How do I git gud?

[Lila Feuer]

I'll stress what's been echoed from what I do and never save during fights, because it promotes bad habits. Saving before and after should be permitted to allow you to retry fights if you want to try a different strategy. Otherwise your familiarity with the arsenal, the monster roster, and general reaction time and spatial awareness will give you a huge edge. If a monster is making a mistake i.e attacking their friends, let them, infighting is a large part of combat and takes some of the heat off you during particularly intense battles.

[Li'l devil]

Basically just keep playing more Doom, preferably varied stuff, and you'll keep gitting goodlier.

[idbeholdME]

UV -fast would be a natural progression.

 

Careful though, because once you get used to that, normal speed will seem like slow motion. I can't really enjoy the game without -fast anymore.

 

Another tip would be to practice tough scenarios. Don't bother with saveless, single segment or whatever. You are not getting any better by constantly replaying the easy parts. It is the fights where you regularly die and figuring out how to beat them that helps the most.

[Mr Masker]

1 hour ago, Lila Feuer said:

I'll stress what's been echoed from what I do and never save during fights, because it promotes bad habits. Saving before and after should be permitted to allow you to retry fights if you want to try a different strategy. Otherwise your familiarity with the arsenal, the monster roster, and general reaction time and spatial awareness will give you a huge edge. If a monster is making a mistake i.e attacking their friends, let them, infighting is a large part of combat and takes some of the heat off you during particularly intense battles.

I have used this post to describe my own play style. : )

[EvilSqueegee]

I hadn't thought of this for Doom, since it's something I apply to competitive gaming instead, but record your gameplay and rewatch the footage. Each time you die or take damage, pause the video and ask yourself what you could have done differently. Do this enough and you'll notice patterns emerging; when the patterns repeat often enough you'll start to see those situations happening while you play and you'll make different decisions than the ones that got you killed in the pattern.

[LegendaryEevee]

I started UV Maxing everything.  I have played since 94 but when I got my gameplay more organized it bettered my playing.  I went like such:

Classic Doom --> TNT --> Going Down (was too hard so switched to) --> Eviternity --> Ancient Aliens --> DooM II Master Levels.

 

Each time I would work my way through these WADs I would find myself getting better and better and when I'd hit a road block like Going Down (darn underground levels).  I would do a different WAD to get a little better than try again at Going Down till I'd hit a road block again.  It's make sure what you're playing challenges you makes you sweat, may kill you a time or two.  But if it's taking you an hour to get past a level may want to back off and come back to it later.

Edited May 6, 2024 by LegendaryEevee

[Celestin]

By gradually playing more and more difficult maps. Personally, I use stuff like lists by xvertigox and Lewonx or Dean of Doom's difficulty grades to assess my current capabilities and seek the next thing to improve.

 

I agree with @idbeholdME about using saves, playing a long map blind without saves only to die to something I couldn't predict lead me to a burnout. Remember, behind every saveless demo/video of a tough map is a lot of grind to learn the map, figure out the strategy and make it consistent.

[Bedingungsl.Grundeinkommen]

8 hours ago, TheMagicMushroomMan said:

Zero Master sold me some of these and they work pretty good. 

 

If this was real I'd order in a heartbeat :D

 

11 hours ago, dasho said:

 

Just saying: I have already been playing the game (on and off) since 1993. Therefore, I thought that after 30 years I could maybe ask for a more detailed advice than that. So don't worry. I will always simply "play more" anyway.

 

11 hours ago, Dheta said:

Play on UV, go for all kills, don't use mid fight saves and play progressively harder wads. https://www.doomworld.com/forum/topic/107015-wad-progression-for-skill-improvement/ is somewhat out of date and lacking options post Sunlust but its a great baseline till then. once you beaten Sunlust there's and ocean of difficult wads you can tackle. 

 

Personally I've never bothered with Single Segment runs, harder maps are overwhelmingly on the longer side in my experience and dealing with large difficult maps is quite a time investment. If you do go that route stick with shorter maps for your own sanity's sake. Hard fights will force you to "git gud" on their own or at least that's how it was for me, so I don't see the point in doing Single Segments if your only goal is to improve.

