MP add-on

[dsm]

I believe an iD person once said a little a-something about a possible mp add on pack for Doom 3.

So, since this forum has turned pretty dead for the time being, I decided to make a thread about it.

Any wishes for the mp pack? Anyone who cares?

I don't care much about game modes, but what I would like would be additional player models and skins - namely a few updated game characters from previous iD games. I mean, it could be cool if somebody made a legal mod with a Generations concept for Doom 3 and afaik, it's only legal to use the iD characters if they're in the same game (yeah I know, I'm obsessed with the idea of a Generations-type game in Doom 3).

Of course some additional gameplay elements such as new powerups is a must for an mp add-on.

[tsareppsun]

I'd like to see a "Hell on Earth" add-on, A little more specific and more indept to the storyline of D2.

And also I'd to see "All" of the "Original" doom demon cast return on the D3 engine with the entire 1st Doom episodes and levels.

[Shaviro]

tsareppsun said:

I'd like to see a "Hell on Earth" add-on, A little more specific and more indept to the storyline of D2.

Indeed!

And also I'd to see "All" of the "Original" doom demon cast return on the D3 engine with the entire 1st Doom episodes and levels.

I don't.

[dsm]

tsareppsun said:

I'd like to see a "Hell on Earth" add-on, A little more specific and more indept to the storyline of D2.

Heh, I agree with that wholeheartedly, but my enquiry (inquiry?) was about the multiplayer add-on that iD mentioned might be done for Doom 3 (alongside a single player add-on which I hope is a "Hell on Earth" retelling).

[chilvence]

I want them to realease a roleplaying addon with levels and magic/psionics/both


*ducks*

[BlueSonnet]

tsareppsun said:

I'd like to see a "Hell on Earth" add-on, A little more specific and more indept to the storyline of D2.

If there is to be a doom2 type of mission pack i'd like the level design to be just as good as the ones in doom3 and not be a "chuck loads of monsters at him" type of game.

As for an mp addon, more players plus more maps is the only thing i'm concerned about. Dunno if ctf would suit doom3, though it might be pretty cool to have a dark creepy maze between each others bases .

[dsm]

TSTuke said:

If there is to be a doom2 type of mission pack i'd like the level design to be just as good as the ones in doom3 and not be a "chuck loads of monsters at him" type of game.

Quite - I also have high hopes about this. Ever tried Q2: The Reckoning? That mission pack had even better level design than Quake 2 itself, so I think it's just a matter of finding the right people to develop the add-on.
Naw, I wouldn't want it to be another "Doom 2" with surreal maps either. The maps in the add-on should not stand in the shadow of the Doom 3 maps - however, they should be different in design I think. They should provide a somewhat different (but of course totally awesome) experience than the Doom 3 ones and exploit the engine in new ways.

The mp add-on should have some mp maps that give a certain sense of location - that also goes for the Doom 3 MP maps themselves btw. No more ugly Q3A-style maps, but it'd be nice if the mp add-on has varying themes thrown into it - possibly locations from previous iD games (WW2 castle like locations, gothic Quake 1 locations and Strogg Quake 2 locations apart from the obvious D3 setting) - that, I think, would rock because it'd allow even more freedom for the modders (somewhat avoiding legal problems that could arise).

[Coopersville]

Female player models.

[chilvence]

I dont understand how a Generations style mod would work, id games have always typically been fast paced fragfests, but doom 3 multiplayer is slated to be slower and more thoughtful... the Doom3 class would get rained on by the zipping 150 mile an hour other classes.

Unless the Doom3 class didnt exist at all. Then it could work fine :)

[BlueSonnet]

Coopersville said:

Female player models.

i'm not saying no but with doom3 the invisible box doesn't exist anymore and that you'll have to hit the actualy model to kill them (ie bullets can go between their legs. It's worth keeping in mind with smaller or bigger models

[Tetzlaff]

dsm said:

I believe an iD person once said a little a-something about a possible mp add on pack for Doom 3.

I think that was before they planned to include multiplayer right from the start, out of the box?

