Unmet Hell Revealed challenges?

[w M w]

I've been playing hell revealed a lot since I found it a few days ago. It has some of the best gameplay I've come across and the creators totally know their medium so I can see why it's become a cult classic. Is there a record of the fastest times for each level, or levels unbeaten with a pistol start (or some other realistic possible record breaking ;P)? I almost beat map 11 with a pistol start which probably doesn't win me any spectacular golden trophies.

[Grazza]

Yes, there are pages with the HR records. It's a very popular wad with speedrunners.

compet-n records

compet-n demos via ftp

DSDA HR page (includes TAS demos)

DSDA demos via ftp

[w M w]

Sweet... finally my life has a purpose.

*goes to compete and instantly gets telefraged back as a pile of imp intestines*

[Torn]

Before you gonna try it with a buddy in coop (if you do), remember that the levels then have alot of extra arch-viles and cyberdemons. It is a hell in coop. :)

[w M w]

I didn't know there were more enemies in cooperative play, probably because I've never played that. I've always played single player so far. I suppose you could play single player with the coop enemy numbers for a difficulity level between ultra violence and nightmare (if that's possible).

Okay I just tried recording a demo (in legacy) for the first time (trying to beat hell revealed map11 on ultraviolence with pistol start) However, it certainly takes multiple tries to beat the level and the recording demo just records every preceding failed try. I wonder if there's a way to slice off all the failed tries in the demo after (if) you finally succeed? Or a way to tell it to just keep recording over every failed try? Otherwise you have to quit and restart the game and demo every time which could be a pain.

[Grazza]

w M w said:

Otherwise you have to quit and restart the game and demo every time which could be a pain.

Yes, that's what you have to do, and it's not really a pain.

Note that a few things in HR don't work correctly under Legacy. For instance, map19 will be totally screwed up (a voodoo doll is meant to collect a whole load of goodies for you at the start, but Legacy doesn't support voodoo dolls), and a notable facet of map26 (ghosts) won't appear either.

[w M w]

Thanks for the legacy warning. Erg, so far I've gotten to the very last minute of the level then died (one room away from the finishing switch). I figure if I finished it would have been about 18 minutes. Not only do I have to shave a good 3 minutes off the time but I have to finish the damn thing! Grrrr... Well if anyone wants to see this 18:00 failure demo, I'll email it to you...

(edit: oh man, that bastard Radek got MAX KILLS and 100 percent secret in ADDITION to beating it in 15:23.... jesus christ...)

*edits again* that means he had to kill that first cyberdemon PLUS that 3rd cyberdemon and ALL those demons and hell knights in the bfg room, whom I just left alive??!!

[Torn]

w M w said:

*edits again* that means he had to kill that first cyberdemon PLUS that 3rd cyberdemon and ALL those demons and hell knights in the bfg room, whom I just left alive??!!

What are you trying anyway?. Speedrun?.

[w M w]

Yeah, I was just trying a "speedrun" (finishing as fast as possible on ultraviolence) but I didn't know that other guy did a max run which would be impossible for me to beat. I'd like to view his demo, but legacy sure sucks at playing them (the player starts randomly shooting at walls every time and just dies)... I guess I'll have to try them in zdoom.

[Torn]

w M w said:

Yeah, I was just trying a "speedrun" (finishing as fast as possible on ultraviolence) but I didn't know that other guy did a max run which would be impossible for me to beat. I'd like to view his demo, but legacy sure sucks at playing them (the player starts randomly shooting at walls every time and just dies)... I guess I'll have to try them in zdoom.

No no no... Use doom2.exe or prboom. Most other ports fucks up doom2.exe demos. You are trying to beating it for fun?.

[Grazza]

HR map11 UV Speed is certainly an "ambitious" place to start your demo recording efforts. If you can get through to the exit in 18 minutes, regardless of what is left alive, then I'd say that's damned good.

My first attempts to record demos were on STRAIN map17. I knew the map very well and had practised a lot. I managed a "fantastic" run where everything went "perfectly" ... but it was 5 whole minutes slower than Peo's demo.

So don't be disheartened by the fact that one of the best players in the world can do it a few minutes faster than you and get max kills and secrets. This isn't a map where you can just ignore all the monsters and run past them - as shown by the fact that no one at compet-n has done a UV Speed run. Of course, it would be possible to do a UV Speed run that is faster than Radek's max demo, but I suspect the feeling is that a slow UV Speed where you need to kill almost everything is a pretty ugly thing.

