The /newstuff Chronicles #162

[Use]

Glad I didn't listen to the review of Endgame. Those are some great maps, deserve more attention.

[Andy Olivera]

So I was thinking it was a single line on top of another one with some crazy dummy sector stuff going on

Actually, I think it could be done that way, too. It would require some texture modifications, though.

You could create a small indent, like usual. You could then cover the indent using the middle textures of two lines set on top of each other. Each line could have a different sector reference, ergo a different light value. The textures would have to be cut so there isn't any overlap with the other textures. The only thing to determine then is how to set the sector of the second line. My guess would be to set the line to the same height as the indent. You might even be able to use the same sector as the indent, so you wouldn't have to have any dummy sectors at all.

This would even allow for the stairstepping effect(dark/light/dark). Maybe it's worth exploring. Thanks for sparking my imagination... :-)

[ukiro]

Andy Olivera said:

Actually, I think it could be done that way, too. It would require some texture modifications, though.

You could create a small indent, like usual. You could then cover the indent using the middle textures of two lines set on top of each other. Each line could have a different sector reference, ergo a different light value. The textures would have to be cut so there isn't any overlap with the other textures. The only thing to determine then is how to set the sector of the second line. My guess would be to set the line to the same height as the indent. You might even be able to use the same sector as the indent, so you wouldn't have to have any dummy sectors at all.

This would even allow for the stairstepping effect(dark/light/dark). Maybe it's worth exploring. Thanks for sparking my imagination... :-)

I was thinking the exact same thing! If possible, it could be made to look extremely good. and in the vanilla exectuable!

[Sporku]

My 14 year old thought it was cool so I would imagine this age range would find it fun to play

If I were 14 when I saw insanity, I would probably say that it was pure shite. But that's just me.

[Andy Olivera]

I was thinking the exact same thing! If possible, it could be made to look extremely good. and in the vanilla exectuable!

It works! Cut & Paste this link for a pic(it won't work if you click it): http://www.geocities.com/andy_olivera/DOOM00.jpg

It didn't even require modifying the textures; DooM clips them just fine. To make it perfect(yes, perfect) you can remove the overlapping line's Two-Sided tag(don't delete the second sidedef, though) and it'll not only block projectiles, but bullets!

The only question now is who'll be the first to use it? :-)

[0-Mephisto-0]

The link still doesn't work, even if you Copy-Paste

[Andy Olivera]

Weird. It works fine for me. Try this.

[Szymanski]

Thats a cool effect Andy, very usefull :)

Regarding map07 the lights across the floor don't affect monster movement because the sectors are the same level as those surrounding them. The ceiling is +1024 but I haven't seen anything odd because of this (like caco's flying up into it).

I got the idea from the maps in Darkening2 (where I first saw them), of course they do interfere with monsters as the monsters see pits in the floor 1024 deep. The original idea was to have light escaping from a half open door.

[pritch]

Oh, wow. I just happened to remember to check out newstuff before washing the car and now the car's going to have to wait till tomorrow.

Hell Revealed 2. Bliminey cricket, crikey, etc. And Endgame, map07 in particular.

Fantastic guys. Very, very well done.

[Andy Olivera]

Regarding map07 the lights across the floor don't affect monster movement because the sectors are the same level as those surrounding them.

I guess the problems I had came with transitioning from one sector to another out in the open. In that case you have an extra problem because raising a ceiling out of view next to a sector with a different light level means one bleeds into the other. The solution is too complicated to explain, but you can see it in the hallways of HR2-08. In fact, the first Newstuff screenshot is of exactly that.

Thats a cool effect Andy, very usefull :)

Always looking to add something to the DooM editing cookbook. Now if I could only design my own levels well enough to use them myself... :-)

[ukiro]

Andy Olivera said:

It works! Cut & Paste this link for a pic(it won't work if you click it): http://www.geocities.com/andy_olivera/DOOM00.jpg

Dude, that is AWESOME! To think that someone would come up with a brand new branch of vanilla doom editing tricks in 2004... VERY good work! Now I need to try it myself.

