Help save EDGE!!

[Lobo]

This is a message posted by DarkKnight the only member of the EDGE team still active in the development of this source port:

27th April 2003 – Darkknight
This is something of a reality check than a progress update: The project has grind to a halt since I've been heavily involved in my work project. The plus side of this is that the experience gained will be of use in any further development of EDGE, however I have to start looking at whether I will ever be able to give the time required to finish the job. Expect a decision next time I get chance to breathe!

What this means is the possible DEATH of EDGE! If anyone out there has knowledge of C and a bit of free time then I urge you to get in contact with DarkKnight and give him a hand with the development.

[Graf Zahl]

Lobo said:

This is a message posted by DarkKnight the only member of the EDGE team still active in the development of this source port:

27th April 2003 – Darkknight
This is something of a reality check than a progress update: The project has grind to a halt since I've been heavily involved in my work project. The plus side of this is that the experience gained will be of use in any further development of EDGE, however I have to start looking at whether I will ever be able to give the time required to finish the job. Expect a decision next time I get chance to breathe!

What this means is the possible DEATH of EDGE! If anyone out there has knowledge of C and a bit of free time then I urge you to get in contact with DarkKnight and give him a hand with the development.

So what? I cannot say that this particular source port had any real impact on the community. I haven't used it even once - simply because there are almost no levels out there that use EDGE.

[Scuba Steve]

I have to agree. The only reason I have edge installed, is so I could play Immoral Conduct a few times.

[sirjuddington]

Well maybe if someone helped make EDGE better (ie faster, non-ugly), people would make maps for it? (hint hint) :P

[Lobo]

Graf Zahl said:

So what? I cannot say that this particular source port had any real impact on the community. I haven't used it even once - simply because there are almost no levels out there that use EDGE.

Yeah you're right. I couldn't find anything either... oh wait what's this?
BugHunt
Covert Ops
Dum II
EB Doom
Espi's Site
G.I. Joe
GoldenEye TC
Immoral Conduct
Jxt's Lost Lexicon
Lizard Commando
Lock N Load
Marines Of UAC
PlanetFall
QDoom
Relapse
Resident Evil: Unleashed
Wild Weasel

My god! It's a list of Edge-specific wads!!! Maybe I should have actually looked around before I said anything...

[Graf Zahl]

Lobo said:

Yeah you're right. I couldn't find anything either... oh wait what's this?
BugHunt
Covert Ops
Dum II
EB Doom
Espi's Site
G.I. Joe
GoldenEye TC
Immoral Conduct
Jxt's Lost Lexicon
Lizard Commando
Lock N Load
Marines Of UAC
PlanetFall
QDoom
Relapse
Resident Evil: Unleashed
Wild Weasel

My god! It's a list of Edge-specific wads!!! Maybe I should have actually looked around before I said anything...

That's all? No wonder this port is DOA. The only one I know of those is QDoom and I didn't like it at all.

[frwl]

hm, ya, outside of GE, I got no point for EDGE.

[Torn]

Bye edge, R.I.P.

[CacodemonLeader]

My MOD, Cacodemon Squad uses EDGE as well. There's plenty of stuff that I'm planning on taking advantage of should there be another version released. Heck, my MOD has gotten a lot better since the pathetic three level Public Demo I released back when EDGE 1.24.

In other words, EDGE should not be left to be put to death. EDGE was the only ever port that allows the addition of an infinite amount of stuff, like levels, things, weapons, etc. DDF format has been and always will be the most easiest format to use for creating MODs, TCs, and PCs which have a lot of enemies.

[Graf Zahl]

CacodemonLeader said:

DDF format has been and always will be the most easiest format to use for creating MODs, TCs, and PCs which have a lot of enemies.

Ouch!

DDF has an awful syntax and looks just plain ugly. EDGE may be one of the most flexible engines but its data formats are certainly NOT the best.


But I repeat myself: Why bother? There is a small number of projects for EDGE but since apparently nobody uses this engine - who are they made for?


R.I.P.

[CacodemonLeader]

Graf Zahl said:

Ouch!

DDF has an awful syntax and looks just plain ugly. EDGE may be one of the most flexible engines but its data formats are certainly NOT the best.


But I repeat myself: Why bother? There is a small number of projects for EDGE but since apparently nobody uses this engine - who are they made for?


R.I.P.

You think that, because you never even bothered using it yourself. You think it would be cluttered, but all the stuff that can be done on EDGE and very easily outweighs the CONs of it. Next time, try and learn how to use DDF effectively before jumping to conclusions.

