1 SECTOR - Community Project idea

[bobstremglav]

Various level and game designers, including of Doom community, were coming up with unbelievable challenges and still were able to overcome it. How far we can push pit of Doom mapping?

After seeing WAD with 2 sectors maps I decided that next logical step is 1 sector. Being lover of Wolfenstein 3D flat levels with certain amount of details and dynamic gameplay I think that same can be applied to Doom: even under heavy restrictions and going against engine abilities mappers can make levels of shocking quality (in good sense...).

 

Project restrictions:

- Boom-compatible (complevel 9) Doom 2, all regular maps slots (1-32). You can use pure vanilla as well, basically if your maps runs in complevel 9 then it's good.

- Singleplayer is necessary. Cooperative and deathmatch support must be at least provided by player starts.

- Usage of custom stuff goes like this (size limit is still question for now):

New textures specific to your map are allowed.

Common resources for whole project which are skyboxes, various screen graphics, music, sounds, hud are limited: such resources should be go with interests of other people. For example, if you make skybox for E1 then it would be nice to be approved first by E1 mappers, and if you propose something larger for example title screen everybody should be able to tell opinion on it.

New sprites and objects are not allowed.

There is list of replaced stuff

Spoiler

 

- Any map editor, any techniques to trick player into thinking that maps are actually impressive looking. But gameplay is more important!

- Not more than 3 maps per person.

 

How to contribute? Simple. Just check this list. If map number isn't listed then it's free to take, otherwise... no.

Then make map according to restrictions and send it in thread. There no set deadline for now, so take your time calmly.

Spoiler

Unspecified:

@Walter confetti

 

Any free map slot:

@ivymagnapinna (10-20)

@Pancrasio(1-30)

@AnArchaicApparatus(1-30)

@Spectere(1-30)

You can make map for any slot for now, then it will be moved for proper position.

 

1 - me

2 - me

3 - @Quin

4 - @Proxy-MIDI

5 - @RED77

8 - @iddq_tea

9 - @Plerb

10 - @Korni27

18 - @Astar

20 - @iddq_tea

21 - @Kras

26 - @LSC Lasico

28 - @plums

32 - @Korni27

 

-But wait, even GZDoom can't run 1 sector maps properly!

-You're right, for that's reason there's 1 only workaround for you: your maps MUST have second sector, but NO MORE. And this second sector must be identical to main one: it can't have different textures, different effects and lighting; its lines can't be used any way, just like sector itself (so you can't use it to make different area, or second teleport pad). Such workaround is needed because otherwise monsters won't do anything other than walk around.

(Important discovery by iddqd_tea: once the reject table has been created, there is no need for the extra sector anymore - it can be safely delete. Use this method to make truly 1 sector maps)

 

There some examples of work

Spoiler

 

Download:

(TO BE FIXED)

 

DISCORD SERVER:

https://discord.com/invite/GsWUJDrN5E

Edited May 15 by bobstremglav

[iddq_tea]

Not sure about GZDoom but vanilla has issues with one-sector maps due to some odd line of sight bug causing all monsters to become passive (presumably the game thinks they cannot see the player), so the maps should contain a tiny extra sector somewhere within the main one to initialize the reject table properly. I put mine near the start door.

 

EDIT: Also, larger res examples of my map:

 

Spoiler

 

Edited May 14 by iddq_tea

[ax34]

Also afaik if you have too many light sources (e.g. fireballs) inside one sector GZDoom will crawl to slideshow.

[The Almighty Egg]

Finally a good Community project

[DynamiteKaitorn]

I'm half tempted to throw my hat into this ring to see how well I can do. XD

[Walter confetti]

How that crates warehouse is possible with 1 sector? Patches magic? I made a map with the same limitations for Limit Buffet, i say why no doing another here?

 

In short, sign me in boss, i'm in.

[bobstremglav]

7 minutes ago, Walter confetti said:

How that crates warehouse is possible with 1 sector? Patches magic? I made a map with the same limitations for Limit Buffet, i say why no doing another here?

 

In short, sign me in boss, i'm in.

I suppose middle textures. I was amazed too.

 

Do your map as map01 for now, I think we can change it to right slot later. My maps take 01 and 02, which isn't bad but iddqd_tea map also takes slot 01, so I don't know where he wants to see his map now

@iddq_tea , which slot I should move your map?

Edited May 14 by bobstremglav

[Quin]

Thinking about contributing something small to this project... Count me in!

 

 

EDIT:

@bobstremglav I'd like Map03, no one could ever forget their third time doing anything. Edited the map to fit the constraints of the but I do have one question in particular. Do the middle textures in the center of this area void the rules?

 

 

 

Edited May 14 by Quin
Edited photo and post

[Lila Feuer]

Next they'll think of zero sector, colloquially known as "No Doom."

[iddq_tea]

@Walter confetti

 

Middle textures. Gotta make sure they don't form a sector though, so leave a one-pixel-wide gap somewhere in there. This also explains why the collision is janky, impassable linedefs don't reset your velocity.

 

I had to add 64-unit tall custom textures to my map because you can't lower a 128-unit tall texture into the floor on the software renderer, it will "bleed" into the sector unless you create a second sector behind it and change its brightness or texture, which is not allowed in this project.

 

 

@bobstremglav Any slot is fine, but you can move it to MAP08 for now.

[bobstremglav]

Since rules are more clear now, I take slots 1 and 2 for now. iddqd_tea takes slot 8

Check original post now for updates

[Proxy-MIDI]

I would like to make one map (slot 04) for this project. 

Edited May 14 by Proxy-MIDI
Add the slot.

