Miscellaneous demos (part 1) [please post in part 3 instead]

[Kira]

Congrats ! Still I'm wondering what would be your time if you woulda done it with at least prboom/prboom+... (perhaps close but not a sub 5mn I guess).
I'll watch it after the nm100s from justanotherfool (not seen yet D:)

EDIT : watched, your ideas to improve our routes was nice ! Good run, though it can be improved again.

EDIT 2 : justanotherfool's nm100s run on ruma is a must see !

[justanotherfool]

Just watched your max, Death Destiny. It was a wise decision to snipe the chaingunners in the second tower, saved quite a considerable amount of time there by the looks of things. Below 5 mins as well, that's a significant milestone for a not very significant map (a very fun one though) :). I might have another shot at that one if I can find time, and I think I'll have to attempt a tyson whether you do or not. I myself am a great proponent of the doors closed route, though K!r4 has said that it doesn't work as well in UVmax as in NM.

K!r4: I hope the NM100S is good, since I invested rather a lot of time in it :). I got very lucky in the end.

[Death-Destiny]

K!r4 said:

Still I'm wondering what would be your time if you woulda done it with at least prboom/prboom+... (perhaps close but not a sub 5mn I guess).

Excuse me? Are you hating on my demo because it's for Zdoom? Now you have to face my wrath. >=( Personally, I think the differences between engines make it more difficult to record good demos in Zdoom. Just for you, K!r4, I recorded a PrBoom V2.4.7 UVmax demo of ruma, also sub-5:00. In fact, I did it in 4:46, 10 seconds better than last time. So there.
Now if you don't mind, Imma keep making Zdoom demos because it is my preferred method. =/

See for yourself: http://files.filefront.com/DDRuma446lmp/;10427472;/fileinfo.html

[evocalvin]

After watching justanotherfool and Death-Denstiny's demo
drove me to play this map
Thanks for your nice demos
but still no luck get sub 3:00 :(

1 Monster Map 2 UV-Max
1m02-300

[Kira]

Death-Destiny said:

Excuse me? Are you hating on my demo because it's for Zdoom? Now you have to face my wrath. >=(

Dude, really, I'm wondering how you've read my post to be anger, your ego seems to be what is it.
Anyway, now I think it's an optimised maxrun with a great compatibility for a lot of sourceports, you make me happy, thx =)

[justanotherfool]

Last night I recorded a UVMax of ruma which was I think a second faster than DD's first one, but I see he's improved it, leaving me in the dust once more. Bah :)! Well, it might be of some interest, since it uses the closed doors method unlike K!r4 and Death Destiny's demos.

Congratulations to Evocalvin on reaching 3:00, that must surely be close to optimum. Just going to watch that and Death Destiny's new max.

rumamax-455.zip

[Death-Destiny]

OK ,so here's a tyson run of 1monster's final imp map (map06.) It had a berserk pack right at the beginning, so I thought it would be fun. >=) It took me 5:01, which as an initial run, I''m sure is improvable, so while we finish off ruma, we can start on this one, though ruma still needs a tyson run doesn't it? =(

Recorded with Zdoom V2.2: http://files.filefront.com/DD1m06tysonlmp/;10436198;/fileinfo.html

[justanotherfool]

Hmmm, I see that none of my recent attachments are showing up. Unfortunately, this means I have to resort to rapidshare :) .
Included are all the demos for which the attachment hasn't appeared as well as 1m05-655, 1m06-459 and 1m07-231, which are all maxdemos.

Not too happy with the 1m06, I'll almost certainly improve it later. Getting the RL secret first time can be problematic, and I've also been having trouble with missing imps, so I decided to submit the best I have so far and improve later. The other two are fine, though. It'll be interesting to see what kind of improvements people can make to 1m05 in particular.

The link is
http://rapidshare.com/files/119137078/Latest.zip.html
Also attaching the zipfile since the rapidshare hosting is just a stopgap.

DD: I find it better to record what takes your fancy, as opposed to having a rigidly adhered to list. You can always come back to the tyson on Ruma later, which is what I'm doing. If you're looking for something to do, I'd welcome improvements to 1m04 and 1m05 in particular.

latest.zip

[Death-Destiny]

justanotherfool said:

DD: I find it better to record what takes your fancy, as opposed to having a rigidly adhered to list. You can always come back to the tyson on Ruma later, which is what I'm doing. If you're looking for something to do, I'd welcome improvements to 1m04 and 1m05 in particular.