[Fredrik]

ukiro said:

To think that someone would come up with a brand new branch of vanilla doom editing tricks in 2004...

Eh, that trick's been around for ages.

[ukiro]

Fredrik said:

Eh, that trick's been around for ages.

Really? I haven't seen it, but then again I'm not following DOOM very closely anymore. Care to mention a level where it's been used?

[Fredrik]

ukiro said:

Really? I haven't seen it, but then again I'm not following DOOM very closely anymore. Care to mention a level where it's been used?

Well, I used it in an unfinished level two years ago or so, and I'm sure I did so after seeing it elsewhere. I can't remember where though.

[NiGHTMARE]

I have a feeling Andy's way of doing the effect may be used in one of Crucified Dream's levels. IIRC it was one by Travers Dunne and Derek MacDonald.

Of course only a select few will have seen that :)

[Andy Olivera]

Eh, that trick's been around for ages.

I'm with Ola, here: I haven't seen it, either. The ability to superimpose Linedefs has never been common knowledge. Hell, I didn't know a level could function like that until I found such problems while cleaning up HR2. It may've been done before, but it hasn't been done enough. As the response to Endgame MAP07 confirms, this kind of thing can really enhance a level.

The only drawback is with the v1.9 limits(naturally): it could never be used over a large area because it takes so many lines.

I'd love to see another level where it's been used, though.

[deathbringer]

The 'stair shadow' effect is also used in P:AR in the beginning area, but thats not a vanilla wad..heh

[The Ultimate DooMer]

Andy Olivera said:

I'd love to see another level where it's been used, though.

I use that quite a lot now, but I've always put the linedef 1 unit away from the other(s) - didn't think you could stick 'em on top of each other though.

[Fletcher`]

The Ultimate DooMer said:

I use that quite a lot now, but I've always put the linedef 1 unit away from the other(s) - didn't think you could stick 'em on top of each other though.

I've done that with 2s lines all the time. The trick is to keep them both separate. It's extremely easy in doombuilder.

[boris]

... or you could simply use Boom specials :P

[Andy Olivera]

I use that quite a lot now, but I've always put the linedef 1 unit away from the other(s) - didn't think you could stick 'em on top of each other though.

That's probably the best way to do it until you're absolutely finished editing. The problem is when the nodes are built any vertices that share the same coords are merged, so when you go back to edit it the two lines still remain, but they share the same vertices and so can't be moved independently.

... or you could simply use Boom specials :P

Only for floor/ceiling effects. Boom doesn't have any specials that can alter the lighting on different parts of a Linedef. I imagine that would be a very complicated thing to code, seeing as how DooM lights Linedefs entirely based on Sector references.

[Ichor]

Try this: Take a single line polyobject (using ZDoom of course), and put the start spot over the linedef you want to use. The polyobject will adapt to the sector it's anchored to, not where it's moved to when the map begins. This means you could just change the light of the sector to whatever you want, and the polyobject will be just as bright or dark. I think it will also use the same sector tags, but I'm not sure about this.

[The Ultimate DooMer]

Hmm, I think we've just found a trick to complement Nanami's coloured flats one...

[Angus Thermopyle]

Hell Revealed II is great. I really like it. But it's the same with Hell Revealed: I enjoy it more to watch demos than playing it myself. I can't await the complete demopack :)

[NiGHTMARE]

Ichor said:

Try this: Take a single line polyobject (using ZDoom of course), and put the start spot over the linedef you want to use...

If you're using ZDoom, then you might as well just use 3D lights. Not only does it let you give different parts of a linedef different light levels, but you can even colour it and make it sloped :)

See this demonstration wad to find out how it's done.

[Linguica]

WTF, did endgame get removed?

[sargebaldy]

mordeth had some issues with it.