[bobstremglav]

@Walter confetti

@Proxy-MIDI

@Quin

iddqd_tea map was moved, so other slots can be taken calmly. Just edit your messages to show what map numbers you want to take

[Plerb]

I had an idea for a map and I already started making it. Slot can be map09 I guess. At least until Xaser comes in and explains UMAPINFO and MBF21.

[Kras]

If you accept novice mappers. I'll borrow 21 slots. I wonder what I'll do.

[Stupid Bunny]

Interesting concept. @Clippy made a map once with actually only one sector, it is possible to make an interesting map where the monsters never attack for sure. Maybe a good gimmick for secret levels?

 

I’d offer to submit something but I need a break lol

[bobstremglav]

5 minutes ago, Plerb said:

UMAPINFO and MBF21.

Is it compatible with Boom?

[Korni27]

This sounds insane... I'm in. I'm up to create some maps and music if I'm allowed

[bobstremglav]

@Korni27 Sure! Just specify your map slot

[BeachThunder]

4 hours ago, bobstremglav said:

-But wait, even GZDoom can't run 1 sector maps properly!

 

What does this mean? GZDoom clearly can run 1 sector maps. So, what makes them improper?

[bobstremglav]

2 minutes ago, BeachThunder said:

What does this mean? GZDoom clearly can run 1 sector maps. So, what makes them improper?

vanilla has issues with one-sector maps due to some odd line of sight bug causing all monsters to become passive (presumably the game thinks they cannot see the player), so the maps should contain a tiny extra sector somewhere within the main one to initialize the reject table properly. I put mine near the start door.

Here's explanation from iddqd_tea. I checked it today and even GZDoom has this behaviour

I updated list of rules, should be clear enough for now.

[Plerb]

28 minutes ago, bobstremglav said:

Is it compatible with Boom?

Well MBF21 is an updated version of Boom, it's backwards compatible but it adds some features. If @Xaser drops by he'd explain it better. :P

[bobstremglav]

1 minute ago, Plerb said:

Well MBF21 is an updated version of Boom, it's backwards compatible but it adds some features. If @Xaser drops by he'd explain it better. :P

Sorry, project is Boom compatible, meaning that if stuff you're going to use isn't supported by it then it have to be dropped.
I think you can still do a lot with Boom under such restrictions. Maybe I don't understand you correctly

[Korni27]

20 minutes ago, bobstremglav said:

@Korni27 Sure! Just specify your map slot

If I can take two, it would be cool if I can take slot 10 and 32.

[Xaser]

Well hi there. :P

 

Yup, MBF21 is basically "Boom 2", adds a bunch of new features and works in all the main ports folks use these days -- it's a direct upgrade. This project in particular would get a lot of mileage out of the "Block player" and "Block land monsters" flags.

 

The other side of the coin, UMAPINFO (which us also supported by the same family of ports), lets you arrange maps in whatever order you want, add secret maps wherever, split the projects into episodes if you want, and so forth. For community projects like these, it's best not to have people pre-reserve map slots (or to even have a fixed number of "map slots" at all -- the 32-map restriction is gone) and instead rearrange maps afterward to fit, else you'll get a very chaotic difficulty/theme progression (unless contributors go out of their way to coordinate with their neighbors, which typically doesn't happen).

[iddq_tea]

I'd like to also claim one more slot, maybe MAP20.

 

Also, important discovery (will bother Bobby to update the thread with this information later): once the reject table has been created, there is no need for the extra sector anymore - it can be safely deleted. This can be a true one-sector project.

[bobstremglav]

@Xaser, I don't think that these features will be so important to use.
If there will be more maps than 32 then "part 2" could be calmly published, also Doom 2 has vanilla support for 2 more bonus maps (33-34)

Edited May 14 by bobstremglav

[Xaser]

This is a community project -- you're making the decision to remove these features from other mappers' hands, and their absence does nothing to benefit the project or its theme.

 

Keep in mind that this isn't something that requires a "version bump" on everyone's part -- folks don't suddenly have to learn a new map format (e.g. going to UDMF), or be restricted in port choice (e.g. transition the project to GZDoom), or anything of the sort. These features are freely available for use in the target ports, and their absence does nothing to improve the final product.

[bobstremglav]

At this pace we could just reject MBF21 as well and go to ZDoom features and 3D models.

Beauty of this project is restriction, not power. You should make good map by your creativity and pure skill, not overkill port features.

Boom is long living and standartised source port, which map format is supported by much bigger variety of other source ports, giving more choice where to play it, while MBF21 is very recent and having to support it only for few developers and bunch of unnecessary features is pointless. These features are useful for very serious mappacks, but do you want Sunder, or Scythe, or Alien Vendetta level of quality from 1 sector map? I doubt that even these used MBF21 to be good.

Map amount also never was a restriction, many more projects were good while having just 32 maps or less, also nothing restrict us from splitting project into 2 wads. There is no guarantee that we will even have thousands of maps to struggle with.

Boom features are already more than enough, using even more powerful standart just removes the challenge. Boom is limit removing as well, which is more important because most scary enemy for now is medusa, which iddqd_tea already experienced.

 

https://doomwiki.org/wiki/10_Sectors

Similiar project here, which had no trouble using boom-compatible and limit of 32 maps. They also didn't had problem of just splitting maps into another wad

Edited May 14 by bobstremglav

[LSC Lasico]

When's the deadline?

If it's fairly lenient, then Ill take map26.

 

edit: oh wait, I just learned how to read. Ill take map26, then.

Edited May 14 by LSC Lasico