Client/Server for multiplayer?

[jokele80]

Yesterday I bought the new issue of the German magazine GameStar. There is a big preview about DOOM III in it. There isn't really something new except some new screenshots I haven't seen before. But there is also an interview with Tim Willits. In the last question GameStar asked:
Is it true that Doom III uses a peer-to-peer network for multiplayer?
Tim Willits:
First we tested a peer-to-peer network but it didn't work out. So we switched to a client/server system.
I haven't read that anywhere else. Is that true? That would be great news for all who wants to play DOOM III in multiplayer mode.

p.s.: Sorry about my English it's not my native language.

[Tetzlaff]

Yes, yesterday I bought the magazine as well (contains some really beautiful screenshots), and that note also catched my attention.

It´s great news actually, because that means you can have unlimited multiplayer fun just like in Q2 / Q3, if your hardware is strong enough.

Some other news bits from the article:

- Later in the game you will establish contact to some other surviving marines, who barricaded themselves somewhere below in a subterran tunnel system (or something like that). You can team up with them, but you will not giving them orders.

- More "barrels of fun": let a explosive barrel roll towards some demons, then shoot it... there are more examples mentioned where you can use the physics in creative ways to your advantage. In fact, the physics will play a major role for the replay value of the game, because it´s up to you how you interact with all the movable stuff inside the levels.

- The last 1/4 of the game will take place in hell.

[Arioch]

Interestink.

[dsm]

Tetzlaff said:
It´s great news actually, because that means you can have unlimited multiplayer fun just like in Q2 / Q3, if your hardware is strong enough.

Meh, as long as id sticks to the four-player limitation - I'm not interested in another Quake-style deathmatch with a zillion players duking it out. I want to hunt my opponents.

- Later in the game you will establish contact to some other surviving marines, who barricaded themselves somewhere below in a subterran tunnel system (or something like that). You can team up with them, but you will not giving them orders.

I hope this only happens *once* in that game and that it'll be incorporated in such a way that the NPCs won't be bothersome - I hate AI team mates.

- More "barrels of fun": let a explosive barrel roll towards some demons, then shoot it... there are more examples mentioned where you can use the physics in creative ways to your advantage. In fact, the physics will play a major role for the replay value of the game, because it´s up to you how you interact with all the movable stuff inside the levels.

Now this is freakin' awesome - this game just keeps gettin' better and better.

- The last 1/4 of the game will take place in hell.

Mixed feelings about this - I had kinda started looking forward to the possibility of having the climatic boss battle take place in Hell not at the end but not too far from the end of the game and then let the last few levels kinda "cool down" (clean-up missions in the last parts of the Mars base when you return from Hell) - this would've been something ruly new instead of the typical "end-game-with-gigantic-endboss-battle".

But then again, this piece of news doesn't exactly negate that possibility and it's still good news in that 1/4 of the entire game is set in Hell (1/4 is not to be scowled at - it's still more than "just a side trip" as we had heard earlier on.

[doomedout]

dsm said:
Now this is freakin' awesome - this game just keeps gettin' better and better.

Now if this was Half Life 2, DSM would have said, "TOO MUCH REALISM!", but its Doom3, so hence...."FREAKIN' AWESOME."

[Crix]

Don't forget the other recent article... er, one sec.


*** SPOILER ****







.. that we will make our way to hell to retrieve some sort of mega weapon that can defeat evil. (hmm, reminds me a certain movie with mila jovovich). So we could either go to hell and get this mega weapon and have a mega battle back on Mars, or we could do the battle down in hell and just have the rest of the story play out as some sort of movie... and then hopefully it will all end with a beautiful 50,000 poly bunny head on a stake. :P

[zark]

I hope Doom 3 will contain some gratuitous imp sex scenes.

Apart from that, this sounds cool. I can't wait to see the hell levels, that's one of the things I'm most anticipating... just imagine what id can do with the engine :)

[Tetzlaff]

dsm said:

Meh, as long as id sticks to the four-player limitation - I'm not interested in another Quake-style deathmatch with a zillion players duking it out. I want to hunt my opponents.

1-on-1 tourneys are most popular in Q3. You hunt your opponent there. Q3 isn´t all about 20 players chaotic deathmatches.

