maps that broke you, for better or for worse!

[fruity lerlups]

what i mean is, what is a map that was, relatively difficult and an experience, that has like seared itself into your brain, but after you conquered it you just felt, changed, like it broke you down and built you back up, for better or for worse. A map that just beat you down but made you keep coming back, saying, "I've got this, I can conquer you"
I'll start:
Rush Map09 - The Lava Heart, a map i loved, then hated, then adored, my second favourite map in Rush behind the titanic Map12, this map is DIFFICULT, from the hug the walls archvile placement, to the epic infighting party in the first arena, figuring out each battle and then doing a perfect execution of a UV-Max single segment, ohh my god, it was a... RUSH! I felt like the level beat me down to teach me a lesson than said, "come on, you're tougher than that", which brings me on to..
Rush Map12 - The first big slaughter map for a smol boi like myself, completing this felt gargantuan, like I'd slain goliath, the music, the vibes, the atmosphere, it all feels so, imposing, brutalist, something about the tough fights than the relatively easy section in the maze felt like this catharsis, I felt myself break down in desperation, wipe off my tears, grit my teeth, and go "i've freaking got this". Is this what sunlust feels like except times a hundred, because the feeling of completing this level felt, like I was renewed.
Ancient Aliens Map09 - from hate to hate to, ok.. i see what you're doing Joshy. This map packs punishment in such a tight package, and beat me down, its the archviles, this map doesn't look like an archvile gimmick map, its no Skillsaw "angry archviles" BUT, it is, its a map where when you complete your first playthrough and gear up to conquer it, that like crescendo of like, finite, compact, tight archvile punishment is like an adventure with these emotional highpoints, I haven't conquered this map UV-Max yet, i got so close but died to literally the final encounter, but its beckoning me, calling me, saying "i'm only beating you down to teach you a lesson, i'm not your friend, i'm your teacher". I'd actually say this map would be excellent without the frustrating start, that part just uggh, makes my eyes roll, I call it the "eff your health" section, but after that its kinda fun, I really hope to finally put this map to bed but for now, i'm not a bad enough dude.

What maps have just, broke you down and forced you to build yourself up over and over again?
 

[DynamiteKaitorn]

Pretty much every map barring MAP01 of Sunder. XD A brilliant set of difficult yet weirdly fun maps to romp through (preferably WITH mods).

[fruity lerlups]

2 hours ago, DynamiteKaitorn said:

Pretty much every map barring MAP01 of Sunder. XD A brilliant set of difficult yet weirdly fun maps to romp through (preferably WITH mods).

i fear playing sunder, ive played the first level, it already makes me stress out.

[Zerofuchs]

On that topic, the first time I managed to beat Sunder Map01 on UV, for all that it wasn't quite my first slaughter experience. Took me more tries than my ego is comfortable admitting.

 

It's kind of where I fully "clicked" the notion of slaughtermaps as tactical combat puzzles. Approached sensibly, what at first can seem like overwhelming odds becomes significantly more manageable. 

Edited June 7 by Zerofuchs
Extra sentence.

[vanilla_d00m]

Unholy Realms MAP30

 

The music helped me keep trying.  It sounds good in Fluidsynth. 

 

 

[Jimmy]

God Machine.

 

Spoiler

Still haven't beaten it.

 

Edited June 7 by Jimmy

[OniriA]

[LegendaryEevee]

@fruity lerlups @vanilla_d00m @Zerofuchs @Jimmy @OniriA many of you have heard me say many difficult things about this and it is for this exact reason when I went to my last big Doom break before becoming active here on DooM World and creating YT content for DooM I had reached the point where I could 100% all main games on Ultraviolence I didn't know of any modern WADs nor did I mess with Nightmare as far as I knew I had completed what Doom had to offer. Than it happened thanks to @MtPain27 and Deceino both covering it I decided to give it a try.

 

And Going Down WAD (Download Link) by Cyriak absolutely redefined for me how hard modern DooM has gotten 5 deaths figuring out how to survive map 01. 4 on Map 2 and literal days to get past Map 11 Vivisection.  This WAD forces you to get better to proceed. You are:

1. Usually having to be aware of ammo.

2. Always in a confined space.

3. Being hit with absolute waves of enemies.

 

It always feels like you don't have enough room to deal with what you're dealing with but you absolutely can beat every Map even Decino himself took multiple deaths in the mid-later half.  Every Map you complete feels like an absolute accomplishment. There was a time I though DooM had nothing else to offer. Now...I still can't get past Map13 on UV (Pistol Start).  Below are some screenshots to show how Wild this map is.  If you have not tried it absolutely give it a shot and if you think DooM has gotten easy Pistol Start all 32 I Triple Dog Dare You 😎😂