Regarding demos and compatibility, note that in general demos will only play back with the same program that was used to record them. However, the creators of some ports have made a particular effort to provide good compatibility with Doom2.exe demos. As Torn mentions, PrBoom is the best port in that respect, while Eternity also plays back many Doom2.exe demos OK.

[Vile]

I tried briefly a while back because Altima was trying to get the speed table finished. There was an exit on map11 in about 8 minutes, and one for map22 in about 5 minutes. I didn't keep either of them though, as you say, they looked quite ugly. :)

It's the simple fact that some maps were not meant to be played in a speedy fashion and I'm not saddened that those holes are left unfilled. The max tables do the level justice just fine.

[Grazza]

Vile said:

There was an exit on map11 in about 8 minutes, and one for map22 in about 5 minutes. I didn't keep either of them though, as you say, they looked quite ugly. :)

I'd certainly be very interested in watching such demos.

Still, on some of these maps TAS is probably the best way to make speed runs that are good to watch.

[Torn]

Grazza said:

Regarding demos and compatibility, note that in general demos will only play back with the same program that was used to record them. However, the creators of some ports have made a particular effort to provide good compatibility with Doom2.exe demos. As Torn mentions, PrBoom is the best in that respect, while Eternity also plays back many Doom2.exe demos OK.

Well, I find the original exe best for watch demos. :)
My c-n demo was av10-512 (sucky!).

[w M w]

Holy crap, level 13 in hell revealed is a lot harder than 11. I can't even get half way through yet after many tries.

I will annoy you with another question now. I want to watch these "compet'n" demos (for hell revealed)... so I downloaded "prboom" from this site like you recommended. I'm not exactly, er, a "hacker" let alone adept at making simple things like this stupid program work..

I click on the "prboom application" and it says: "identify version: iwad not found"... So I assume it wants the original doom2 application and so copy and put that in there and it still says the same thing. I'm too stupid to use stuff like this, I need very simple user friendly clicking like in legacy's "launcher" (even that was hard to figure out). I just want to play the compet'n demo's for now so how do I do that?

(I was wondering why there was no speedrun entry of level 11... that 8 min one must be insane to watch. those guys must be robots.)

[Grazza]

The start of map13 is certainly a challenge. :) Once you've survived that, it calms down somewhat - or at least you have more room to manoeuvre. The blue key trap is deadly, but there is a trick that makes it much more easily survivable.

Your questions aren't annoying at all. These things aren't obvious to start with, and it's great to see new people getting into watching and recording demos.

OK, so you've unzipped the files from prboom-2.2.3-win32.zip into your Doom2 folder? You'll notice there are two exe files: glboom and prboom. These are essentially the same program, but glboom has an OpenGL renderer, while prboom has a software renderer. I'd recommend glboom if you have a good enough video card - I also find it more stable myself.

The simplest way to run the program is from the command prompt (i.e. Start - Run in Windows 95 and above).
To play Doom2:
c:\doom2\glboom.exe -iwad c:\doom2\doom2.wad

To play Hell Revealed:
c:\doom2\glboom.exe -iwad c:\doom2\doom2.wad -file c:\doom2\hr.wad c:\doom2\hrmus.wad

To watch a demo called pn22-123 on Hell Revealed:
c:\doom2\glboom.exe -iwad c:\doom2\doom2.wad -file c:\doom2\hr.wad c:\doom2\hrmus.wad -playdemo c:\doom2\pn22-123.lmp

To record a demo temporarily called hr13-xxx.lmp on UV skill on map13 of Hell Revealed:
c:\doom2\glboom.exe -iwad c:\doom2\doom2.wad -file c:\doom2\hr.wad c:\doom2\hrmus.wad -warp 13 -skill 4 -record c:\doom2\hr13-xxx.lmp

To record a demo temporarily called hf25-xxx.lmp on UV skill with fast monsters on map25 of Hell Revealed:
c:\doom2\glboom.exe -iwad c:\doom2\doom2.wad -file c:\doom2\hr.wad c:\doom2\hrmus.wad -fast -warp 25 -skill 4 -record c:\doom2\hf25-xxx.lmp

To record a demo temporarily called hn24-xxx.lmp on Nightmare skill on map24 of Hell Revealed that will play back correctly with Doom2.exe:
c:\doom2\glboom.exe -complevel 1 -iwad c:\doom2\doom2.wad -file c:\doom2\hr.wad c:\doom2\hrmus.wad -warp 24 -skill 5 -record c:\doom2\hn24-xxx.lmp

Try copying and pasting these sample command lines and see what happens. If you want to watch pn22-123.lmp it is in this zip.

