Doom 3 Imp

[Tetzlaff]

Aah yes, Cthulhu not Chtulhu... I always spell that name wrong. I read somewhere about the various inspiration sources behind the Doom (and later Quake) artwork, and the Lovecraft universe was one of them. In Q1 it´s pretty evident, and in Doom that particular wall ornament came first into my mind.

[dsm]

Shaviro said:

I had a nice chat with Romero about it. That beats any manual you can dig up. Also. The marble face that isn't the "Icon of Sin" or the "baron" is a picture of an alien. And yes...the "alien" part in the Doom2 text sequence means alien as in "outer space creature".

Guess that's yet another thing to add to my list of why Doom 2 is a bad sequel.
Where the fuck did those freakin' aliens come from anyways?

[chilvence]

I thought the third face was the Archie? You are talking about the one with the wires coming from its jaw right?

[Tetzlaff]

The wohle space aliens thing isn´t that important. They mixed alien and hell monsters in the original Doom because they didn´t took the whole thing too seriously, but the leading theme of Doom clearly was satanic hellspawn overrunning a moon base.

For Doom3 they make a more serious approach story-wise, so we can expect that the odd space alien is excluded.
The Mancubus works very well as a demonic creature, even the name is probably related to demons. I guess it´s based on incubus and succubus (male and female demons who try to engage in sex with humans), maybe also on manducus (latin for glutton), like manducus + succubus = mancubus? Could just be coincidence though, but I think it´s like a funny game on words.
As a hellish creature the Mancubus could represent the lost soul of a avaricious and gluttonous human who now is enslaved to save the forces of hell because he was such a greedy person in life ;)

[deathbringer]

I think the mancubus was from an alien species which *ALSO* discovered the gate into hell, and got zombified and warped by the demons, so the mancubus is a zombie of an alien..

at least, some fanfic said that..that "Teddy bear world" wad i was planning once would have featured zombified teddy bears in place of the former humans ect, seeing as anything that is killed by the demons gets zombified seemingly..unless it gets eaten first, or is wearing green

[MaximusNukeage]

News flash, 'teddy bears' ARENT ALIVE!

[Lectrix]

I can understand if the doom monster's/demon's were actually alien's (Doom 3 seems to have that whole "alien film" theme going on), it wouldn't bother me at all, coz id still want to blow them to bits.
Plus it would explain that whole earth invasion of doom 2's story.

But i would miss the whole hell spawn concept we all loved from the original doom, but all in all i'm not gonna cry over it, the hell knight, baron of hell and pinky demon's may be alien's rather than real hell spawn's, but they will still be one evil mother's to battle.

(DSM, maybe Doom3 will answer your question of "where they came from")

But then again i could be wrong, they might be demons, and all ive said is just opinion, but only ID can answer this question really.

[insertwackynamehere]

I don't know why people are so scared about them being aliens.

*cough*
Demon
Lost Soul
Cyberdemon
Cacodemon
Imp
Baron of Hell
Hell Knight
Pain Elemental
Icon of Sin
*cough*

[Prime]

The ONLY thing that somewhat bothers me about the enemies being pure hellspawn is the fact that some of them are cybernetically modified. Now, I think it looks absolutely badass, i.e. the new pinky demon and the ol' cyberdemon...but if they were straight from hell, why the modifications? Does Hell have it's own version of Skynet or something? ::kidding:: Again, I think it's cool either way, but it doesnt really make much sense...

[Fredrik]

Monsters invade base find UAC technology/UAC finds monsters performs experiments bla bla.

[Prime]

Fredrik, I can possibly see that, but...What about the Icon of Sin (in Hell, mind you) spawning endless hordes of cyberdemons and arachnotrons? Surely Hell isn't going to produce man-made technology, right? If there is some obvious explanation here and I'm just not seeing it, then I apologize...

[chilvence]

Come on, think about it. They're not just any demons, they're Cyborg Demons. CYBORG DEMONS!! You take a creature of pure evil and then you weld it to a robot. You cant get better than that!

[Fredrik]

Maybe they brought some technology back to hell?

[chilvence]

Maybe the demons just thought it would be cool to be cyborgs.

[Arioch]

Maybe technology is part of their manifestation of evil. They decided chains and tails and wings weren't enough, had to have more, etc.

[MaximusNukeage]

face it they were prolly just made in china

[chilvence]

Yeah, why is it such a taboo that demons should have cybernetic parts and whatnot - if you guys can live without an explanation for the fireballs and the uncanny ability to defy gravity, why is this any different?