Also, If you think DDF is so horrible, then by all means be free to ask other port designers to make their ports more flexible like EDGE, even if it doesn't use DDF format, instead of DEH and BEX formats, which in my opinion don't come close to DDF flexibility.

[Graf Zahl]

CacodemonLeader said:

You think that, because you never even bothered using it yourself. You think it would be cluttered, but all the stuff that can be done on EDGE and very easily outweighs the CONs of it. Next time, try and learn how to use DDF effectively before jumping to conclusions.

Also, If you think DDF is so horrible, then by all means be free to ask other port designers to make their ports more flexible like EDGE, even if it doesn't use DDF format, instead of DEH and BEX formats, which in my opinion don't come close to DDF flexibility.

Just because DDF is the ONLY format for its purpose doesn't make it a good one. I could do it better but unfortunately I don't have the time to do this. Besides, the only port I'd do this for is ZDoom and that is basically a one-man project.

You all might have guessed by now that I don't like EDGE. And you are right! That thing doesn't run well on my system (in fact it's one of the slowest source ports I ever tested) and many of the more sophisticated maps for Vanilla Doom have severe problems (especially those with invisible sector hacks) It doesn't run most of my favorite maps decently and there is basically no mapping going on for it. Almost all releases are weapon mods or something similar. Strange that there are so many great maps for all the other ports which don't share EDGE's 'flexibility'. I wonder why...

[Grimm]

EDGE has one of the COOLEST features I hath ever heard of, and it's a damn shame it's gone to waste. It may not have some o' the advanced features ZDoom or Boom have, but adding new enemies, things, weapons, etc.--that's awsome! EDGE solved a problem of the Doom engine that sohuld have been dealt with long, long ago--thing limits. With all the advanced features ZDoom, I'd still have to go through shit to add some new thing in--and even then, I'd have to take something else out. With only about 10 or so unused frames, last time I checked, at least, there's not much you can do. EDGE may be outdated, but it still has unique properties. If at least ZDoom or some other port got its new thing features, I'd have no problem letting it go. But they don't, and while the other source ports are doing whatever, you can at least make this one better until the others smarten up.

[Graf Zahl]

RTDscout said:

EDGE has one of the COOLEST features I hath ever heard of, and it's a damn shame it's gone to waste. It may not have some o' the advanced features ZDoom or Boom have, but adding new enemies, things, weapons, etc.--that's awsome! EDGE solved a problem of the Doom engine that sohuld have been dealt with long, long ago--thing limits. With all the advanced features ZDoom, I'd still have to go through shit to add some new thing in--and even then, I'd have to take something else out. With only about 10 or so unused frames, last time I checked, at least, there's not much you can do. EDGE may be outdated, but it still has unique properties. If at least ZDoom or some other port got its new thing features, I'd have no problem letting it go. But they don't, and while the other source ports are doing whatever, you can at least make this one better until the others smarten up.

If it had ever been used to a good effect EDGE would not be dying. All the coolest stuff doesn't help if it isn't used. You might check out Vavoom which is even more versatile than EDGE when it comes to customizability. But again, apparently nobody is using it.

[CacodemonLeader]

Graf Zahl said:

If it had ever been used to a good effect EDGE would not be dying. All the coolest stuff doesn't help if it isn't used. You might check out Vavoom which is even more versatile than EDGE when it comes to customizability. But again, apparently nobody is using it.

Yeah right. I'm no C++ coding kind of person for that, and I can't be bothered trying to compile it either. Vavoom is unstable, I might add. It also has awful hosts on top of that. I tried running Vavoom, but it did not do much good in the long run, and I would say it did not work one damn bit.

[Kinsie]

I say we try and get ZDOOM and EDGE to merge. Who's with me?

[Graf Zahl]

Trasher][ said:
I say we try and get ZDOOM and EDGE to merge. Who's with me?

I'd be with you in a minute - if it were possible. Unfortunately these two engines are as different as imaginable so I don't think it is possible. If Randy just added a few features to add more stuff than is possible now...

[Kinsie]

Never said it was realistic. But seriously, if there was a DDF-style language in ZDOOM, I'd be all over that bad boy like a 17-year-old female groupie over a fat, retiring rock star.

[Graf Zahl]

Trasher][ said:
Never said it was realistic. But seriously, if there was a DDF-style language in ZDOOM, I'd be all over that bad boy like a 17-year-old female groupie over a fat, retiring rock star.

You are not alone... ;-)

[Nanami]

Bye EDGE, I hardly knew ye.

