The state of Doom on Linux

[kalensar]

1 hour ago, Average said:

I have an Nvidia GTX1080 ti which is a great card on windows but because of lack of drivers and, I presume, a reliance on x11 in Mint performance under Linux has been disappointing.  I can't use G-Sync without stuttering and without it I have a fair bit of screen tearing which drives me bonkers!  If I understand correctly Wayland will help with that but I'm a total noob so I may have misunderstood.  Also, as mentioned above, the MIDI does sound a bit off to me regardless of soundfont and audio in general is a bit flaky.  Sometimes it sounds like I'm listening down a ye olde telephone with a bad line.  These issues aren't peculiar to Doom but I thought I'd share my full experience as a Linux noob playing Doom

 

Ive been running linux mint for quite a while, and on older hardware than what you are sporting , but I can offer some insight. In order to use my Graphics driver to its best capacity I had to switch from the base LDM used in Mint over to the GDM3 used in Ubuntu, I run an old Radeon APU but the LDM display manager didnt match the Driver support that GDM3 supplied.

 

Next, this depends completely on if you are using Cinnamon. For whatever Reason Cinnamon is just horrible rendering GZDoom. I usually end up using the Gnome3 desktop and it gets much better graphical output for gaming in general.

 

For sound output, at least for GZD you can configure different SF2 outputs in the GZD soundfont folder. The other Source Ports I haven't screwed around with changing the sound outputs.

 

Lastly-- Gnome3 desktop comes with both an X11 setup and a Wayland setup. Ive used both and X11 is better for my dinosaur in general

Edited May 26 by kalensar

[Ar_e_en]

As someone who started out making maps long after switching from Windows to Linux - I've been editing all of my maps in SLADE's built-in map editor. Because I don't have any experience with UDB (or any other derivative connected to it) - I remain mostly ignorant on any features that UDB has (I've heard a few things about it tho). In a way - I have been acclimatized to SLADE's way of doing things. But even then - I do have some complaints about SLADE functionality on Linux.

 

The major one being the fact that I can't get the latest version of SLADE to run at all. From what I understand - due to some shenanigans involving the UI or graphical libraries being outdated on most stable distros (you know, for stability reasons) and SLADE asks you to use the newest version of said libraries (or something along those lines) - the newest versions of SLADE will not work if you try to compile the software as is. I think that the thing that you have to do in order to compile the software is to first compile a newer separate instance of the graphical libraries and then link them to the SLADE compilation. Which is possible,  but I decided to pick the path of least resistance and I just downloaded an older version of SLADE from the debian repository (which was still a pain, because I had to find a release where the graphical capabilities of SLADE still worked well enough for the map editor to work, and I did find a version where it did, but the TEXTURE editing features don't work anymore, because they just cause the program to crash). 

 

So for the time being - I've been using an outdated release of SLADE for my mapping needs. I could go down the compilation and linking route, but I usually only do that if it's the last resort, and even tho my version of SLADE works so far - I fear that I'll updated and upgrade my distro one day and the program will just stop working.
 

[bejiitas_wrath]

I just compiled UDB on Ubuntu, it was not too challenging, but there really should be a package to install though. But I will see how this goes.

Edited May 27 by bejiitas_wrath
Added image.

[Blzut3]

1 hour ago, Ar_e_en said:

The major one being the fact that I can't get the latest version of SLADE to run at all. From what I understand - due to some shenanigans involving the UI or graphical libraries being outdated on most stable distros (you know, for stability reasons) and SLADE asks you to use the newest version of said libraries (or something along those lines) - the newest versions of SLADE will not work if you try to compile the software as is. I think that the thing that you have to do in order to compile the software is to first compile a newer separate instance of the graphical libraries and then link them to the SLADE compilation. Which is possible,  but I decided to pick the path of least resistance and I just downloaded an older version of SLADE from the debian repository (which was still a pain, because I had to find a release where the graphical capabilities of SLADE still worked well enough for the map editor to work, and I did find a version where it did, but the TEXTURE editing features don't work anymore, because they just cause the program to crash).

Since you say Debian repos, how old of a distro and/or computer are you using?

