Episode 5

[Zeratul 982]

I like the episode name. Times like this I wish we had a scanner so I could scan images of some of my map drawings and upload them. Hades' Entrapment, Evil's Eye, Uncharted Depths... Argh...
But what good is that going to do? It's just a bunch of map layouts. Graphite on white paper with different colors of pen dots, and that's it.

[SteelPH]

i have a name for this "new episode" : HellFire!!
please give me ur questions comments, smnart remarks, etc...







(PS: how about a hnew skill level to go with this: the HELL skill level. so we have 5 episodes and 6 skill levels, and only the most hardened DooM Veterans DARE to venture into the world of DooM on the HELL skill level!!!!)

[DiSTuRBeD]

I don't think it should be anything but a pwad with some new textures, music, and levels. The big point would be excessive quality :)

Even the winners of a competition would have to make changes and do lots of work together with beta-testers before the wad got released.

A small list of stuff we need to do:

-Define the theme (almost done)
-Get the new textures done
-Fix up a bunch of judges (compet-n players, level reviewers etc)
-Somehow start a mapping competition
-Name the episode (done?)
-Name all the maps
-Beta-test and give the winning maps some extra work
-Menu art for the episode title, and level titles
-Mail ID, including Carmack and Romero, ask for their blessings over the project before release

Now, THAT would make one helluva kick-ass episode.

I think all the maps should be pretty hard... a bit harder than E4 of course :)

[Zeratul 982]

Maps with an eerie theme like Deimos Lab or Halls of the Damned would be nice. They should include:

-some tricks and traps here and there
-hard to find secrets (but not too hard)
-not too complex areas (50+ sectors in one small room or something similar) I.E. the maps from Momento Mori I and II, The Darkening, Requiem, etc.

[TheHighestTree]

i can make eerie e1m5, map18-style midis if i get inspired. if someone can give me the HTML code to do so, i could put the one I just made (Clawing In The Corridor) on my page for people to <GASP> judge.

[GuntherDW]

can u tell me where to find Momento Mori I and II ? cuz if i search it , it links up with shit or gallery's ?

[Zeratul 982]

Here and here.

[Kid Airbag]

I haven't read the thread to see if this has been suggested yet...but it'd be cool to do sort of a prequel to Hell on Earth...you know...between the time when you get back to earth to when you enter the UAC starport...something like that.

[ChaosOverlord]

I think that dream sequence idea kicks ass... shit, using that as a story levels (textures and all) will only be limited by your imagination... all the textures could be used, not just a specific "style" .. i mean come on, in a dream would anything is pretty much possible.. hey, I know I would love to contribute to a project like this... just make some zany ass levels...

[Kid Airbag]

That dream thing was used in a PSX game...I forget exactly what it was called, but one level had you entering your own brain to fight out the bad things that lived within. It was a pretty cool game...I just don't remember what the fuck its name was.

[Zeratul 982]

Let's not go off-topic now.

[ChaosOverlord]

Hey, I'm serious... that's cool that there's a game like that for PSX, but this is Doom.. I mean, think of it.. the caliber of these maps would be fucking sweet... especially some of the areas, just use some insane looking architecture, and all that good stuff... it would be wicked...

[Kid Airbag]

I like my Doom 2 prequel idea :)

I just think it should be more Doom-related than a trip inside the Doom Guy's brain. More along the actual storyline.

Oh, and Sanatarium (PC) also featured you playing a guy trapped inside his own warped mind.

[ChaosOverlord]

Well, no matter what the theme is going to be, whoever thought of that dream idea is cool, and I'll definately use it for a map if we don't use it for the episode.. which would be fine by me... just tell me a theme and I'll start crackin'...

[Zeratul 982]

Well no one's doing anything yet...at least I think not.

When it comes to the maps itself, just keep the amount of ZDoom/Boom special effects down. I mean deep water, conveyor belts, lighting, and scroll effects are great, but I wouldn't recommend angled walls and flats, horizontal doors, or ambient sound. To me that stuff takes away the Doom-like feel from maps and makes them feel more like Quake or Duke Nukem.

[ChaosOverlord]

Well, I thought this episode wasn't going to be "port specific" anyway.. I thought it was just for plain old vanilla doom... but hey if it's zdoom compatible, I'm all for it.. just makes making maps even funner..

[AirRaid]

I like the dream idea. One of the levels in Mx Payne took place in a dream. Man, that level was freaky. The prequel thing is sensible as well.

[ChaosOverlord]

Yeah, Doom's nightmares must be some very fucked up experiences... I mean shit, his life is a nightmare, so what would he even consider a "nightmare" ..? Shit'd have to be pretty scary to phase Doom... he's hardcore.