My favourite in Q2 and Q3 (and UT2k3 as well) is CTF. It wouldn´t work very well with only 4 players, so I´m very happy to hear about the server-client thing. I hope Quake4 will have some great CTF in Q2 tradition :)

I hope this only happens *once* in that game and that it'll be incorporated in such a way that the NPCs won't be bothersome - I hate AI team mates.

The fact that you don´t have to order them arround shows that you still are on your own in your decisions. Suddenly being the leader of a squad with the objective to babysit your AI comrades would sure suck, like it sucks in so many other games. Maybe you only etsablish contact with them to find out that they have been slaughtered by hell spawn when you finally reach their hideout :) Who knows.

[Arno]

Client-server multiplayer in DoomIII !!!! W00t! That's great news! We will be able to join and quit internet servers without a hassle. Yay!

[dsm]

doomedout said:

Now if this was Half Life 2, DSM would have said, "TOO MUCH REALISM!", but its Doom3, so hence...."FREAKIN' AWESOME."

You're fool.
[edit]Hmm, I'd better give you a better response since I can't expect people to interpret my subtle little hint correctly.
Why did I call you a fool? Let's dissect this little beast here:

1. You have made an utterly retarded accusation that clearly shows that you've either misunderstood previous Half Life 2 related comments I made, or you have somehow managed to mix two entirely different comments of mine together and somehow confused them with one anoter.
In the past I've said that I found Half Life 1 boring partially because it uses real life weapons instead of some imaginative futuristic looking machineguns and whatnot (I've also said that I found it boring because marines don't flinch - but that just goes to show that your assumption that I dislike realism in HL is wrong, because flinching enemies give a better feel of realism). I've said, I found the HL rl annoying because of it's realism.
However, you have somehow managed to completely ignore the list of realism-related things I've actually praised HL for in the past, such as e.g. increased accuracy when crouching.

As for HL2, I've merely stated that I haven't been interested in it, because I fear it will be too much like HL1 in terms of some HL1 elements I disliked (AI team mates that follow you around, human enemies that don't flinch - bullet weapons that feel awfully weak etc.).

I have never said anything that could be interpreted as "Half Life 2 is realistic! I won't buy it because of that!!!!" if you read my comment properly.

Does this warrant my "you're a fool" comment? No, but (2) does in the light of what I just explained in (1).

2. You have thrown a HL2 related comment into a Doom 3 thread that has next to nothing to do with Half Life 2 - be that as it may, but your message is accusing and provoking and by posting it you have provoked a response at the risk of shifting the topic into one of these tiresome "HL2 vs Doom 3" debates, which could ruin a perfectly interesting thread. I have no interest to engage in another "HL2 vs Doom 3" argument and I'm positive a lot of other Members around here don't want to either, hence I think you did am, in my eyes, really retarded move which I think deserves a "you're a fool" comment.

If you wish to continue this argument, do so through PMs but don't ruin this thread - not as much for my sake as for your own and for that of the other forum participants.

If anybody else wishes to support doomedout in his spiteful reaction towards my personal taste feel free to contact me about it through PMs, as long as you use valid arguments, thanks.
[/edit]

The fact that you don´t have to order them arround shows that you still are on your own in your decisions. Suddenly being the leader of a squad with the objective to babysit your AI comrades would sure suck, like it sucks in so many other games. Maybe you only etsablish contact with them to find out that they have been slaughtered by hell spawn when you finally reach their hideout :) Who knows.

Hmm, MoH:AA had NPCs that you didn't exactly order around, they just followed you and started shooting every enemy in sight, but they were still annoying imho.
Of course, if these here D3 NPCs just move around on their own volition, then it might not be as annoying. Hm, I'll try to keep an open mind.

[Zoorado]

I've a feeling that such a scenario is included in the game to show off its AI.

[doomedout]

Jesus I was kidding. You took it to heart. =(

[dsm]

Jesus I was kidding. You took it to heart. =(

Check your PMs and ignore what I said in this thread. Somebody repair my joke detector.

Zoorado said:

I've a feeling that such a scenario is included in the game to show off its AI.

Yeah, after the whole "no helmet" business to show off facial expressions, I think it's safe to say that they wanna include some proper AI display - and the best way to do it, sadly, seems to be with AI friendlies.

[Tetzlaff]

Zoorado said:

I've a feeling that such a scenario is included in the game to show off its AI.