[Martin Howe]

Unfortunately, UDB is the only map editor usable for anything but basic vanilla mapping. Sadly none of the devs use Linux and so even minor bugs don't get fixed. I build every game and tool from source (except SLADE whose instructions are out of date and never work) and UDB from source works fine .... almost.

 

UDB can't handle errors in ACS compilation; it should print them in a sub-field of the script editor; instead it just crashes. I resorted to maintaining map scripts as text files, compiling them on the command line with acc, then pasting back into the script editor and hitting F5. Other than that, it's mostly OK.

 

I'd love to see a true multi-platform version, but it's too heavily tied to WinForms. Sod MICROS~1 for calling .NET multi-platform when the thing you need to make it actually useful isn't.

[MFG38]

FYI, DSDA-Doom and DSDA Launcher are both available in the AUR.

[Average]

@kalensar Thanks for the info.  I'll look into it.  The choice of stuttering or tearing is not a pleasant one on Cinnamon. ;)

[andrewj]

4 hours ago, Martin Howe said:

Sod MICROS~1 for calling .NET multi-platform when the thing you need to make it actually useful isn't.

Blame the developers who choose tools with poor cross-platform support.

[dpJudas]

16 hours ago, Xaser said:

re: UDB on Linux, what it really needs right now is a developer who uses Linux to dive in and fix up some things. Running it with Mono (i.e. no Wine) is very close to boing in a working state, but there are some UI bugs and crashes that need fixing up before it becomes properly usable (I've tried it several times and the issues are intrusive enough to halt the mapping process entirely unfortunately).

 

The amount of effort needed to get it working 100% is probably not as big as people think -- all the hard stuff that was blocking DB2 from being Linux-viable back in the day (e.g. switching from SlimDX to OpenGL) has been done.

 

Exactly this. We ported UDB to OpenGL and we ported the codebase/project files to support Mono's winforms implementation. The remaining issues requires someone daily driving Linux to be willing to look into doing the final adjustments.

 

Boris isn't running Linux and while I did the work for the initial port, I don't daily drive Linux either. I'm also not a mapper, so I didn't even notice the problem with the node builders. This is one of those unfortunate situations where we need just the right kind of person that has the interest in Linux, Doom mapping with UDB and enough coding skills to debug each of the crashes/issues and find a workaround. We also could need someone with package management experience that will know how to properly build packages for the mono winforms build. Building it from source shouldn't really be something end users should be required to do.

[Martin Howe]

6 hours ago, andrewj said:

Blame the developers who choose tools with poor cross-platform support.

In the case of UDB, this may well have been a case of technical debt. DoomBuilder has been WinForms for longer than Linux has been a viable alternative to Windows for daily life; AFAIK, the need to have it on Linux (or Mac even) was never even envisaged at the time and likely could not have reasonably been forseen at the time.

 

Definitely nobody should be starting a GUI project with WinForms today; and that is why it is a shame there's nothing simple enough and cross platform unless one pays $$$/£££ for Xamarin or something like that. Or is there?

[Martin Howe]

5 hours ago, dpJudas said:

This is one of those unfortunate situations where we need just the right kind of person that has the interest in Linux, Doom mapping with UDB and enough coding skills to debug each of the crashes/issues and find a workaround. 

Familiarity with the codebase and libraries too; having programmed C# and WinForms a long time ago, I tracked down the ACS results crash as being inside one of the Scintilla libraries; if I didn't already have a gazillion projects on the go (not all fun/pleasure btw) I'd have a go myself :(

[Blzut3]

2 hours ago, Martin Howe said:

In the case of UDB, this may well have been a case of technical debt. DoomBuilder has been WinForms for longer than Linux has been a viable alternative to Windows for daily life; AFAIK, the need to have it on Linux (or Mac even) was never even envisaged at the time and likely could not have reasonably been forseen at the time.

I don't know if it was a matter of being foreseen.  2007-2008 was a hype period for Linux so there was definitely interest from the beginning from users, but I don't think CodeImp personally cared which is the more important factor.

 

If my memory serves macOS was basically irrelevant for (modern) Doom until 2009.

[neubejiita]

In UDB on Ubuntu, you can switch to the 3D view, but switching back does not work.

[Average]

23 hours ago, Ar_e_en said:

...

