Kama Sutra Demopack [Released!]

[Kristian Ronge]

I looked at map 31 some weeks back and found 2 possible(?) shortcuts, but they are very hard:

• AV jump from the pool with the megasphere in the first area (effectively skipping the red/yellow key). The difference in height is significant, but it looks possible (perhaps a double-blast?).
  
• Running "through" the blue key room, towards the blue key door, avoiding getting trapped by the lowering bars. This is possible if you avoid triggering the first linedef and use strafe-50. I have done it once in nomo, but it is extremely hard.
  

If someone can get these two tricks to work in one run (that'd be a miracle) then the UV speed time should be less than 0:30... This is from the top of my head, though, there might be problems with these shortcuts that I've forgotten.

As Grazza said, (he probably thought of these two) they're not very realistic outside of TAS.

[Anima Zero]

I haven't done a Nightmare demo for a while now, so I decided to follow up Grazza's map12 NM run with one of my own for map12, a NM100S. Time is 2:18. Can easily be improved (I'd think a 2:0x or lower is reachable).

Sending to Ops now.

[Opulent]

Anima: http://www.doomworld.com/sda/dwdemo/kn12-218.zip

[Grazza]

Anima Zero said:

map12, a NM100S.

Nice and chaotic. :)

I noticed one trick that could speed this up a lot, but unfortunately it seems (to me, at least) to be very difficult indeed. You can jump to the "furnace" window (the one with the arrow pointing to it) from near the red key. This means you can pistol the barrels and then reach the secret area without having to wait for the cyber to teleport in (which means you don't need to wait for the slow bars to lower, etc.). The other secrets can all be visited quickly, of course.

However, I have only landed this particular jump once in total, and even if you got it first time in a NM100S run, the survival chances might be poor (imps and cacos close in fast). You'd want the barrels to have done a really good job of killing the imps.

It's not worth trying unless you can achieve a good success rate with the jump, but could make for a nice quick TAS demo (including the jump from the blue armour secret too).

Kristian Ronge said:

As Grazza said, (he probably thought of these two) they're not very realistic outside of TAS.

Yes, though I hadn't verified either of them (I haven't done the multi-archie jump even with godmode).

[Angus Thermopyle]

I have another speedrun on Map31, but it's damn ugly (missed the blue key once). Almost the same route, no shortcuts, but more aggressive playing. Time is 2:52. I'll try a better one tomorrow.

[Grazza]

I recorded a little demo to demonstrate the two tricks I mentioned in my previous post:
map12 -nomonsters with 100% secrets in 0:50.
It features the jump into the furnace and the jump from the blue armour secret into the exit area (both at the second attempt, unfortunately).

[Angus Thermopyle]

I did Map31 UV Speed (normal exit) in 2:44 (will send it to Opulent and Gusta).

It's not as ugly as my yesterday's demo, but some annoying mistakes are included. On the other hand it's hard for me to do a flawless run when I play so aggressive, so it should be ok.

I don't know if I'll have enough time for another demo this week, but next stop is the secret exit run on this map of course.

[Gusta]

In map31, I guess an AVjump over the metal platforms into an exit area should be possible. At least I noticed there is enough vertical space for it.

Btw. When a time for it comes, will be anyone interested to organize putting the whole pack together? Dobber is out.. nobody knows anything about him. And I have to say (sadly..) me and Method are rather unreliable for it as we don't manage to maintain something like ksutra-n.

[Kristian Ronge]

Hello all,

I did map 20 UV speed in 0:56.
Took quite some time, this...

I also investigated the AV jump there, that Jochen mentioned, but I found it much too hard and unreliable. :-(

Gusta: I'm sure someone here could assemble the pack, if need be!

[Opulent]

Angus:
http://www.doomworld.com/sda/dwdemo/ks31-244.zip

[Grazza]

Anima Zero said in ks15s056.txt:
Time-wise, I think this is getting closer and closer to the optimal time. Perhaps something like :53 or less? Give it a shot.

OK... Map15 (Miss Sporty) UV Speed (secret exit) in 0:52.
The only route change is near the exit - this method saves a few seconds and requires less health. This demo is not exactly smooth (check out the great rev bump near the start), so significant improvements should be feasible.

[Kristian Ronge]

Nice run!

One comment, though. Your .txt says: "A further (small) route improvement would be to skip the first soulsphere - sometimes the archie encounter doesn't cost you much health at all."

As you may know, my ks15s059.lmp does skip this first soulsphere. I found that you could often get away with it -- it seems the Hell Knight hits the imps behind you, and they fight it out while you take care of the Arch-Vile.