Just to be clear: I thought "single segment" means that you keep all your weapons etc after each map when playing through several maps which are part of a bigger WAD. The opposite of pistol start, kind of. Is this not correct?

 

8 hours ago, vanilla_d00m said:

You are already good, after reading you're post I see you as a MASTER OF DOOM.  I tried Speed Of Doom mod years ago.. I deleted it right after.  

 

I use keyboard only and HMP.. and I save every STEPS I make.  I wanted to get better but no point if im not having fun doing that.  HMP Forever.

Thank you <3

Edited May 7, 2024 by Bedingungsl.Grundeinkommen

[Dheta]

18 minutes ago, Bedingungsl.Grundeinkommen said:

Just to be clear: I thought "single segment" means that you keep all your weapons etc after each map when playing through several maps which are part of a bigger WAD. The opposite of pistol start, kind of. Is this not correct?

 

 

Eh I've always thought it was just another way of saying that you're doing a map saveless, but maybe I've gotten the wrong impression.

 

To be clear what I meant when saying single segment, was just doing saveless runs on a per map basis and nothing to do with not doing pistol starts, cause you should always pistol start if you don't want to trivialize the wads you're playing.

[roadworx]

something i just wanna say is that, unlike what certain people here are saying, uv-maxing or going for 100% of anything isn't gonna improve your skills. wasting your time trying to get everything won't make you better, as it doesn't really require actual skill to begin with in the vast majority of cases.

[Stabbey]

I agree that to improve, you need to do individual fights saveless. However, I don't think that doing an entire map saveless is especially useful training.

 

You get partway into a map, die, then have to start over, then do the part of the map you're familiar with again. If you get all the way back up to where you died the first time, and die again, then what? You start the entire map over, and redo the parts you already beat twice. You're spending time on something you already know how to beat - that's not teaching you anything, you already have that knowledge. The teaching only matters for the part you didn't beat.

[DNSKILL5]

You get good being a well rounded player by combating human opponents in DM and winning. You learn new ways of moving and utilizing the weapons that you wouldn't from SP alone. Then, you play the game blind folded and snatch pebble from hand. 

[Bedingungsl.Grundeinkommen]

11 hours ago, rita remton said:

apart from playing more maps, there is another "pathway to many abilities some consider to be... unnatural..." :P

you could use the [ultimate doom builder] map editor to increase your gaming skills. simply recreate your handicap in the map editor, then practice until you are satisfied with your progress. such focus in training in areas that actually need improvement allows for a much faster growth.

you could use this method to increase platforming skills, double shotting cybies, punching revvies, etc. i used this method to eradicate any lingering fear of playing slaughter maps, like my map below (made within the first half hour i've ever used udb). i conquered it after about 200-300 attempts (no longer counted after the 200 mark). quite stressful due to my amateurish gaming skills, but many players should be able to achieve the goal with far fewer attempts. anyway, good luck with your journey to become a better player :)

 

[hello wad].

Beat it on my ~5th try! :D

 

40 minutes ago, Stabbey said:

I agree that to improve, you need to do individual fights saveless. However, I don't think that doing an entire map saveless is especially useful training.

 

You get partway into a map, die, then have to start over, then do the part of the map you're familiar with again. If you get all the way back up to where you died the first time, and die again, then what? You start the entire map over, and redo the parts you already beat twice. You're spending time on something you already know how to beat - that's not teaching you anything, you already have that knowledge. The teaching only matters for the part you didn't beat.

Yes I agree, using saves this way is most likely the most efficient way of practicing.

 

42 minutes ago, roadworx said:

something i just wanna say is that, unlike what certain people here are saying, uv-maxing or going for 100% of anything isn't gonna improve your skills. wasting your time trying to get everything won't make you better, as it doesn't really require actual skill to begin with in the vast majority of cases.

I guess it makes a difference when playing maps where ammo is sparse.

  

1 hour ago, Dheta said:

Eh I've always thought it was just another way of saying that you're doing a map saveless, but maybe I've gotten the wrong impression.

