Co-Op Play?

[Macro11_1]

Has there ever been any wads that have been desinged to be played on Co-Op only? Like beef up the monsters so it takes teamwork, or just more than one person to take them down. Or maby to make the level desing so that you have to seperate to solve a puzzle or somting? Or maby make it so your in seperate parts of a level and affect eachother in ways like switches, direct help (seperated by a wire wall that is impassable), or start with seperate keys and have to help eachother to progress... or somthing along the line of this?

Please list your ideas in this thread... it would be much appreciated by me.

I dont think there has been, but if there has, i would LOVE to play them! so if you know of any, could you please post them here?

~Macro11_1

[Mogul]

Well, any of the popular pwads are co-op-doable. Hell Revealed, Alien Vandetta.

Memento Mori 2 was MADE for co-op actually, though it's certainly not co-op only.

[Demigod]

Team tnt's icarus,I think was desihgned (I can't spel) for coop.I'm not sure but I think it has swiches were both players have to hit at the same time.Thus making it impossible to play sp without cheating.A new map Neo_doom, by daniel, is pretty good for coop imo.It was in the last newstuff thingy.

[Macro11_1]

To mje: Yes, but thats not really what I am looking for. I am looking for somthing where in desing, 2 people paying have been integrated, you know what I mean?

To Demigod: No I dont think so, i tryed icarus... didnt like it, but also it is do-able in sp...

any other sugestions/comments for ways some one could do this, or for a wad that has allready been made like this?

~Macro11_1

[Grazza]

Demigod said:

Team tnt's icarus,I think was desihgned (I can't spel) for coop.I'm not sure but I think it has swiches were both players have to hit at the same time.Thus making it impossible to play sp without cheating.

No, it's primarily for SP (there are several full demopacks in case you want to see for yourself), but special attention has been given to multi-player. Some of the maps behave very differently in multi-player (more DM than coop though), since certain areas are opened up or blocked off by linedefs that can only be reached (or avoided) from the MP starts.

[Dron]

Alien Vendetta is a very good Co-Op megawad

[deathbringer]

I think the recently released Dues Vult was designed for co-op, in the higher difficulty levels it would certianly be very hard for anyone but a doomgod to do it alone..

[Grazza]

You'll find some coop suggestions here. Note in particular the site that Opulent linked to.

But note that some levels in Final Doom are not really coop-friendly (e.g. pl22 is probably a physical impossibility).

And deathbringer: It's "Deus Vult". As in the Latin word for God, you know?

[VinceDSS]

Grazza said:

But note that some levels in Final Doom are not really coop-friendly (e.g. pl22 is probably a physical impossibility).

It is not impossible if you die and respawn, let's say, 40 times :)

If you want to do it w/o dying, you might need to start the map with 200/200 and full 600 BFG cells. Otherwise, I'd rate it 'almost impossible' from scratch w/o deaths.

[Piezo]

Like scythe?

[VinceDSS]

as far as remember scythe is very good in coop, not like the half-assed coop in plutonia.

[Doom Marine]

A good co-op wad should never, ever leave the players starved for ammo, that's a big NO-NO... but yeah, Scythe is outstanding in co-op due to the small levels and excellent flow.

EDIT: Plutonia Map22's six viles behind fake walls coupled with two cyberdemons are an atrocity.

[Piezo]

Converted DOOMer said:

A good co-op wad should never, ever leave the players starved for ammo, that's a big NO-NO... but yeah, Scythe is outstanding in co-op due to the small levels and excellent flow.

That all depends on the settings...which is why I asked about standard settings in co-op. You can set give double ammo, keep weapons (with their pickup ammo quantities) and keep ammo. That way nobody should starve. Also, I always only pick up ammo that I almost surely know I'm going to use. It is a really bad habit that people have of grabbing everything they see (especially boxes of rockets) and getting killed, losing all of that ammo.

[Doom Marine]

To test if a wad is truly co-op friendly, the settings must be defaults with no items respawn or double ammo this-or-that... they are good co-op features, but in essence, these features drown out the true gameplay of the level. I can place one stimpack and one ammo clip at the beginning of my map, and instruct the player to turn on the item respawn features; playing my map, will you still call it a good multiplayer session?

Those multiplayer functions are indeed helpful, but has nothing to do with the quality of play for any given level; take a look at AV's co-op designs... beatable [w/o dying] from scratch for all maps, generous ammo too (AV25 for example); it doesn't need double ammo or any jacked-up features to have fun.

What I'm getting at is this: A [good] co-op friendly wad must be practically beatable w/o cheating (i.e. item respawns), or dying. Practically beatable and theoretically beatable are two different things, mind you... Plutonia Map22 is theoretically beatable, but no fun in fair co-op.

EDIT: Item respawns are useful when you have sucky people in the game.

[Macro11_1]

I think you are all missing my point.

Take this scenario in to concideration...

Player one starts in one room.
Finds blue key, and a blue switch, but a red door.

Player two starts in another room in another part of the level.
Finds a red key and a red switch, but a blue door.

Several rooms are connected with some kind of barrier between them, so you can see eachother, or help eachother or w/e.

After you both hit the switches, you get in to the same room via the doors lead to the same room or teleport.

then the last part (since your all beefed up with wepons and shit, and theres 2 of you) could have a shit load of monsters... but it could be more wide open to allow for manouverablility and stuff :P.

But anyways... do you know what i mean by all this? where its more or less Co-Op only...

It dosent neccicarly have to be like this, (built in to the level) but it could also be a switch puzzle or monsters changed to be harder.

Also, again, i ask for any suggestions on making a Co-Op only level...

thanx for you time and patronage =).

[myk]

At least one map in Memento Mori has sections that are reachable only if you have more than one Player. Cooperative-only wads are rare though, as most people play alone. Clinet/server engines haven't changed this much since Cooperative on a public server is crap (at least it won't really inspire Coop-only wads much.)

[Grazza]

Squadron 417 claims to be coop-only, but only a couple of maps seem to be impossible in SP mode.

I imagine most mappers don't see much point in ruling out SP mode just for the sheer hell of it - why artificially restrict your audience? If you want to make a map coop-only, it's pretty easy of course - make a switch so far from the area that it temporarily opens up, that the player pressing the switch cannot reach it. Or (heh) make it so the exit can only be reached by one player rocket-jumping off the other.