Your words ring true, Fool. =P Thanks for that though. =)

Now, I was messing around on map05 of the 1monster WAD and it dawned on me a way to do a speedrun slightly more efficiently than the one posted recently. I did a couple of things in it differently than TGH, and sure enough my time was 1:47.

Here it is, recorded with PrBoom V2.4.7: http://files.filefront.com/DD1m05speed147lmp/;10439415;/fileinfo.html

Now, I've finally gotten to work on DP again. What I'm doing is alternating between making sections of the map and recording demos, so I might have a few more later.

[justanotherfool]

DD: Your alteration at the beginning there was very well done, you made the best use possible of the barrels, I think. For a slightly better time you could try using TGH's strafe-50 trick with the berserk pack, although you managed to claw your way out of the pit pretty quickly in any case.
You and TGH are a lot better at handling the various cramped areas in this level than I am, that's for sure.. :)

Glad to hear that progress on DP is ongoing, it looks like it'll be worth a demopack of its own. Expect a few more 1m maxdemos from me fairly soon. The quality is likely to be pretty average since I'm trying to lay foundations for further work, as it were - I can improve them later, hopefully with the help of other demoers.

[The Green Herring]

I did an improvement on my 1monster.wad MAP05 demo, using two of Death-Destiny's improvements, and I also did a UV speed / pacifist demo for MAP14. Check 'em out.

1m05-139 - 1 Monster (1monster.wad) MAP05: Infested by Liberation and Macro11_1 in 1:39 (UV speed)
1m14-045 - 1 Monster (1monster.wad) MAP14: The Crucified Factory by daimon in :45 (UV speed / pacifist)

[Death-Destiny]

OK, so I made an improvement on the Fool's 1monster map07 and I actually have something more to say on this. I read the Fool's text file accompanying it and one of his comments was that his "shots did not seem to register." Well, I'm glad you brought that up as though there was something wierd about it. There is.

As it would turn out, this map showcases a very obscure bug in the original Doom code. Doom determines hit detection using a blockmap, divided into 128x128 unit squares. It only checks if a target should take damage from a hitscan if the demon's center is in the same block as the hitscan, even if it "hits" the monsters square outside the box. Observe this diagram:



You are the green square and the red one is the 'tron. The 'tron is on the border between two blocks. If you only shoot though the upper block while the 'trons center is in the lower one, your shot will go right through it. O_o

Here's my source if you want to read in-depth: http://doom2.net/doom2/research/things.html

This is one reason why I'm a proponent of Zdoom, which corrects this coding error. You should not have to shoot a 'tron 5-6 times with the SSG when it should take 3 shots. Now, this usually makes no difference, as almost all maps are constructed so the blockmap works properly. You already saw that my PrBoom run on ruma was faster with the glitch than the Zdoom demo without. However, 1monster map07 was constructed with the blockmap borders down the middle of the passages, making the 'trons center very difficult to target relative to the blockmap and its own square.

Anyway, here are some demos: http://files.filefront.com/DD1m07collisionbugdemozip/;10443974;/fileinfo.html

Demo 1 is for Zdoom V2.2 and was completed in 2:18, where I could kill the 'trons in three SSG hits from any angle. Demo 3 is for PrBoom V2.4.7 and shows the exact same strategy, but I run out of ammo because I have to spend 8-10 shells per 'tron. Demo 4 is also for PrBoom V2.4.7 and shows a method where you can shoot kind of off-center to increase the chance of hitting the 'trons and killing them consistantly in 3-4 SSG shots; this time was 2:26. However, I doubt a PrBoom demo for this particular map could match that of a Zdoom demo because of the hoops one must jump through simply to kill the demons in a regular amount of hits. The Zdoom demo simply ran through and killed everything while the PrBoom demo used time-saving strategies and was still slower. Now, I made mistakes, so it could be brought up to 2:18, but it would be considerably more difficult and doesn't compare to being able to kill the 'trons uninhibited.

[justanotherfool]

Yeah, I was sure that something was off there, I had a number of prior attempts spoiled by that hallway as well.
If I decide to attempt 1m07 some more, I imagine this information will be quite useful, so thanks for that, DD.

I have some more maxdemos, as promised. They are 1m08-336 and 1m10-459.
I also have a speed demo of 1m09, since it appears 100% kills aren't possible, due to the fact that it's a lost soul map. I didn't spend very much time on it at all, it'll be easy to improve. The maxdemos are of a higher quality.