Yes I think there is a lot of confusion about this term. A few years ago I also thought what you thought it meant. I just tried to check again and it seems like it does mean "continuous play" (so no pistol start) but it is rather used when referring to speed running (speed running a whole WAD, carrying weapons etc over from map to map). So speed running individual maps one by one (including pistol starts I assume) would be the opposite of single segment if I got it right. Can someone confirm?

Edited May 7, 2024 by Bedingungsl.Grundeinkommen

[Shepardus]

26 minutes ago, Bedingungsl.Grundeinkommen said:

Yes I think there is a lot of confusion about this term. A few years ago I also thought what you thought it meant. I just tried to check again and it seems like it does mean "continuous play" (so no pistol start) but it is rather used when referring to speed running (speed running a whole WAD, carrying weapons etc over from map to map). So speed running individual maps one by one (including pistol starts I assume) would be the opposite of single segment if I got it right. Can someone confirm?

Single segment means without saves. "Segments" in this context would be loading from a save, or splicing demos in the context of speedrunning/demo recording.

Edited May 7, 2024 by Shepardus

[Bedingungsl.Grundeinkommen]

1 hour ago, Shepardus said:

Single segment means without saves. "Segments" in this context would be loading from a save, or splicing demos in the context of speedrunning/demo recording.

So does it mean without saves when talking about a whole WAD or when talking about a single map?

 

11 hours ago, lukasxd said:

My advice is to go out and live your life and play videogames with the sole propose of entertainment. We waste many time in something fruitless like be good at videogames.

If someone asks which PC to buy, would you suggest rather buying a new car instead? Srsly.

Edited May 7, 2024 by Bedingungsl.Grundeinkommen

[Shepardus]

4 minutes ago, Bedingungsl.Grundeinkommen said:

So does it mean without saves when talking about a whole WAD or when talking about a single map?

You can play a map in a single segment, or a whole WAD, "single segment" by itself doesn't imply one or the other. Usually people aren't talking about playing an entire megawad in one go, though.

[Bedingungsl.Grundeinkommen]

-

Edited May 7, 2024 by Bedingungsl.Grundeinkommen

[Bedingungsl.Grundeinkommen]

21 minutes ago, Shepardus said:

You can play a map in a single segment, or a whole WAD, "single segment" by itself doesn't imply one or the other. Usually people aren't talking about playing an entire megawad in one go, though.

I just checked again and I was right. Single segment refers to speed running a whole WAD with no saves (and not playing individual maps/no pistol start), carrying your weapons etc over from one map to another as you normally would when playing with no pistol starts.

 

"What is the difference between RTA and Single-segment?
I feel like there is some confusion on RTA as a term and not a lot of information.
Basically, 'single segment' is a term invented by SpeedDemosArchive: "Speedruns that beat a game in one sitting without loading save files or quitting are single-segment runs."

Source: 

 

 

Example:

"[WR]Doom 2: No Rest for the Living UV Max Single Segment in 54:55" (by Cyberdemon531a)

Source: 

 

 

Another example:

"Doom 64 (2020) - Watch Me Die! Single Segment Speedrun in 55:53 (53:36 IGT)" (by Zero Master)

Source: 

 

 

[Cadman]

Well, try playing Momento Mori or Eternal Doom by TeamTNT (ahem).  I'm not the most most talented player but I'm not that bad either.  Be patient, be wary of traps.  Setup your keyboard that your comfortable with and like someone else said just keep playing and you'll get better but have fun!

 

Cadman - Member TeamTNT / Doom2 Grandmaster DHT5 Standards

[Lila Feuer]

You can technically beat Eternal Doom in a day without so much as a headache!

[Shepardus]

1 hour ago, Bedingungsl.Grundeinkommen said:

I just checked again and I was right. Single segment refers to speed running a whole WAD with no saves (and not playing individual maps/no pistol start), carrying your weapons etc over from one map to another as you normally would when playing with no pistol starts.

The Reddit post you linked explains the difference between "RTA" and "single segment," in which the key distinction is whether saving/loading is allowed. They were talking about it in the context of running full games since that's how most games are speedrun, but the "full game" isn't the important part of the definition given. If you look around, you can find people talking about single segment runs of individual levels, or even single segment runs off multiple games in a row. Don't overthink it; "single segment" isn't some formally defined technical jargon, it's literally the words "single" and "segment."