I don´t think so. They never said human-like AI would be an important part of the game. The main reason probably is adding some interesting scenes to the game.
Maybe it will be made in a similar style like in the part with the scientist who can hold the flashlight for you. Either you help him so that he can help you, or you leave him alone and do everything by yourself.

[Wobbo]

dsm said:

Meh, as long as id sticks to the four-player limitation - I'm not interested in another Quake-style deathmatch with a zillion players duking it out. I want to hunt my opponents.

If the maps are big enough you could hunt opponents with 8 players

I find it weird that you mention 2 things you wont like about doom3 and then turn around and say the game looks "better and better". Either your an extreme optomist or a

... doom zealot

[Livo]

I want AI teammates to fight with me, as long as they have decent AI. If not, then I'd prefer to have no AI teammates, except maybe in a very small capacity like the scientist and flashlight for example

[TwiNCannoN]

Hm, that's actually kind of disheartening. Of course, at first I was like "WTF PEER TO PEER? THIS IS GONNA SUCK OMJ", but after thinking about it - wouldn't a new-age peer to peer connetion have an INSANE netcode? Like, one viable to have 1on1/2on2 tourny's not only country-wide but perhaps worldwide? I mean, I remember playing doom on 14.4's and 28.8's and the lag there was for the most part fine, now that I think of the possibility for it with broadband I was beginning to get excited. However, with client/server, it's just going to be the same as the rest... hope Id makes a really good netcode this time at least :\ I'm tired of all these crap netcodes lately (i.e. anything with the word "unreal" in it).

[edit: wrong word]

[Mogul]

I want p2p honestly...

But now that c/s is in - at least keep the four-player thing...

I want this doom to be REALLY personal, and that will help a lot.

[Tetzlaff]

mje said:

But now that c/s is in - at least keep the four-player thing...

Really, WTF is the point with that? You can limit every server you set up to whichever number of players you want. Have you guys never played on a duel (1on1) server in Quake3 or UT? It´s personal, it´s strategic, it´s only 2 players fighting (and others spectating). You can also set up a 2 vs 2 team deathmatch server, or a standard deathmatch server with only 4 player slots. No problem at all, it´s up to the administrator.

[Mogul]

You have a point, but the whole ideaology of having a max (as in max,PERIOD) of four players in this game suits me much better than the alternative.

I don't want super fast carnage with twenty players in this game. And really, it looks like the gameplay is better suited to four anyway.

It's smaller, and for my tastes for this particular game, better.

See what I mean? Just my preference. ^^

[Tetzlaff]

There´s now an online version of the Gamestar article available on their site: http://www.gamestar.de/magazin/previews/action/14606/

Enjoy the screenshots...

Revenant in curved corridor http://www.gamestar.de//graphics/bild_db/8800/8896/PopUp_640x480.idg

Another Revenant, accomapanied by an Imp. Note the awsome hell scenery in the background http://www.gamestar.de//graphics/bild_db/8800/8893/PopUp_640x480.idg

Hell Knight in cave system http://www.gamestar.de//graphics/bild_db/8800/8897/PopUp_640x480.idg

Deathmatch scene: red player (weird helmet clearly visible) holding a flashlight http://www.gamestar.de//graphics/bild_db/8800/8891/PopUp_640x480.idg

Nice shot of my favourite enemy, the Commando http://www.gamestar.de//graphics/bild_db/8800/8892/PopUp_640x480.idg

Trites http://www.gamestar.de//graphics/bild_db/8800/8894/PopUp_640x480.idg

Secret pic (not showing in the article) http://www.gamestar.de//graphics/bild_db/8800/8895/PopUp_640x480.idg

(I hope it´s OK to hotlink the individual pics)




@ mje: yeah I see what you mean... but I think there is no reason to fear that Doom3 MP will be dominated by 20 player deathmatches.

[nxn]

Ahh, I think the revanent would look kick ass if it had long gray hair going from the back of it's skull to it's shoulders.

And I still can't get used to the lost souls, the fire doesn't sit right on them.

[DaJuice]

That last "secret pic" looks like a bad composite.

[deathbringer]

That "secret pic" is in the PC ZONE article i posted about in the other thread, so its probably official then ^-^. I love that revenant in the coridoor one, with the lost soul coming along to be annoying as well