 

Edited June 7 by LegendaryEevee

[Vosolokoviteh]

Sunlust map 15 with the hell knight, barons and chaingunners horde

 

I was stuck in that part of the map for a long time, trying after death attempt, loading the game too much and suffering because I was dying all the time, and because I had to dodge the projectiles and hitscanners better, I remember that I was satisfied when I got through that part , and the rest seemed like a piece of cake to me, I feel like it was more than anything because I had bad armor and health at that time, and that's why I went days without passing that level lol

[KeaganDunn]

FCFF07 - the final secret fight in the center of the map, with cybers coming at you from all cardinal directions, is hella brutal. Even with a BFG and virtually unlimited cells, the amount of crossfire is unreal. Throw in 48 pain elementals as well and you got yourself a fun time. I've played it plenty of times now, and the final fight alone still takes me a lot of time and saves to get through.

 

First time I played through it, either on HMP or UV I can't remember, I was going insane on that last fight. I turned up the music to full volume and let the soothing high-pitched tones blast my ears. I didn't complete it then, but since then I've garnered plenty of skill and prowess to take on FCFF07 whenever I feel like it.

 

[capsaicin]

Toilet of the Gods Map03

It just doesn't end, circle around and wait for infighting because ammo and HP is scarce, try to get a new weapon? Get half way there and release even more enemies so you have to circle more, got a key? Archviles. Every. Time. It's excruciating, maybe I got a bad route but by the time I got the spectre, archie and cyber wave at the end I just ran to the exit. I've been demoing totg.wad recently so I suppose I'll have to learn that the hard way :3 (God help me)

[kalensar]

Hellbound Map22(?) I cant remember the exact map, but it starts with a forced pistol start into a dark blue and grey rubble map. Whatever the actual map number, that is the map that broke me on Hellbound and while using a Weapons Pack no less! Was playing thru Hellbound on my maiden voyage using my Perfect Dark Brutal Doom mod( weapons only version) on HMP and I couldnt beat the monster waves. It was perplexing especially since I stopped there and never played it again since except on small romps thru the first 3 maps.

[Amaruψ]

Any of the maps featuring Icon of Sin that follows the same basic formula of timing the rockets into an opening while riding on a moving platform can easily fit this description for me. I simply dislike this formula paired with the unpredictable nature of the monster spawner; it can either make life easy for you by mostly spawning pinkies, or it can make the fight a living nightmare by spamming arachnotrons or pain elementals. 

 

The map that truly takes the cake of having the worst possible implementation of this formula, at least to me is the Map 30 of Alien Vendetta. Give me 10 minutes with UDB and I can make a far more interesting and far less stressful Icon of Sin fight that whatever the absolute crap that map is.

[Gravepicker]

MAP08 of Swift Death. I was having trouble with some of the maps up to that point (the two switch sequence for getting to MAP01's exit made me realize I'm bad at turning quickly and precisely, for instance), but with some perseverance I got there. Now all I can see is too much hurtfloor, too much platforming, too much archvlie right behind you overlooking almost the whole map. Not saying the map is bad, it's me who needs to up his game, but damn, I hadn't needed this many tries on all the other maps combined. Only map in the .wad up to that point that still kills me in the first 5-6 seconds sometimes even knowing where things are. Well, not really now that I think about it, but MAP06 only did that to me cause I'm blind and didn't see the super shotty until the map was 90% clear of enemies.

[DynamiteKaitorn]

Another map I forgot to mention was "Fire & Ice" on HMP difficulty.

 

I regret choosing HMP.

[Gregor]

Hell Revealed MAP11: Underground Base. 

 

The first big boi map I beat on UV pistolstarts, and while it isn't even close to the hardest map in HR, it was the one that gave me that feeling you're talking about. It broke me over and over again but I kept coming back for more. There is something about that crude beauty of the wooden towers in the central room and the simple flow of the fights that sucked me in despite all the frustration, and when I eventually did beat it (after over a month), it felt like I beat Doom itself. From there on the rest of the mapset was still tough as nails, but nothing pushed me nearly as much or left such a lasting impression on me as Underground Base. This was truly my awakening moment for Doom and, as a result, is one of my favorite maps of all time.

[WSADKO]

Hell revealed map26 was quite a bitch, but looking back at it - its not all that bad

hell revealed map30 was about to break me but it turned out to be very doable consistently.

