis Edited May 12 by No-Man Baugh 3 Quote Share this post Link to post
elf-alchemist Posted May 12 (edited) 23 minutes ago, TMMMS said: okay so if i dont play with masterpack_ml25amp.wad i will get repeated tracks? or is it the opposite? 17 minutes ago, No-Man Baugh said: either which way you go: there should be 0 repeat tracks Across any given episode there aren't repeats with the default track list. There are however, some repeats if you look at all episodes at once. For example, D_COUNTD or "Shot Down" from the community MIDI pack is used 4(!) times in the complete set. But not more than once across an episode, say in Inferno for example you won't hear the same track twice: Spoiler You can also see in that table that there were only a handful of changed tracks from the original selection in "Works of the Masters", since some tracks felt odd to keep in, like the ones in the Lost Levels, cause i really wanted to avoid the D_RUNNIN issue with the original maps as well, I made the decision to switch D_RUNNIN to D_RUNNI2 and so on: Spoiler Anyway, I'm now regretting saying that I would freeze any changes to the MIDI selection, now that there is a known demand for non repetition :P. As I am not exactly the most musically inclined person, I kept most songs the same from WotM, making only few changes to some maps. Such as in Cabal, where two consecutive maps having D_DOOM as their sound. It felt better to just use the community MIDIs instead, so I could make Cabal 6 used D_DOOM2, instead. Spoiler And other than that, there have been no changes to the WotM tracks from Titan and Klietech. But yeah, I'm eating my words now, I feel. Edited May 12 by elf-alchemist a 3 Quote Share this post Link to post
costadevale Posted May 12 Finally had some time to play this pack. Awesome work. I particularly like the new sky for the Inferno episode, it fits way better than the starry sky one. I can see now why you initially chose not to use Peter's MIDI pack. It just sounds too silly. It fits well with the original release, sure, but for me it sounds a little off with the 46 maps. Maybe it's because I'm now taking these levels seriously. I don't know. Anyways, this pack is awesome, keep up the good work :) 3 Quote Share this post Link to post
UnknDoomer Posted May 12 (edited) Quote From what I remember, the Master Levels were poo-pooed for years, even though only Chris Klie's maps were the only ones that felt like true junk, and even then, it was probably no more than a few of them at most. If anything's the issue with them overall, it's probably that they haven't aged well relative to the preferences of the Doom community and somehow, that got turned into "other than the Dr. Sleep maps, and a couple of Cranium's, they're all bad!" Well. For example I'm, personally, last time tried to run it somewhere around 2014. Original version, no any, boom including, ports been used, etc. Long story short - my note regarding this case, basically long before I've starting to write one on regular basis, was a rather quite negative. It's actually always was lack of good maps in my opinion, both by old and modern standards. I'm probably not played so much "ancient" custom wads, but still, there were some decent one in compare to, same as this pack, as I've got, originally presented as "semi-official" thing. I see this pack contain version of 46 maps. In 2014 I've played one of 21 from Steam, when it was a part of "ID Super Pack" for about 2$. As "Pros" marked two maps - "TEETH" and "Bad Dream". Not remember much about the rest now. Edited May 12 by UnknDoomer 1 Quote Share this post Link to post
elf-alchemist Posted May 12 6 hours ago, costadevale said: Finally had some time to play this pack. Awesome work. I particularly like the new sky for the Inferno episode, it fits way better than the starry sky one. I can see now why you initially chose not to use Peter's MIDI pack. It just sounds too silly. It fits well with the original release, sure, but for me it sounds a little off with the 46 maps. Maybe it's because I'm now taking these levels seriously. I don't know. Anyways, this pack is awesome, keep up the good work :) Exactly, skies are important. Sadly, most Master Levels were mix-and-matching sky textures. But in here, it has a proper 1:1 correspondence of episode to sky, bringing that cohesion aspect back into the maps, one of the many small reasons people tend to dislike the ML. @Peter's MIDI are perfect for people who hate the ML. I'm not one of those. I