[deadnail]

That happens in FF7, when Cloud realizes he's nothing more than a failed clone with someone else's memories tormenting him. That scene is pretty fucked up.

Now that I think back on it FF7 was really good, it just needed a quicker system than Materia, even if they just cut down the amount of AP needed to master the shit. As is its practically fucking rediculous how much time they expect you to devote to it. I wish it was a movie I could just sit back and watch in a few hours... that would be best.

As for Doom's nightmare... surrounded, no way out, no ammo... everything is after him. Hands come from the walls and things you put bullets in GET RIGHT THE HELL BACK UP.

[Zeratul 982]

That sounds more like Resident Evil than Doom.

[ChaosOverlord]

yeah, but considering both games contain zombies it could sound like a lot of different games.. but I dunno, I just can imagine some dreamy looking architecture and shit like that.. man it would be cool... I think we should do this, I swear...

[GooberMan]

Well going by the fact that Carmack has approved of Boom, I'd say we should use Boom for it. On top of that, release it with it's own version of Boom with an option to play episode 5 instead of releasing it as an episode 1 pwad. That'd only take a couple of lines of code here and there, so it'll be easilly implemented in any other source port.
In Thy Nightmare, kewl name :) I'm glad to see the nightmare idea has proved to be popular, and I personally reckon that should be the way to go (and that's not just because I thought of the nightmare idea :P). The prequel to Doom 2 was already done in Thy Flesh Consumed, but still not a bad idea.
As has been pointed out, the nightmare idea does give alot of creative freedom to level designers. Just to further enhance the idea that it really is a nightmare, I suggest that in each map there is at least one section that looks like some architecture from any Doom 1 map, but not quite - sorta all fucked up but eerily familiar.

[GooberMan]

Also, I'll be more than glad to make a web page for the thing. I'll whip one up, post it up, then approach ling for some hosting if everyone likes it.
examples of previous web pages I have made:
Nephron - a friend's band. I need to update the site navigation a bit for it though, as the sub-menu in the upper right hand corner doesn't really catch the eye the way I hoped it would.
Doom - The Arcade Game - side project I'm working on, got a java script menu on the site that emulates the Doom menu (needs work for Netscape Navigator compatibility though). The menu is actually a hacked down version of a more advanced one I wrote which has sub-menus aswell.
The other pages I have made aren't that good or aren't that complete yet.

[DiSTuRBeD]

That's great goob.. make a page.

thehighesttree: E1M5 type music is perfect :) go!

I'm still against the idea of making it for anything but vanilla doom.exe.

What we need to do now is get some textures ready. Absolute top priority! I reckon we need lots of pentagrams, severed limbs, blood etc. It should be in enviroments that are familiar to doomguy somehow... so really really fucked up UAC base sounds good to me. E5m1 would start in doomguys 'bedroom' on the base, with a big pentagram painted in blood on the door, and lots of dead-guy-hanging-from-ceiling sprites.

Who should judge? I nominate Opulent and Lingucia. I'd like to have a say aswell.

[GooberMan]

The page shouldn't take more than a couple of days to get ready. By that time, we should have some concrete idea of what's going on. Until then, I'll design the page with what information is in this thread. We also need to get some sort of organisational heirarchy going.
By the way. skills I can offer are map making, web page maintainer (obviously), I could also play around with the Boom source code (if we choose to use Boom) to include the fifth episode option. I also have very basic graphics skills - my graphics would provide a good template for any decent texture artist.

[NiGHTMARE]

Check out some textures that I think may be suitable for this: http://haunt.8m.com/5th.html

[Naked Snake]

Sounds cool as all hell but didnt someone make a TC that replaced episodes 1-4 with their maps that were supposed to be 5-8?

[GooberMan]

kewlness - first game material done for e5 :)
I'll compile together a small resource wad which includes anything else that may be done by the time the web page is put up, and map authors can download that for use with their E5 maps, as well as any other textures they feel are appropriate.

[Julian]

Do you guys realize there is a project called Freedoom that is in need of both textures and levels. Wouldn't it be more constructive if all the community could unite on such a project? I like the idea of a 5th episode, but I feel like Freedoom has pretty much more potential.

[GooberMan]

The idea for a fifth episode was inspired by the idea of Freedoom - the community coming together to make something that will benefit the community. Check out the first post in this thread to see.
From the response to this thread, IMHO I reckon there's enough support out in the community for both projects. I seriously doubt people will abandon Freedoom because there's a second community project aswell.