Anyways, what I think could be cool especially for the Doom3 MP, is some sort of tactical, round based game mode. The slower pace, the per-poly hit detection and all the tactical possibilities that come with the new lighting engine would suit such a game style pretty well.
Something like assaulting / defending a base in turns.

[dsm]

chilvence said:

I dont understand how a Generations style mod would work, id games have always typically been fast paced fragfests, but doom 3 multiplayer is slated to be slower and more thoughtful... the Doom3 class would get rained on by the zipping 150 mile an hour other classes.

Unless the Doom3 class didnt exist at all. Then it could work fine :)

Well, it doesn't have to be a multiplayer mod. The idea I have in mind is something sp-based with the Doom 3 monsters as the enemies, but fighting them off as five different iD game characters (including the weaponry that goes with each character).

I don't think this will be (legally) possible unless the mod is based off of a game where the characters in question are already included.

I think that was before they planned to include multiplayer right from the start, out of the box?

iD always planned to have mp support for Doom 3 out of the box - but the interview I was referring to is a little older than three months iirc. Maybe five months.

[chilvence]

Well, you did specifically make the thread about MP addons. Anyway, an MP addon should have outdoor Mars maps with vehicles and green trees.

[dsm]

chilvence said:

Well, you did specifically make the thread about MP addons. Anyway, an MP addon should have outdoor Mars maps with vehicles and green trees.

Yes, but an MP add-on would be the only thing where other iD character player models would make sense :-)

Anyway, my own wishes weren't the focus of this thread (just threw them in for good measure).

[Wobbo]

Cooperative specific add on with AI for those who cant get friends to play is a good idea

[dsm]

Wobbo said:

Cooperative specific add on with AI for those who cant get friends to play is a good idea

Hell yeah, having an add-on with a coop campaign along with some dm maps would rock.
Sadly, I don't think it'll happen - I just read an article over at planetdoom.
I'm not sure if I agree 100 per cent with this guy, but he does have some valid points I think that are worth considering.

[Yo-Han]

"(WW2 castle like locations, gothic Quake 1 locations and Strogg Quake 2 locations apart from the obvious D3 setting)"


Great idea ...it means a lot of work making new textures for like the castle part and stuff..but a castle location suits a scary atmosphere very well...

[dsm]

Yo-Han said:

"(WW2 castle like locations, gothic Quake 1 locations and Strogg Quake 2 locations apart from the obvious D3 setting)"


Great idea ...it means a lot of work making new textures for like the castle part and stuff..but a castle location suits a scary atmosphere very well...

One thing's for sure though - if such a mod would ever be done, it'd most likely be without the character models (and that probably won't be the same anyway), because the characters are copyrighted.

It's not impossible to do, but it'll have to be done in such a way that you never see the player characters (the character models may not be used) and their names mustn't be mentioned either because that's illegal. The weapons, however, aren't copyright protected - I'd still say the safest thing to do about the weapons is to do the models from scratch and not directly "port" them over from their original games and then modify them.

Oh? Castle setting? Oh yes, sorry, I lost myself :-)
Yes the mod will indeed require a load of work, but good mods seem to often be those that have been through a major workover.

Bad dsm, now you've brought the thread off topic, tsk, tsk :-)

[MatrixmaN]

I think the DooM Multi should let you be the demons....or the marines....like AvP.

[EllipsusD]

MatrixmaN said:
I think the DooM Multi should let you be the demons....or the marines....like AvP.

I doubt that iD would release anything like that, but it's definately something that would be awesome as a mod.

[Yo-Han]

Playing as a zombie would indeed be fine..for now it'll be just green yellow red an blue doomguy..seeing some zombies walkin around as players in DM could be fun..or when hardware gets faster a 4 vs 4 match ,zombies against marines :)

[Tetzlaff]

dsm said:

It's not impossible do, but it'll have to be done in such a way that you never see the player characters (the character models may not be used) and their names mustn't be mentioned either because that's illegal. The weapons, however, aren't copyright protected ...