 

sunlust map29 was also getting there, but got better and got done with it

 

Dominus diabolicus maps 32 and 33 are also there and they are quite a step up in diffuclty because they require quite a bit of endurance , but then again - they only make me more pissed at my skill, which helps with getting over it and getting better.

 

 

 

[Jayextee]

Requiem, MAP23: Hatred.

Apt map name. I flat out just quit at the blue nazi fountain. Ghosts enemies are a fuckin' bug; not a feature. >:|

[mancubian_candidate]

Map 11 (Umbreion Nils) from Tangerine Nightmare - a brutal unforgiving experience 

[yakfak]

i agree with gregor, Hell Revealed MAP 11 was a huge bonk on the nose

I didn't treat it as a prompt to get better though lol I just retained it as trauma

[ivymagnapinna]

Sunlust map26, specifically the final fight which I repeatedly beat my head against til it got concussed. It's actually kind of incredible how inevitably you get swarmed and beaten to death there if you didn't save enough cells, which I did not. Somehow got past it using mostly rockets and doing so felt like breaking through my skill ceiling.

[Logamuffin]

For better, I know it’s a cliche answer but Mucus Flow. It’s a level of calculated brutality that’s hard to comprehend. Makes you feel small and hopeless, but in a good way. The map that made me realize even Vanilla Doom maps could feel like  art.

 

For worse, Combat Shock Map04: Messatsu. It’s just so long, tedious, cruel and unfun. Specifically remember the 1000 hell knights on the relatively narrow walkways. Most of the rest of the fights were equally as dumb and excessive. Maxing this was definitely one of the most miserable times I’ve had playing Doom. Luckily Combat Shock 2 was a whole lot better.

[GreenAnime]

Alien Vendetta Map25 imo my first and fav slaughter type map. The concept is just really cool, It is an huge wave of demons invading a town. The longer it is the more bs and difficult the segments are. The music fits incredibly well, it's hopeless, bleak, the situation is so heavy and everytime you're under pressured but you just need to do it, you need to stop this chaos at all cost. The map is known for incredibly long and is one of the 2nd hardest map in the wad (i think).

[Akagi666]

Scythe 2 Map 23 and 29, poison ivy II from SoD, Ticket to Eternity and Fire and Ice a long time ago. Ended up beating all these, but they were all memorable struggles.

[Murdoch]

The middle of Doom 64. Map13 and Map15 were a one-two punch of dickish design that made me quit the game and never come back.

[RHhe82]

The only one that fits the description is Scythe's final map, Fire & Ice. I had played on UV until that (except MAP28, which can go Sunlust MAP29 for all I care), but Fire & Ice the first I saw it felt impossible, even with saves, even when switching difficulty to ITYTD. I gave up there for a moment, until a couple of weeks later I tried ITYTD there again and managed to prevail after a long, savescummy struggle. Nowadays I can enjoy Fire & Ice on UV, no sweat.

 

A few people have mentioned Hell Revealed's MAP11. I wouldn't say it broke me, but coincidentally my HR playthrough has stood still on MAP11 since last October :P I think I started playing MAP11, but couldn't be bothered to finish it :P

 

EDIT: And I guess I can add Stardate 20x7's MAP06? MAP05? Anyway, the one with the revenant stairs. Had immense trouble there on all difficulties, watched videos and asked for tactical advice here on Doomworld, got angry, but eventually beat it on lower difficulty, thru some pacifist gimmickry (because the map is, I believe, slightly broken on lower-than-UV difficulties).

Edited June 8 by RHhe82

[Helton342]

Ive never played anything with the intention to get broken down. Though i do enjoy watching others slog through and literally groan of desperation whenever they play hardcore wads.

[ChaingunChaCha]

7 hours ago, Akagi666 said:

Scythe 2 Map 23

 

Yep this one. I think the sudden difficulty spike coming from nowhere and with it being a very hot start broke me back in the day.

[Treehouseminis]

Most maps from Abandon I think.  But the first one that sticks out to me is Map06.  Just never played a map with that type of architecture before and the first fight with the rev, cyberdemon Infighting took me the longest actually.  

[vanilla_d00m]

There is one in TNT Evilution, I forgot the name.  Continent Area, Passage Way or something, I can’t remember.  I only played through Final Doom once.  The map has lots of slime pits outside, I kept circling around the map for almost three hours and was about to call it quits and not finish Final Doom.  I didn’t want to cheat and look online, I kept going everywhere on the map untill I progressed somehow.  And I did and it felt incredible.

 

Plutonia wasn’t like this, just more moving things in the map.

Edited June 8 by vanilla_d00m