DOOM: THE DARK AGES (DOOM 6)

[aboyes1989]

On 6/2/2024 at 4:51 AM, Maximum Matt said:

Or Doom: Final

 

Doom: Levels of the Master

[OniriA]

So Doomguy is going to travel back to the Middle Ages to learn more about the origin of the dark urdork lords during the following events.

 

* The Fall of the Roman Empire / Barbarian Invasions

* Justinian's Plague

* The Rise of Islam and the Abbasid Kaliphate

* Viking Invasions

* Crusades

* Mongol Invasions 

* 100 Year War

* Black Death

* Vlad The Impaler

* Fall of the Byzantine Empire

* Reconquista

 

Sounds like a good excuse to shoot stuff with black metal music in the background.

[Lila Feuer]

10 hours ago, Captain Keen said:

I preferred the art direction of 2016, and the more open gameplay. I find it endlessly replayable on both console and PC. Although Eternal added some good new aspects to the gameplay, it became too much about only have certain ways to fight certain enemies, and lost of some of the “fun” of 2016 even as it leaned into a lighter and more arcade-y tone. 

There was some nuance that did allow you to play things how you wanted to on return playthroughs, there was still enough versatility in that regard, whereas you will only ever play Eternal the one way it intends as it's not just optimal it's flat out mandatory. Just try playing without the upgrades. It results in a game that will in effect play the exact same way every single time.

[fruity lerlups]

doom eternals biggest limit is how it prevents the map designers from limiting the player, youre always going to kill things the META way because you always get to use whatever gun you want, you are never forced into a corner so the way you deal with every fight is to fly around, and because of the balance of everything you always choose the most optimal set of runes, like ALWAYS air control. I remember how refreshing classic mode felt because id be forced to deal with things in more novel manners, alas im sounding like a broken radio here. Also remember how in 2016 you could find secret weapons, like early plasma gun, early gauss gun? Secrets seemed to matter more. Idunno i just feel like, giving the player everything just means they always do the same thing they wanna do, youre never forced to get creative. Perfect example is the cyber mancubus, stun, blood punch, ssg, rinse and repeat.

[Gifty]

I'm down with having critical chats/analyses of the nu dooms but the way that the merest mention of any game made after 2004 consistently calls down the horde of folks who REALLY performatively want you to hear a bunch of bad game design takes they picked up off YouTube, is, like, really tiresome and uninteresting.

Edited June 4 by Gifty

[Man of Doom]

33 minutes ago, Gifty said:

I'm down with having critical chats/analyses of the nu dooms but the way that the merest mention of any game made after 2004 consistently calls down the horde of folks who REALLY performatively want you to hear a bunch of bad game design takes they picked up off YouTube, is, like, really tiresome and uninteresting.

All of this.

 

It's honest-to-god so frustrating loving a game that you almost never want to talk about anymore (Doom Eternal specifically), because other people cannot let someone enjoy it.

 

Mini-vent time:

 

Spoiler

Soon I'm going to be able to tell some super-conservative Doom superfan in all the worst ways imaginable that his hatred of Doom Eternal (and Bethesda-era id Software) has literally been going on longer than the fucking Confederacy existing.

 

Every single time I see Doom Eternal trend on Twitter, it feels like I just ate a sock.

And every single time I see some kind of blowup over how “nuDoom jumped the shark forever”, I now just feel tempted to do this:

 

 

Like I’m not going to pretend that Doom Eternal’s game or story is somehow perfect or anything like that (if anything, both do have their own share of legitimate issues), but come on.

 

 

Admittedly, I’ve been more of a bad mood as of late, and I apologize in advance if it seems like I’m lashing out.

Man, this thread has gone to some depressing places.

 

Until we do indeed have hard confirmation that id’s next title is indeed a Doom game, it’s probably best not to drag this all out even further.

Edited June 4 by Man of Doom

[Master O]

On 5/24/2024 at 4:16 PM, Terrcraft said:

Tom Henderson at Insider Gaming has reported that on June 9th at the Xbox Showcase. The next game in the Doom series will be revealed as Doom The Dark Ages though it was previously known as Doom Year Zero internally.

The Insider states that this game has been in development for around 4 years. and was described as a "medieval-inspired doom world."