Are you sure? As far as I remember you can model your own character models on whatever you want, you just may not directly copy the Quake2 marine or Blaskovic. But you could have for example a character dressed in WW2 and having the face resembling Blaskovic from RtCW, but calling him Jack Slivovitz or something...Or a bald headed muscular guy wearing futuristic military armour.

[dsm]

Tetzlaff said:

Are you sure? As far as I remember you can model your own character models on whatever you want, you just may not directly copy the Quake2 marine or Blaskovic. But you could have for example a character dressed in WW2 and having the face resembling Blaskovic from RtCW, but calling him Jack Slivovitz or something...Or a bald headed muscular guy wearing futuristic military armour.

You may not make a model that looks too similar to the character - having a guy in a WW2 uniform and giving him a face similar to the RtCW version of BJ sounds to me like it will resemble the character too closely.
I know that in Gen arena, they did a Blazcowicz character based on the Sarge model but gave him a green camouflage uniform - I assume that this worked out because the uniform wasn't a historically correct WW2 US soldier uniform and because his face was different enough.

But you're right - you could make models that are remotely similar, but considerably different nonetheless. Personally, I just don't like the thought of that though, I'd kinda prefer the models not to be shown than to have models that look as vastly different as this - but that's a matter of personal views and principles I guess.

[edit]For specifics, I made a thread on Wirehead Studio's Generations forum, asking about why Generations specifically was legal and a shut-down mod like "Reborn" wouldn't be. Check this quote of one of the responses:

In the case of Reborn, recreating characters is a no-go. The characters (including their likenesses) are copyrighted pretty stiffly. To use the "Dune" universe as an example, you could put a sandworm in a mod, but putting House Harkonen soldiers in your game would be troublesome.

It's all in what company owns the copyrights you wish to build a base from, and what they allow. With id, character likenesses are a significant line, and we've avoided that through the characters' presence in Q3 before we even started.

Make your own judgements.
[/edit]

[Tetzlaff]

Yes, Quake3 was a perfect base for the Generations Arena mod, since most of the past id game characers were already included. But changing Sarge to a pseudo-Wolfenstein Seargeant Blaze character was a bad idea IMO, since Sarge is the "Quake3 guy" after all.

Personally I like the idea of making a Generations style game with characters that somehow resemble the original characters, but still look different and new. It really isn´t that hard, Blaskovic for example really is just a red haired american soldier in a grey WW2 uniform, I doubt you can come in copyright troubles with creating such a character. It´s a bit harder with the Doom marine though, but since he´s already there in Doom3...
I imagine a "new invented" Quake1 guy character would be quite interesting. He could wear Starship Trooper (the movie) -like helmet and armour, but with a mor low-tech look and even some slightly gothic looking accessoires.

[dsm]

Tetzlaff said:

I imagine a "new invented" Quake1 guy character would be quite interesting. He could wear Starship Trooper (the movie) -like helmet and armour, but with a mor low-tech look and even some slightly gothic looking accessoires.

Heh, funny thing you should mention that now - I'm in the process of doing a "Quake 1 guy" drawing - I'm adding some touches of my own that deviate slightly from the original Quake dude.

In this mod, one could borrow the D3 Commando model (specifically because of the helmet which reminds me a bit of the Quake 1 dude's helmet) and alter it - that should be legal since that model is already in the game.

But yeah, you're right - but as I more or less implied, one should be careful to make the characters look definitely different.
I imagine some interesting things you could do with the Quake heroes - as for BJ, it's easy to make him different, but hard to make him 'feel' right imo. Sgt. Blaze in Generations didn't really feel like BJ Blazcowicz imo.
There are two ways you could do him:
1. Make him more closely resemble the original Wolf3d BJ, but make his clothes black so he looks more like a sort of secret agent on a stealth mission.
2. Give him a WW2'esque uniform, but be sure to make the overall appearance different from RtCW - perhaps outfit him with a helmet.

And as far as copyrighted names go, I'd prefer to simply avoid mentioning their names at all, which shouldn't be too hard either.