More demos soon, people.

1m08,09,10.zip

[myk]

Death-Destiny said:
You should not have to shoot a 'tron 5-6 times with the SSG when it should take 3 shots.

All the play testing of the original game, and of any maps designed for "vanilla" behavior are assuming the bug is there. If you take it out ammo balance and deadliness are altered.

Considering tons of single player demos, by quite far the majority, have been recorded with the bug (most are v1.9, with Boom as the next largest group), recording without it produces demos that are something different from the body of demos the community has learned to appreciate through the years. In a more competitive scenario with a history, playing consistency is more important than arbitrarily fixing a bug that's been there for years.

[Squonk]

http://lsvc.free.fr/CFD/Misc/e2m5-odd.zip
Reminds me a failed movie... Look how I die on e2m5 :)

[Kira]

Heh funny one, it happens often with demons and spectres for me...

[Death-Destiny]

OK, I've got some Zdoom parallels for the Fool's demos. The Fool was right that there was much room for improvement. I kept losing an imp in map06 and not being able to find it. The worst part was I could hear it snickering at me, laughing to itself about how easily it could run the clock up by hiding from me. D=

Oh, the demos:

1m06 in 4:31: http://files.filefront.com/DD1m06431lmp/;10458246;/fileinfo.html, recorded with Zdoom V2.2
1m08 in 3:15: http://files.filefront.com/DD1m08315lmp/;10458304;/fileinfo.html, recorded with Zdoom V2.2

I actually think I'm going to make a demopack for 1monster equivalent to the Fool's except for Zdoom, so I'll go at his pace to make it more fun doing all the maps at roughly the same time. =) Zdoom doesn't see enough demo activity, IMHO =( I think that it would be cool if the acrhive had a super-category that organized the demos by the port recorded in and then the WADs used so that non-mainstream port proponents wouldn't feel left out. That way, such fans will have more demos played with observing minor idiosyncracies of the specific port, not that such a demo pack won't be useful either way, and fun to make... just food for thought, though. =)

justanotherfool said:

Glad to hear that progress on DP is ongoing, it looks like it'll be worth a demopack of its own.

I hope DP will be fun for demo-running. Actually, I've been deliberately making certain that it is possible to get 100% kills and secrets on every map without having to do anything awkward or inconsistant. Another thing I'm trying to do is make the enemy teleport rooms as efficient as possible, since it's annoying to have an excellent run wrecked from having to wait 10-15 seconds for a straggler to teleport in. Fortunately, the original Plutonia's teleport setups are the most efficient I've ever seen and were the one's I took after back when I was teaching myself to map. BTW, anyone who frequents this thread and is interested in DP, I just posted the next update in the WAD 'n MODs thread. =)

EDIT:Actually, I do wonder about speedrunning map29, "One-Thousand Adversaries." Something about 1000 enemies seems to defy speedrunning. =/

[justanotherfool]

More demos, people.

Today I did the 11th, 12th and 13th maps of 1 monster ("Mausoleum", "Baron Citadel" and "Workin' on the Chain Gang").
Unfortunately the latter is not actually a UVMax, since I only got 2/3 secrets. Not sure what happened there, since I'm pretty sure I visited all 3 secrets. This means I'll be redoing it very soon, but I couldn't be bothered to attempt it again tonight, so I decided to submit what I have.

Keep up the good work, Death Destiny. I particularly liked your "Buckshot Waltz" demo.

1m11,12,13.zip

[Anima Zero]

Tossing in a 1 monster demo I just did, map09 "Chamber of Souls" UV-Speed in 1:59. Attaching demo now.

1m09-159.zip

[justanotherfool]

Ah, I was hoping somebody would improve on my crappy time.

Look forward to seeing it, Anima.

[Death-Destiny]

Where is everyone? As I post this, there is only 1 other person around. The forums are a lonely place today. =(

Anyway, I've got the Zdoom variants of the 1 monster maps11-13. I've got a really cool one of a strategy to do the Hell Baron map in 5:30.
I also tried a slightly riskier strategy on the Chaingunner map that manages a 5:11 that might be interesting to watch. The Specter map demo is pretty standard and I think I just did the regular route a bit more efficiently in 8:31.