This is an assumption from my end but this may take place between Doom 64 and 2016 when the Doomslayer worked with the night sentinels. And it will be more like Army of Darkness to Doom Eternals Evil Dead 2

here is the article describing this, the reporter is very accurate and others have been pointing to a new doom to be at the Xbox showcase.
https://insider-gaming.com/doom-the-dark-ages/

So, if Doom 6 is next in line for ID, what do you hope or expect to see?
Other than that, ID may be stuck in the doom mines for years instead of making a quake reboot to attempt to prevent Microsoft from closing them like Tango Gameworks and Arcane Austin.

 

Doom 6: The Search for More Money

["JL" was too short]

43 minutes ago, Gifty said:

I'm down with having critical chats/analyses of the nu dooms but the way that the merest mention of any game made after 2004 consistently calls down the horde of folks who REALLY performatively want you to hear a bunch of bad game design takes they picked up off YouTube, is, like, really tiresome and uninteresting.

I like how this description does nothing at all to narrow down which side of the argument you're talking about.

[Terrcraft]

put simply, when doom eternal requires resource management via constant use of the chainsaw and low ammo caps to incentivize using multiple weapons, its ass.

when slaughter maps require resource management via relying on infighting and not wasting ammo its peak.

when doom eternal has weakpoints that certain weapons and/or weapon mods are useful for so you constantly switch weapons, it "reduces creativity" because you cant W+M1+SSG the whole game.

when pistol starting a slaughter map and they don't give you a bfg its "good, and cool because you have to use different weapons"

I don't think doom eternal is that different then classic doom, just a refinement of the formula that id used till quake 2. But jfc this is a specuation thread about the next doom, not a doom eternal is bad thread, or even a doom eternal is good thread. if you want that, I recommend posting a thread there instead. Can people just talk about the topic?

[Artyoman]

Lol that's just half of this thread in a nutshell

[fishy]

as long as it's not writter by whoever did eternal and the ancient gods it's gonna be a good fun time.

[fruity lerlups]

3 hours ago, Man of Doom said:

 

It's honest-to-god so frustrating loving a game that you almost never want to talk about anymore (Doom Eternal specifically), because other people cannot let someone enjoy it.

 

Mini-vent time:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Soon I'm going to be able to tell some super-conservative Doom superfan in all the worst ways imaginable that his hatred of Doom Eternal (and Bethesda-era id Software) has literally been going on longer than the fucking Confederacy existing.

 

Every single time I see Doom Eternal trend on Twitter, it feels like I just ate a sock.

And every single time I see some kind of blowup over how “nuDoom jumped the shark forever”, I now just feel tempted to do this:

 

 

Like I’m not going to pretend that Doom Eternal’s game or story is somehow perfect or anything like that (if anything, both do have their own share of legitimate issues), but come on.

 

 

 

youre allowed to enjoy it.

3 hours ago, Gifty said:

 REALLY performatively want you to hear a bunch of bad game design takes they picked up off YouTube, is, like, really tiresome and uninteresting.

ive never once seen a youtube video essay criticizing doom eternal except people who found it too hard, i found it easy, thats my gripe with it.

 

Once again if people criticizing the game makes you sad because you enjoyed it thats a you problem. Im under no obligation to hold my tongue because my issues with the game somehow might make someone who enjoys it upset, we all enjoy different things. And to add, the reason i bring up these criticisms is because I want the next doom game to be taken in a direction I like, but seeing how many people seem to enjoy push forward combat, i fear it might go even further in that direction.

[Donowa]

i'm personally hoping that we could get a newer doom game with a lighter tone than the last few, maybe something closer to evil dead 2 and army of darkness instead of the super serious "you are john doom, the demon killing machine created by the highest god in the universe" tone of the nudoom games

[bjh13]

On 6/2/2024 at 3:11 AM, fruity lerlups said:

imagine being the kinda guy who likes the nu doom lore

 

I love the "nu doom lore" so I'm pretty excited about the next game.

[Mr. Freeze]

Man, Nu-Doom just brings out the most obnoxious part of this fanbase huh 

[Roebloz]

Won't really matter for me since my computer is hot garbage, so I won't be able to play it.

I've yet to be able to play Doom Eternal, and the only time I played Doom 2016 it felt like I was moving through slime (It was both smooth and laggy, somehow)

 

That being said, I am very curious to see what will happen.