Edited May 7, 2024 by Shepardus

[Bedingungsl.Grundeinkommen]

2 hours ago, Shepardus said:

The Reddit post you linked explains the difference between "RTA" and "single segment," in which the key distinction is whether saving/loading is allowed. They were talking about it in the context of running full games since that's how most games are speedrun, but the "full game" isn't the important part of the definition given. If you look around, you can find people talking about single segment runs of individual levels, or even single segment runs off multiple games in a row. Don't overthink it; "single segment" isn't some formally defined technical jargon, it's literally the words "single" and "segment."

That's fine.

 

2 hours ago, Cadman said:

Well, try playing Momento Mori or Eternal Doom by TeamTNT (ahem).  I'm not the most most talented player but I'm not that bad either.  Be patient, be wary of traps.  Setup your keyboard that your comfortable with and like someone else said just keep playing and you'll get better but have fun!

 

Cadman - Member TeamTNT / Doom2 Grandmaster DHT5 Standards

https://www.doomworld.com/idgames/themes/TeamTNT/eternal/eternal this one?

[rita remton]

5 hours ago, Bedingungsl.Grundeinkommen said:

Beat it on my ~5th try! :D

lol! you are roughly 60 times better than me in terms of gaming skills, and people say my maps are a bit hard (the difficulty of a map usually correlates to the playing skills of the mapper, provided the mapper could beat their own map). awesome! and congrats! :)

[Bedingungsl.Grundeinkommen]

12 minutes ago, rita remton said:

lol! you are roughly 60 times better than me in terms of gaming skills, and people say my maps are a bit hard (the difficulty of a map usually correlates to the playing skills of the mapper, provided the mapper could beat their own map). awesome! and congrats! :)

Thank you! :) I just picked up the SSG, went for the plasma, killed all the hit scanners (and weaker enemies like Imps) first (if possible) to quickly create more space for dodging and that's it. You also need some luck I guess, I haven't tried beating your map consistently :D

[DiavoJinx]

18 hours ago, EvilSqueegee said:

I hadn't thought of this for Doom, since it's something I apply to competitive gaming instead, but record your gameplay and rewatch the footage. Each time you die or take damage, pause the video and ask yourself what you could have done differently. Do this enough and you'll notice patterns emerging; when the patterns repeat often enough you'll start to see those situations happening while you play and you'll make different decisions than the ones that got you killed in the pattern.

This is excellent teaching advice.  Good for multiple hobbies, including when learning to play a difficult piece of music.

I remember on launch, Starcraft 2 let you see replays of your matches, and you could see what an opponent was doing (build order).  I learned how to play Zerg by playing against really difficult AI (ooh that term has changed over the years, huh?) and after I lost I'd check out their build order and startup intentions, and emulate it myself.

 

Also a point I think often missed when critiquing oneself by watching recordings:

Don't only focus on the negative, the "What could I do better?" (Easy to focus on that line of thinking, as it's the base goal to get better.)  Remember to focus on the positive: "What did I do right?" Reinforce that. =)

Edited May 7, 2024 by DiavoJinx

[LegendaryEevee]

@Bedingungsl.Grundeinkommen  I recommend to you this WAD.  It is one of the best I have ever played and starts off very easy and ramps up to insane lengths by the end of it.  Can be enjoyed on any difficulty and don't feel bad if you need to cheat for the final map it is a little B.S. depending on difficulty.

 

What's amazing is it grows your confidence and skill as the levels and episodes go on. So by the end of it you'll tackle two Cyberdemons at once and not even bat an eye.  Give it a shot it definately improved my gameplay going through this one.

 

Eviternity Download

[lukasxd]

11 hours ago, Bedingungsl.Grundeinkommen said:

So does it mean without saves when talking about a whole WAD or when talking about a single map?

 

If someone asks which PC to buy, would you suggest rather buying a new car instead? Srsly.

That analogy sucks, because with a PC you can also work or do things more exciting than being good on a game lol.