Almost forgot: to set the resolution, put in, e.g.:
c:\doom2\glboom.exe -iwad c:\doom2\doom2.wad -width 800 -height 600
It will then play at 800x600 resolution until you change it to something else. There is no need to re-enter the resolution each time.

[w M w]

Wow, that takes some work typing in all that stuff (until you save it in notepad for easy copy pasting I guess)... It took me awhile to find the "command prompt" but then saw it in "start- run" like you said (I thought you meant start/run the game, not click on start-run, heh heh). I've never even used that "run" feature before :) I appreciate the help.

This is what I eventually had to type since I had the stuff in different folders than you guessed:

c:\prboom\glboom.exe -iwad c:\doom2\doom2.wad -width 800 -height 600 c:\prboom\glboom.exe -iwad c:\doom2\doom2.wad -file c:\legacy\legacy_140_win32\hr.wad c:\legacy\legacy_140_win32\hrmus.wad -playdemo c:\legacy\legacy_140_win32\hr12-635.lmp

It seems to work ok (not go out of sync like legacy) but it is only playing at 2 frames per second (I think when I changed the resolution to 800 by 600 it went only at 1 frame per second). I have no idea how to fix this... well it should be playing in windows by using "run"- not dos right? because I have windows xp, so that's why I had to use a port like legacy (if I use dos, the sound doesn't work).

[Grazza]

It should indeed be playing in Windows; it is a Windows port.

The poor framerate suggests that your video card isn't handling the task very well. Try replacing "glboom" with "prboom" and see what happens.

What is your processor speed and video card, by the way? I would have thought that any off-the-shelf XP system should be OK with glboom. Oh, and when you run Legacy, are you using software or OpenGL mode?

[w M w]

all well, screw it. replacing glboom with prboom actually made it go slower, heh heh. maybe I could try it in dos with no sound. I actually don't even know how to get to dos from windows, or what to type when I get there.

I accidently found an "easter egg" in the first level of hell revealed (you probably know about it anyway). Go in the portal at the start about 4 times and you go to a new room which credits the creators and wishes you a good time.
Also, I finally got to that blue trap in hell revealed 13 and indeed got mutilated. I'm guessing that trick has something to do with barely touching one of the two linedefs which are really close together.... or maybe staying under that door for 30 seconds so it will re open before you get stuck in there, I have to figure it out more.

Another annoyance is that legacy is unable to play "the black tower", one of the best levels that I remember off of the retail "master levels" for doom2. Maybe zdoom would work. I hope it plays tnt and plutonia, those levels are sweet.

[Grazza]

w M w said:

all well, screw it. replacing glboom with prboom actually made it go slower, heh heh.

Sounds like your computer just doesn't like the prboom program at all. Weird. You could try Eternity, though its demo compatibility isn't quite so good.

maybe I could try it in dos with no sound. I actually don't even know how to get to dos from windows, or what to type when I get there.

Start - Programs - Accessories - Command Prompt (silly place to put it - might vary depending on exactly which version of XP you're using; I'm not sure). There's also some relevant stuff here.

Also, I finally got to that blue trap in hell revealed 13 and indeed got mutilated. I'm guessing that trick has something to do with barely touching one of the two linedefs which are really close together.... or maybe staying under that door for 30 seconds so it will re open before you get stuck in there, I have to figure it out more.

Yes, exactly how you handle it depends on what you're trying to do - you'll see different approaches in the various demos. In a Max demo, you need to kill all the monsters, so you do need to trigger it one way or another. IIRC, in UV Fast Max demos, they trigger the 30-second door, and then trigger the monster release just as the door is reopening. BTW, it is quite possible to survive the trap on UV if you just blunder in and trigger everything at once, but chances are you'll take heavy damage.

[toxicfluff]

w M w said:

Another annoyance is that legacy is unable to play "the black tower", one of the best levels that I remember off of the retail "master levels" for doom2.

Oh yeah, the black tower was one of my favourite wads of all time. Really liked that map (it is the one with loads of health packs placed over eachother near the start right?).

[w M w]

I forget about the smaller details in that level since it was long ago, but I remember there was... a black tower... and circular rising stairs I believe and a cyberdemon near the top if I remember right. I quite liked it. I'll try a dos demo grazza, thanks.

[Grazza]

Talking of blacktwr.wad, there is an extraordinary demo for that map here. It only plays back with Doom2.exe, since it is based on a Doom2.exe bug.