 

So for the time being - I've been using an outdated release of SLADE for my mapping needs. I could go down the compilation and linking route, but I usually only do that if it's the last resort, and even tho my version of SLADE works so far - I fear that I'll updated and upgrade my distro one day and the program will just stop working.
 

 

I don't know what flavour of Linux you're on but I got Slade 3.2.5 from my Software Manager in Linux Mint.  So, it's definitely possible to run the latest version on LM, at least.  I'd presume it'd be the same for other Ubuntu derived distros. :)

[elf-alchemist]

1 hour ago, Average said:

I don't know what flavour of Linux you're on but I got Slade 3.2.5 from my Software Manager in Linux Mint.  So, it's definitely possible to run the latest version on LM, at least.  I'd presume it'd be the same for other Ubuntu derived distros. :)

Can confirm that SLADE version 3.2.5 is on DRDTeam APT repository, available on really any Debian-based distro.
Also here to report Eternity, Odamex, (G/L/Q)ZDoom and Zandronum are also available in here.



All packages available:

Spoiler

 

[hobomaster22]

Doom Launcher could work but needs the same attention as UDB. Someone had Doom Launcher running through Proton and I did fix a few issues that came up, but haven't heard anything about it in a while. I only use Windows but I would attempt to fix more issues if someone attempted and reported them. I do have a Ubuntu install but it only exists to do some quick verification. With that Helion does have built binaries available on GitHub for Linux. I ensure it runs on Ubuntu before release.

[RataUnderground]

22 minutes ago, hobomaster22 said:

Doom Launcher could work but needs the same attention as UDB. Someone had Doom Launcher running through Proton and I did fix a few issues that came up, but haven't heard anything about it in a while. I only use Windows but I would attempt to fix more issues if someone attempted and reported them. I do have a Ubuntu install but it only exists to do some quick verification. With that Helion does have built binaries available on GitHub for Linux. I ensure it runs on Ubuntu before release.

I tested Helion and works pretty well, so its going into the list, thank you!
About Doom Launcher, its my favorite launcher. I'm sad that there is no native build in Linux.

Edited May 28 by RataUnderground

[Average]

@RataUndergroundI mentioned it above but it was probably lost in my wall of text.  Doom Runner is installable from Software Manager and as a package from the Doom Runner Github page. :)

[RataUnderground]

2 minutes ago, Average said:

@RataUndergroundI mentioned it above but it was probably lost in my wall of text.  Doom Runner is installable from Software Manager and as a package from the Doom Runner Github page. :)

Pretty cool, I didn't know that one. Tested and added to the list.

[Ar_e_en]

On 5/27/2024 at 3:52 AM, Blzut3 said:

Since you say Debian repos, how old of a distro and/or computer are you using?

My current distro is fairly recent, I installed it 4 to 6 months ago and it should be the most recent LTS release.

 

On 5/28/2024 at 2:03 AM, Average said:

 

I don't know what flavour of Linux you're on but I got Slade 3.2.5 from my Software Manager in Linux Mint.  So, it's definitely possible to run the latest version on LM, at least.  I'd presume it'd be the same for other Ubuntu derived distros. :)

My Slade version is 3.2.4. It's good enough for now.

 

Edited June 7 by Ar_e_en

[Blzut3]

3 hours ago, Ar_e_en said:

My current distro is fairly recent, I installed it 4 to 6 months ago and it should be the most recent LTS release.

If it's Ubuntu then the latest LTS (24.04) came out 1 month and some change ago. ;)  That said if you're running Ubuntu 22.04 or Debian 12 then there's no reason my Slade 3.2.6 package shouldn't work.  It should work all the back to Ubuntu 18.04 and Debian 10.

 

3 hours ago, Ar_e_en said:

My Slade version is 3.2.4. It's good enough for now.

I guess suit yourself, but your "major complaint" is invalid if you have no interest in working with the maintainer to figure out your issue.

[ygpa]

On 5/26/2024 at 3:35 PM, Maribo said:

UDB used via Mono has always worked fine for my Ubuntu and Pop!_OS systems, with the caveat that there is a 100% reproducible crash that I have to work around (right clicking while holding left click at the same time).

 

Just submitted a patch for this btw, should also be able to work around it by going to Tools > Preferences > Controls and binding the action "Export to image" to any key. Pressing that key will crash UDB but it should fix triggering the crash by pressing both mouse buttons.