[Arioch]

Think of them as goat horns and bat wings and cloven feet for a new age.

[Shaviro]

"Space aliens" is a LOT more plausible than "Creatures from hell" anyways. And please don't ask why, it's just common sense.

[Tetzlaff]

Argh no not this again...

There is no common sense about this and I think space aliens suck. Except Strogg. But that´s a different game.

[Fredrik]

"Hell" is a pretty damn abstract term so there's plenty of room for interpretation anyway.

[Prime]

chilvence said:

Yeah, why is it such a taboo that demons should have cybernetic parts and whatnot - if you guys can live without an explanation for the fireballs and the uncanny ability to defy gravity, why is this any different?

First of all, it isn't taboo. I think it looks awesoome visually, and for a game like Doom, visuals are most important. I just don't see the logic in demons having technology...case closed.

Oh, and about the fireballs: If these creatures are demons from Hell, then it naturally follows that emitting fire or some kind of energy is a logical ability for hellspawn to have...as well as the defying of gravity, etc. So yes, it IS different than the cybernetic stuff because technology is man-made; Fireballs from an Imp aren't.

But hey, we wouldn't have the cyberdemon if it weren't for this stuff! So it's all good... ;-)

[dsm]

Prime said:

The ONLY thing that somewhat bothers me about the enemies being pure hellspawn is the fact that some of them are cybernetically modified. Now, I think it looks absolutely badass, i.e. the new pinky demon and the ol' cyberdemon...but if they were straight from hell, why the modifications? Does Hell have it's own version of Skynet or something? ::kidding:: Again, I think it's cool either way, but it doesnt really make much sense...

Hell is able to fuck up a space station and to turn it into something Hellish looking - since Hell can morph and mutate technology, it should be a rather small feat for them to mutate and warp technology into their own bodies (and modify technology for their use in the process).

Makes perfect sense to me personally.

[Prime]

DSM, I didn't quite think about it that way. But yeah...I guess I can see the plausiblity in that. I'd rather move from the assumption that Hell mutated the technology to fit their needs, rather than some UAC scientists experimenting on them...

[Demonic]

It would be cool on Doom 3 if when you go to hell you find a factory of sorts that produces all the cybernetic demons with some sort of worker demons. That would help explain it. Then we could see if they are using honda or briggs&stratton engines on the new pinkys(just kidding ofcourse).

[dsm]

Demonic said:

It would be cool on Doom 3 if when you go to hell you find a factory of sorts that produces all the cybernetic demons with some sort of worker demons. That would help explain it.

Hmm, I wouldn't like that but I can understand why you'd find that cool. But it just doesn't fit with my interpretation of Hell. To each his own of course...

And now that I think about it, why would we want Id to explain too much about Hell and the demons? The cool thing about Id's games is that they leave lots of room for interpretation - the con is of course that you end up having arguments with all kinds of people that, at heart, are actually rather stupid :-P

Essentially, let's just hope D3 doesn't have revelations that fuck up our interpretations of the demons and Hell in the Doom universe.

[Mogul]

Man - I can't believe this is actually up for debate.

The creatures - ALL of them - are in one way or another, from HELL.

HELL - the place Jesus is here to save you from. The lake of fire. The place where there's "weeping and gnashing of teeth."

It's HELL, they're DEMONS, and it doesn't matter HOW they're partly cybernetic, who's to say Hell doesn't have technology too?

As for the mancubus - he may be an alien, I haven't talked to Romero about it (or [probably] better than Romero, Adrian or Kevin, who actually designed the f*cking thing). However, whatever the heck the mancubus once was, how you meet him in DOOM II is a DEMONIZED freak, just like the rest of the enemies.

I mean really, were those "former humans" possessed by :alien spirits?"

Give me a break, they're from Hell, and that's final. And obvious.

[Fredrik]

No, they're aliens! This fact is obvious and cannot be defeated.

[Prime]

mje said:

Give me a break, they're from Hell, and that's final. And obvious.

No shit. That seems to be the general concensus here.

I think we've beaten this particular subject to Hell (no pun intended), seeing as how, as DSM stated, there is much room from interpretation and discussion.

Now, where were we?

[chilvence]

dsm said:

the con is of course that you end up having arguments with all kinds of people that, at heart, are actually rather stupid :-P

Hey, everyone is entitled to their own opinon ;)


(exept for the deadbeat hippie alien lovers. they can go to hell and be tortured by cyborgs)