[Draconio]

Trasher][ said:
Never said it was realistic. But seriously, if there was a DDF-style language in ZDOOM, I'd be all over that bad boy like a 17-year-old female groupie over a fat, retiring rock star.

Back when I used to float around the ZDoom forums, there was frequent mention of "Doomscript" which was supposed to add that sort of customizability. Still hasn't appeared yet though, and as I haven't been to those forums in a long while, I don't know if it's still being planned or if the idea was dropped.

[timmie]

I think it's still planned, it's just been put off for awhile (probably for the ZDoom 3.0 or something).

[myk]

If you like EDGE, just use it, or make things for it... why does it have to be in development to be "alive"? Why do you have to depend on the engine developers to keep it alive? What's more, the more you use it, the more they might feel inclined to update it.

Personally, I prefer to make WADs for a non-developing engine. Otherwise you have to be checking to see if it's still compatible with what you've done, or you're otherwise always dependent on future features, waiting for them or demanding them to be finished. A "dead" engine gives a stable base to work on.

I also think that all engines are OK, as long as they function well enough, as few added features aren't so much of a big deal anyway. Not that I use source mods much myself, but I'll make sure my WAD in progress eventually runs with all the main engines (if I offer BEX patches for prboom I'll also include DDF for EDGE, and so on.)

[toxicfluff]

Vavoom has that gorgeous (for Doom) lightmap feature doesn't it? I was really impressed with that, I must say. Shame that it sucked in fundamental ways, like the enemies' feet getting clipped away by the floor.

[sirjuddington]

ToXiCFLUFF said:

Shame that it sucked in fundamental ways, like the enemies' feet getting clipped away by the floor.

Thats fundamental?? It's not as if that makes it unplayable or anything.

[Nanami]

Also doesn't seem like it should be hard to fix either.

[Lobo]

myk said:

...why does it have to be in development to be "alive"? Why do you have to depend on the engine developers to keep it alive?

The thing is that other source ports are usually "complete", and the development which is done on them is to add new features and so on, which I feel isn't the case with Edge because it's not "complete".
Edge still does not run very smoothly nor does it have basic TCP/IP implemented yet. These two factors are, for me, fundamental in a source ports "completeness".
I think that Edge just needs maybe one more release to at least optimize the code a bit(it runs kinda slow). Then it would be the perfect port IMHO. If development stops after that then I don't mind (I can live without multiplayer) :)

What's more, the more you use it, the more they might feel inclined to update it.

I use it! I use it! I made a launcher for it and my TC is Edge specific...

[NiGHTMARE]

Lobo said:

List of wads

Uh, sorry but even Legacy has more wads than that.

Draconio said:

Back when I used to float around the ZDoom forums, there was frequent mention of "Doomscript" which was supposed to add that sort of customizability. Still hasn't appeared yet though, and as I haven't been to those forums in a long while, I don't know if it's still being planned or if the idea was dropped.

Step 1 in the development of Doomscript is already with us: the DECORATE lump, which lets you add a virtually infinite number of new decorations.

[DooMBoy]

ToXiCFLUFF said:

Vavoom has that gorgeous (for Doom) lightmap feature doesn't it? I was really impressed with that, I must say. Shame that it sucked in fundamental ways, like the enemies' feet getting clipped away by the floor.

Vavoom also has that ass-ugly skybox 'feature'. I've always thought the skyboxes should've of looked like something out of ZDoom, but the sky is literally a box, it just doesn't look right at all. There should at least be an option to change between Vavoom style skies and normal skies.

[Graf Zahl]

DooMBoy said:

Vavoom also has that ass-ugly skybox 'feature'. I've always thought the skyboxes should've of looked like something out of ZDoom, but the sky is literally a box, it just doesn't look right at all. There should at least be an option to change between Vavoom style skies and normal skies.

Right, and it doesn't even do it right. Just slapping the normal sky at the ceiling of the sky box is totally unprofessional and practically rules Vavoom out as an acceptable source port. I wouldn't mind Quake2 style sky boxes if they were optional or at least done correctly.

The static-light feature of Vavoom is nice in theory but this only works in an acceptable fashion with levels that are specificly designed for it. With existing levels it doesn't look good at all, mostly because the light radius of most objects is way too large. So far this is no competition with JDoom on the visual side.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see what mappers are going to do with Vavoom. My personal guess is that we might see a handful of projects but not much. It isn't even Boom compatible so although it uses a subset of ZDoom's linedef types even most of the simpler ZDoom levels won't work because they use Boom stuff all the time.