Good "slaughter" demos

[Grazza]

OK, suppose I wanted to watch some good slaughter-style demos. What would people recommend?

I'm talking of demos where hundreds of monsters are killed in a relatively short amount of time, but that are good to watch (interesting battles and strategy). Ones that spring to mind are Vile's HR2 map32 demos, Ryback's Seej.wad -fast, Ragnew's HR map24 Maxes. That sort of stuff.

[Opulent]

wow, those are such extreme examples, it is hard to live up to that list.
small suggested list: Hr, Hr2, Hrb, Scythe, AV, MM2, Punishr, Vrack series, some 10sector, Bldnight, d2200ep1, Demonizd, deleted scene 2, dminator, some of the dwsp maps, eaxt, ey601, md, nexus, nuts, oneweek, op_801, phtga, seej, t_dunn02, tantrum2.

[Kristian Ronge]

Also, Ryback's MM 23 -fast, max runs of the same (Drew's in particular), Plutonia map 32 (in pluvdemo.zip by Anders and COMPET-N -- Drew and..?), also -fast (Daniel "Demonlord" Lindgren in fdgmdemo.zip and COMPET-N -- Anders, and..?) plus NM/pacifist demos of pl32 also I guess.

[Kristian Ronge]

Hmm.. Why do you want to know? ;-) Sorry, just got interested 'cause it seemed so mysterious...

[Grazza]

It just seemed an interesting topic to discuss. Nothing special in mind beyond that, though it might generate a good list of recommended viewing for people who like to watch this type of demo.

[Adam Hegyi]

If someone has way too much free time, an interesting stat on these demos is (total monster hitpoints)/(exit time) aka the Punishment per Second rating.

HR2 MAP32 is probably on or near the top. I believe HR MAP25 is on top for maps missing the BFG.

[Erik]

I have a feeling that scythe map26 would be more destructive than even the h232 demos, with 666 monsters including many cybers being killed in 4 minutes (or even faster).

[Grazza]

If the info from STAT.EXE is accurate and I'm interpreting it correctly, then the figures for the total monster hit points for these maps are:
h232: 132140
sc26: 87633

I'm dividing the total ammo by the A/M ratio to get these figures. A few others:
hr22: 23485
hr24: 34498
pl32: 36846
punisher: 45498
seej: 45533

[Erik]

yeah, that would put sc26 far above h232 in terms of damage per second as the h232 demos are around 4-5 times as long.

Uhm, I think those figures are off though by a few miles as they would put the average health of a sc26 monster at 131 or so (there are nothing with less health than a revenant (300hp) in the map iirc).

[Grazza]

Hmm, yes, there's something not right there. I think total health multiplied by the M/H ratio might be accurate though (that gives the right figure for both map01 and map07 of Doom2, so unless they're bizarre coincidences...).

Anyway, on that basis, the figures for the maps I mentioned before are:
h232: 728028
sc26: 346995
hr22: 194287
hr24: 268280
pl32: 227600
punisher: 289428
seej: 342923
Of course, this doesn't take resurrections into account.

[Erik]

That would give the following damage per second ratings for those maps (using the records listed on the DSDA and/or C-N):

h232: 549
sc26: 1886
hr22: 402
hr24: 404
pl32: 1049
punisher: 640
seej: 284

i.e in the sc26 max, Richie kills on average almost half a cyberdemon per second!

Also, these ratings are only valid (and not 100% valid as grazza pointed out) for maxdemos, there might be -respawn, nightmare, -fast, speed or even pacifist demos with faster kill rates.

[Grazza]

Erik said:

there might be -respawn, nightmare, -fast, speed or even pacifist demos with faster kill rates.

Indeed; my Nightmare Pacifist demo on Nuts.wad has a phenomenal rate of death (difficult to say exactly how much though).

Cam's TAS UV -fast on hr24 has a damage per second of 1123 (calculated on the same basis). Given the nature of that run, I'm surprised it's still so far behind sc26.

[Adam Hegyi]

Some more:

E4M2: 324 (488 TAS) - strongest of all id maps
HR25 : 247 (325 TAS) - no BFG

[Ryback]

Nice topic. I can remember after doing AV24 for the Alien Vendetta pack sitting down with a calculator and working out that the 28-min demo had the rough monster damage equivalent of me holding down fire on the plasma rifle the entire length of the demo, every cell striking.

Also I wonder what the demo is with the largest total of monster hit points taken. Doom2 30-level maxkills? Some HR movies? The HR2 TAS?