My predictions is that it will be a prequel going into the origins of the demons and Jekkad and how it turned into hell, and the twist will be that either you are playing as the Dark Lord, or that you are regular Doomguy post-Eternal and time has just looped once the universe ended, birthing anew. (Or hell, both at once; Doomguy is the only survivor once the universe collapses, and creates it anew, becoming Davoth himself)

 

[Gifty]

7 hours ago, "JL" was too short said:

I like how this description does nothing at all to narrow down which side of the argument you're talking about.

I like and enjoy all the Doom games if that narrows it down

[Egg Boy]

1 minute ago, Gifty said:

I like and enjoy all the Doom games if that narrows it down

Facts. All Doom is great.

[Votterbin]

I think the only thing I'd really want out of Dark Ages is for it to kind of lend itself closer to the classic games. Going off the leak it's literally the midpoint between 64 and 2016, it could stand to be a little faster than the former but still feel brutal like 2016. As much as I love Eternal I don't see myself wanting to return to a gameplay loop that expects that much out of me.

[Captain Keen]

17 hours ago, Gravepicker said:

People who like classic Doom (which probably comprise most of this forums' userbase) probably like Doom 1 and 2's approach to challenge: you can kill any enemy with any weapon, most of the mechanical complexity of the game is in player movement and influencing monster behaviour (this is my non-doom god opinion, pls don't bully). Then architecture and encounter design come in and add limitations, but at the core, classic Doom games where/are pretty free-flowing. I'm guessing the poster to whom you responded wants something more akin to that than to Eternal, which to my understanding (played like 50% of 2016, haven't touched Eternal) is what Doom 2016 was.

 

Yes, exactly, you get it!

 

Can’t speak for others, but my opinion as I stated is my preferred next Doom game would be a mix of 2016 and Eternal, and/or something completely brand new (like a big focus on melee combat maybe?)

 

Eternal absolutely made some improvements too and hit some peak highs. In my opinion. Doom 2016 is 10/10 Eternal is like 7/10 for me and the Ancient Gods is 6.5/10 or something.

 

Also, we don’t know anything about this new game yet, so everything will be speculative until then. It makes sense that people would talk about the previous games while anticipating the next one, right? What they liked and didn’t like and hope to see next. The design of Eternal and reaction to it will obviously have an effect on the design of the next game. I can only assume that the actual designers for the next Doom game had these exact conversations themselves before working on it.

Edited June 5 by Captain Keen

[fishy]

i think the next game should have some sort of coop mode like left 4 dead

[Gifty]

37 minutes ago, Captain Keen said:

(like a big focus on melee combat maybe?)

This is kind of the biggest thing I'm wondering about for the new game; won't know till the reveal, but the medieval theme seems like a lead-in to more close-quarters combat which I'd be curious to see. Not sure if it'd be good or not!

[Terrcraft]

One thing I've seen no one state Is that this game probably won't have uac, mars, or earth. Really interested In how id navigates that. 

[Stealth Frag]

Hmm, is it possible that the subtitle "Dark Ages" is some kind deceptive and it is actually a reference to 1993 and the first Doom instead of the Middle Ages?

Edited June 5 by Stealth Frag

[Tony_Danza_the_boss]

I am hoping this is a Quake reboot, and not a continuation or prequel of the Slayer's story. As another poster mentioned, the tone of Eternal and to a smaller extent 2016 has become senseless to me. Being the chosen deified weapon of a literal god who created you and killing everything in your path because you're basically all powerful seems just very boring to me. Story wise, there seems to be very little in my mind that can be explored past Eternal, and I could care less about the Slayer's time with the Night Sentinels and what happened pre-2016, which was I feel was explained well enough via the data log pickups anyways in 2016 and codex entries in Eternal. The lore just seems bloated and bogged down, and I'd rather see Id show love to (arguably) most atmospheric IP they have with Quake and give us a Lovecraftian-esque style shooter with an original story. 

Edited June 5 by Tony_Danza_the_boss
Correction

[Lila Feuer]

7 minutes ago, Stealth Frag said:

Hmm, is it possible that the subtitle "Dark Ages" is some kind deceptive and it is actually a reference to 1993 and the first Doom instead of the Middle Ages?

To launch the game the player must navigate a DOS prompt screen.