1m11 in 8:31: http://files.filefront.com/DD1m11+831lmp/;10470870;/fileinfo.html, recorded with Zdoom V2.2
1m12 in 5:30: http://files.filefront.com/DD1m12+530lmp/;10470891;/fileinfo.html, recorded with Zdoom V2.2
1m13 in 5:11: http://files.filefront.com/DD1m13+511lmp/;10470909;/fileinfo.html, recorded with Zdoom V2.2

@The Fool: I watch the "failed" Chaingunner map demo, and I know why you failed to get 100% secrets. You nabbed the invisibility without actually stepping into the capsule. The sector inside the capsule is the one that is actually is flagged as a secret. But still a very well-done demo even if it's not technically a max. =)

[Hitherto]

small maxdemo for "Dawn of the Dead" (DODEAD) e1m1 in 1:18

[Anima Zero]

Another 1 monster demo here. This one is a UV-Max for map 21, Cyberswat. Time is 6:55. Attaching the demo now.

1m21-655.zip

[justanotherfool]

I have one demo today, a UVMax on 1m map 14, "Crucified Factory".
I hate that red key hallway.. :(

1m14-412.zip

[Death-Destiny]

Well, since Anima Zero did the UVMax on "Cyberswat," I might as well do mine too. I actually came up with a pretty sweet strategy for this one. I decided to do this one in both Zdoom and PrBoom, since I think the ideal strategy is slightly different for each. Both demos have the same time, however.

1m21 in 5:51: http://files.filefront.com/DD1m21+551lmp/;10480586;/fileinfo.html, recorded with Zdoom V2.2
1m21 in 5:51: http://files.filefront.com/DD1m21+551PrBoomlmp/;10480603;/fileinfo.html, recorded with PrBoom V2.4.7

I see The Fool did map14, so I guess I'll do that next, but there's a lightning storm where I am, so I'm going to shut down after posting this so I don't die from being electrocuted. =(

I guess that demo will have to wait. =(

[Death-Destiny]

Lightning strom's over, so here's your Zdoom 1 monster Map14 UVMax demo.

1m14 in 3:31: http://files.filefront.com/DD1m14+331lmp/;10482796;/fileinfo.html, recorded with Zdoom V2.2

BTW, it happened again that I was the only person on the forums, which is unusual. Is the server having problems? =(

[justanotherfool]

DD: When I saw your considerably improved time I assumed you must have figured out how to get the BFG, but now I see that you didn't.
I guess making proper use of rockets can make a huge difference.

Surely there must be a way to survive picking up the BFG? It seems perverse to have it hanging there out of the player's reach like that.

I tried to watch your Mausoleum demo, but it went out of sync when you were punching spectres in the opening graveyard a few minutes in. Makes me wonder if one of us has an outdated version of 1m. I got the one on this computer from idgames not that long ago, but a copy has been sitting around my demo recording comp for a while and I don't recall where it came from. No problems with the other demos though.

[Searcher]

I had a sync prob on that demo as well. Also a prob w/ two of the collision bug demos. The rest of the DD demos work fine w/ my zdoom 220.

[Death-Destiny]

Searcher said:

I had a sync prob on that demo as well. Also a prob w/ two of the collision bug demos. The rest of the DD demos work fine w/ my zdoom 220.

Some of my stuff is for PrBoom V2.4.7, including two of the collision bug demos and one of the recent ones, so they probably would go out of sync in Zdoom, although the map11 demo is for ZdoomV2.2. I think I must have a slightly different version of 1monster, as The Fool's "Mausoleum" demo went out of sync for me. =(

@The Fool: My initial runs on "Crucified Factory" used the ammo in whatever order it was given to me, which produced standard results. Then I realized that I could kill a lot of the Viles with the SSG without wasting time hiding, so I realized that I should save my rockets and plasma for the larger groups near the end which would force you to dive for cover constantly with the SSG, and it seems to work much better. And, unfortunately, one cannot use the BFG... it's only there to taught you. ;)

EDIT: I just checked and my version of 1monster matches the one in the archive... very strange indeed.

EDIT #2: I just redownloaded 1monster and tried The Fool's Mausoleum demo again and it still went out of sync, and in the same graveyard suspiciuosly enough. Maybe something is failing to trigger in the demo that happened in the actual playthrough?

[Gusta]

I improved my prboom time on map06 tyson to 4:46. Thanks Death-Destiny again :-)
EDIT: (on 1monster.wad) :-)

1m06t446.zip