Some of my favorite slaughter demos:

* Anders HR22 and Esko's HR24 from HRUVLMP2
* The Demonizd TAS demos
* Adam's series of demos for op_801
* Drew's AV18 and eaxt map1

[Schneelocke]

Don't forget AV map26.

[Grazza]

That's one I'd like to calculate, but STAT.EXE chokes part way through AV for some reason (after working out the stats for map21, oddly enough). Are there any other tools that provide the same info?

Anyway, I worked out a few more, for 1337.wad, Deus Vult and oneweek.wad:
1337.wad map07 by Erik (1307-047): 838
1337.wad map08 by Opulent (8_236): 1231
dv.wad map03 by Vile (17:21 - included with the wad): 449
dv.wad map04 by Vile (13:11 - included with the wad): 751
oneweek.wad map11 skill 1 by Erik Alm (27:55): 220
oneweek.wad map11 skill 4 -fast by Ryback (72:17): 96 (OK, not such a large number, but there's well over an hour of it)

Ryback said:

Also I wonder what the demo is with the largest total of monster hit points taken. Doom2 30-level maxkills? Some HR movies? The HR2 TAS?

Cyberdreams has an impressive total, especially with map30 and its 124 cybers that get crushed pretty quickly. Opulent's full HR skill 1 Max must have a big total. For Doom2, the biggest totals will be in the 30uvnet1 and 30fanet1 demos.

Ryback said:

* Adam's series of demos for op_801

Anyone got a link for that wad? The one given here doesn't work.

[Opulent]

http://www.doomworld.com/sda/dwdemo/op_801.zip
good map. =P
excellent demos!

[Schneelocke]

Grazza said:

That's one I'd like to calculate, but STAT.EXE chokes part way through AV for some reason (after working out the stats for map21, oddly enough). Are there any other tools that provide the same info?

If I didn't miscalculate, the total raw HP for all monsters in AV26 on UV is 396320. Not sure what the M/H ratio is, though, so I can't take that into account. ^^

As for tools, I've got a Perl script that dumps monster count stats for WAD files and also calculates the total number of HP. Get it here.

[Schneelocke]

Grazza said:

Anyway, on that basis, the figures for the maps I mentioned before are:
h232: 728028
sc26: 346995
hr22: 194287
hr24: 268280
pl32: 227600
punisher: 289428
seej: 342923
Of course, this doesn't take resurrections into account.

After checking, these figures don't seem to be quite correct. They should be:

h232: 732850
sc26: 347000
hr22: 194290
hr24: 268270
pl32: 139590
punisher: 289420
seej: 342920

Mostly only small differences, though; the only one that seems radically different is pl32. It's worth noting, though, that pl32 has an extra 22 cyberdemons on multiplayer that, when added, give almost exactly the figure above, so you probably erroneously took those into account.

Just some nitpicking. :)

[Grazza]

Rounding errors are to be expected with this method, so there are really just two discrepancies (a small one for h232 and a large one for pl32).

It's weird, STAT.EXE seems to do that sometimes (i.e. include multiplayer-only monsters, even when the /m switch hasn't been used). I'm not sure if there is a pattern to this. Maybe it screws up on iwads?

Yonatan Donner's DMTHA.EXE gives 141600 for pl32, which is fairly similar to your figure.

[Schneelocke]

Grazza said:

It's weird, STAT.EXE seems to do that sometimes (i.e. include multiplayer-only monsters, even when the /m switch hasn't been used). I'm not sure if there is a pattern to this. Maybe it screws up on iwads?

Maybe, but that would still be rather strange - there isn't really any difference between IWADs and PWADs, is there?

[gravitar]

On the tas demo page it says DosDoom 0.47 is needed
for the playback, yet i could only find version 0.653,
will the demos play alright with that ?

[Grazza]

Possibly not. You can get 0.47 here.

[Schneelocke]

gravitar said:

On the tas demo page it says DosDoom 0.47 is needed
for the playback, yet i could only find version 0.653,
will the demos play alright with that ?

Most of the TAS demos play back with prboom with -complevel 3, too.

[gravitar]

Thanks for the info

[Grazza]

Schneelocke said:

Most of the TAS demos play back with prboom with -complevel 3, too.

Note that that is for Prboom experimental 2.3.0, and not Prboom stable 2.2.4.

[Schneelocke]

Grazza said:

Note that that is for Prboom experimental 2.3.0, and not Prboom stable 2.2.4.

Yup, that's true. I should've mentioned that (but I'm so used to using 2.3.0 more or less exclusively)...