[Xaser]

12 hours ago, Gifty said:

I'm down with having critical chats/analyses of the nu dooms but the way that the merest mention of any game made after 2004 consistently calls down the horde of folks who REALLY performatively want you to hear a bunch of bad game design takes they picked up off YouTube, is, like, really tiresome and uninteresting.

 

This is generally also how I feel on this -- but at the same time, the real "issue" here is that the new Doom games are, fundamentally, off-topic.

 

Lemme explain: Doomworld is fundamentally a community centered around the original games. We're all gathered here to make maps and mods, play 'em, speedrun 'em, all that good business. The amount of traffic the "Newfangled Doom" subforums get is tiny compared to the rest, and you rarely find users who think all the old games are trash, 'cause if they did, why are they even here? And even if one of those folks finds their way here anyway (which happens once in a blue moon), there's not much of a reason for them to stick around, assuming the community doesn't give them the boot in advance. :P

But when it comes to topics that aren't classic Doom? Well, all bets are off -- there's no unifying factor on Random Topic X if it doesn't happen to align with community demographics, so you get a random mix of people who love/hate Topic X as well as a ton of folks who don't give a shit at all, and thus don't post. So inevitably threads about Topic X just kinda turn into low-quality bickering between the two sides who feel strongly enough about it to even post -- and this sort of suck is just a universal constant on The Internets(tm). It's been a meme for ages that you should just perma-mute the Everything Else subforum to get the best Doomworld experience, and it's much better now than it was 10 years ago, believe it or not. :P

Doom 2016, on the other hand, is a bit of an outlier -- its gameplay is much closer to the original games than either Doom 3 or Eternal, so you're naturally going to get a lot more interest overlap, much in the same way you'll find a lot more Quake and DUSK fans here than you would in [insert random other gaming community], 'cause the genres are similar. The stars aligned for a bit with 2016, then Eternal went and did its own thing and the status quo was returned. It's really not much different than the sort of complaining you'd hear about Halo back when that was the hot modern shooter that everybody on these boards loved to hate. :P

I'm not necessarily excusing all the weird takes as much as I'm rolling my eyes and moving on, but yeah, the new Doom games just aren't what Doomworld account holders are here for.

[Gez]

19 minutes ago, Xaser said:

I'm not necessarily excusing all the weird takes as much as I'm rolling my eyes and moving on, but yeah, the new Doom games just aren't what Doomworld account holders are here for.

Yeah, pretty much. My interest in whatever Doom Year Dark: The Zero Age is nearly nonexistent, existing only as "hey this is tangentially related to that other thing and we're probably gonna see a lot of discussion about it around here and eventually on the wiki"; but I'm not expecting it to be a game I'll want to play.

[oneselfSelf]

14 hours ago, Gifty said:

I'm down with having critical chats/analyses of the nu dooms but the way that the merest mention of any game made after 2004 consistently calls down the horde of folks who REALLY performatively want you to hear a bunch of bad game design takes they picked up off YouTube, is, like, really tiresome and uninteresting.

 

I loath the term "bad game design" because it's usage nowadays does not usually have any meaningful weight to it and more often than not I've seen it be used on things that aren't "bad game design" but rather the person just didn't get the rules of the game and blamed it for being bad rather than acknowledging their own faults.

With Eternal I think literally most people just don't want to admit that they don't vibe with the game or just that they weren't suited for the type of gameplay Eternal has, so they up the ante just blame the game instead and act like they have vast knowledge of the DOs and DONTs in game development. They just make an ass of themselves in the process and never learn.

[Zerofuchs]

I... enjoyed Eternal but it's also the least fun of the mainline DOOMs for me. 2016 I've replayed a few times, Eternal I've never felt the urge after beating the campaign once. Hell never even bothered getting into the DLC, finished TAG but never got TAG2.

 

It's been a few years since I have played so my exact complaints are a little fuzzy in memory, but largely it comes down to stratification of combat into a rock/paper/scissors kind of thing with weaponry, and a bit too much emphasis on linear gameplay. It feels... like it's on rails?

 

As for the Dark Ages.... I'll wait and see, but after seeing so many long running IPs go belly up or full cash cow thanks to companies like EA or Actiblizzard... I'm actually inclined to think they should quit while they're ahead.