saw them differently, I experience them differently, and now I can never look at them the way most paople who played them do. I'm currently in my simplicity phase of Doom, I'm very much enjoying older maps and fixing the ML was perfect for me right now. So after all that, I couldn't hate them anymore, even the maps that I still don't like very much, by Chris Klie, I can at least appreciate for what they did. He made his 12 maps in a crappy PC (hell, for all I know, could've very well made BFThud and The Lost Episodes of Doom in the same PC, since everything he did, was in '95), so he got creative and made very tricksy-and-trapsy maps, devilish little tricks everywhere. But I guess, I acquired a taste for all of them really, barring Dr. Sleep's objectively better design, I think that it just takes some time for people to like these levels. And thank you <3 54 minutes ago, UnknDoomer said: I see this pack contain version of 46 maps. In 2014 I've played one of 21 from Steam, when it was a part of "ID Super Pack" for about 2$. As "Pros" marked two maps - "TEETH" and "Bad Dream". Not remember much about the rest now. Well, now. Wouldn't this be a perfect opportunity to try them out again :), to give them a second try as a complete package in proper episodic structure, maybe? And, i f I understand this correctly, the two maps you remember liking were "The Express Elevator to Hell" and "Bad Dream"? It is a very uncommon preference to see, I generally have seen people crap on TEETH at lot, and BD is less talked about, even being disregard by some. Not that it is bad, I really liked TEETH and had fun figuring out how to beat BD, the Cabal episode being my favorite in terms of gameplay. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post
TMMMS Posted May 12 given how bfthud is 29 maps long its a surprise chris klie didnt submit it to id instead of what would become his master levels submissions all he wouldve needed to do is make one final map and two secret levels and id software wouldve gotten itself a full megawad! 1 Quote Share this post Link to post
UnknDoomer Posted May 12 (edited) Quote Well, now. Wouldn't this be a perfect opportunity to try them out again :), to give them a second try as a complete package in proper episodic structure, maybe? And, i f I understand this correctly, the two maps you remember liking were "The Express Elevator to Hell" and "Bad Dream"? It is a very uncommon preference to see, I generally have seen people crap on TEETH at lot, and BD is less talked about, even being disregard by some. Not that it is bad, I really liked TEETH and had fun figuring out how to beat BD, the Cabal episode being my favorite in terms of gameplay. 46 maps usually a not short journey, still, will see how things will go in overall on my side and would I be able to put this on usual recording shedule / not. After all it way not that hard in compare to, for exaple, two recently reviewed wads. Regarding mentioned maps - yes, it seems so, those two. Edited May 12 by UnknDoomer 1 Quote Share this post Link to post
UnknDoomer Posted May 12 (edited) Quote I feel like step by step instructions wouldn't go amiss. These things are only easy if one knows the steps involved. :) @Average, @elf-alchemist, short / detailed installation instruction. Windows 11 + Steam + latest GzDoom. 1. You will need a copy of The Ultimate Doom, Doom II and Master Levels in Steam. 2. Locate E:\Games\Steam\SteamApps\common\Doom 2\base, take DOOM2.WAD from there and put in it C:\Users\...\Downloads\masterpack_v0.3.2\source. Repeat the same for 2.1. E:\Games\Steam\SteamApps\common\Doom 2\finaldoombase\TNT.WAD, 2.2. 20 files from E:\Games\Steam\SteamApps\common\Doom 2\masterbase\master\wads and 2.3. DOOM.WAD from E:\Games\Steam\SteamApps\common\Ultimate Doom\base. 3. Press win+r, put "cmd" into. 4. In "cmd" write: "Python". Download it from Microsoft Store. 5. Back to "cmd" write: "cd downloads", "cd masterpack_v0.3.2", "python3 masterpack.py". 6. Take your masterpack.wad and drop it into E:\Games\Steam\SteamApps\common\Doom 2\base. 7. Download GzDoom, put in E:\Games\Steam\SteamApps\common\Doom 2\base\, rename or delete original DosBox.exe, rename GzDoom.exe to DosBox.exe. 8. Open gzdoom_portable.ini, after [Global.Autoload] put path=E:\Games\Steam\SteamApps\common\Doom 2\base\masterpack.wad. 9. Now run Doom II (Original) via Steam. Edited May 12 by UnknDoomer 2 Quote Share this post Link to post
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