EDIT: I forgot to add that I once managed to squeeze by/get blasted by (cannot remember which, as this was some time ago) the Arch-Vile. It's a great stunt, but it doesn't save any time, as you then have to pass it again later on anyway.

[Grazza]

Kristian Ronge said:

As you may know, my ks15s059.lmp does skip this first soulsphere.

Yes, I realized that afterwards (so if anyone uses that idea, it is you who deserves credit).

On reflection, I'm also not sure if it is a route improvement, since the archie will be killed most quickly if it takes a lot of splash damage from a few archie blasts (both its own and from the other archie). The extra health will be useful if the player is to survive those blasts.

I forgot to add that I once managed to squeeze by/get blasted by (cannot remember which, as this was some time ago) the Arch-Vile. It's a great stunt, but it doesn't save any time, as you then have to pass it again later on anyway.

Perhaps the optimal route is to squeeze past both the archie and the hell-knight (in both directions). But that is surely taking it out of the realms of what is realistic in practice.

Regarding the as yet undone normal exit map15 speedrun, I notice that the blue key door only requires the key on one side. However, as far as I can tell, none of monsters that have access to the "wrong" side of that door are capable of opening it. Does your research into this phenomenon suggest otherwise? It would be a neat trick and make that run quite fast.

[Kristian Ronge]

Grazza said:
Does your research into this phenomenon suggest otherwise?

Well, my "research" suggests that the only monsters that reliably (and consistently) can open doors from the "wrong" side in normal UV playing are: demons, spectres, revenants, and (surprisingly!) cyberdemons.

About the blue key door: Well, the other side doesn't need a key, but OTOH it's not tagged as a door, either... ;-)

So it's (sadly) quite impossible to get a monster to open it from the "wrong" side.

[Grazza]

Kristian Ronge said:

About the blue key door: Well, the other side doesn't need a key, but OTOH it's not tagged as a door, either... ;-)

Well that f***s that little theory. :p (Serves me right for being lazy and just looking at the colour-coding in Prboom's automap.)

So no shortcuts - all three keys needed? :( Still, it's not like it's a long or tedious run even then. A ks speedrun without a trick just seems kind of wrong though.

[Anima Zero]

I decided to do another map15 UV-Speed today. This time, I took the normal exit, which means getting all 3 keys. Time for it is 2:56. Demo's ok, but there a few spots where I get caught on monsters/scenery. Time could easily go into the low 2:5x range, perhaps less. Nearly got maimed in the YK room (4% health...lost souls are evil >_<!).

Sending to Ops now.

[Kristian Ronge]

That time sounds suspiciously high... are you aware that you can do the last shoot-out sequence -- "west game" -- in just a second or two? (use SSG, aim for the red upside-down cross just above the soulsphere) Considering you're lucky with the spread of the SSG, that is.

[Anima Zero]

Kristian Ronge said:

That time sounds suspiciously high... are you aware that you can do the last shoot-out sequence -- "west game" -- in just a second or two? (use SSG, aim for the red upside-down cross just above the soulsphere) Considering you're lucky with the spread of the SSG, that is.

Dear god you're right! I never knew that >_<. *Kick-filps self and bangs head on desk too*

Well...off to try again ^_^.

EDIT: Booya! Only 10 minutes to get this. Started with a 2:09, but didn't really like how it turned out. Couple more attempts and well, this came. Got a time of 1:57. Pretty happy with how it turned out (my run back from getting the RSK...wow, monster cooperation at its best ^_^), save for a couple parts (Needed an extra attempt at the jump to the Megasphere secret thanks to the PE, and needed 4 attempts with the SSG to hit the cross at the end). A low 1:5x should be possible.

Sending to Ops now.

[Grazza]

Anima Zero said:

needed 4 attempts with the SSG to hit the cross at the end

If you step backwards onto the slightly higher ground and lean up against the object in the corner, you should hit it more often than not.

[Opulent]

Anima:
http://www.doomworld.com/sda/dwdemo/ks15-157.zip
http://www.doomworld.com/sda/dwdemo/ks15-256.zip

[Gusta]

Eh.. I haven´t known that blue-key door doesn§t need a key from a wrong side. I am sorry that I haven´t made any possibility for this kind of trick there. It would be cool there. But it seems that Mr. Anima doesn§t need the trick to do a good time on that map! Now the missing are 24,29 and 31secret exit.

[Anima Zero]

Improved my map15 UV-Speed normal exit run. Knocked off 17 seconds, making the new time 1:40. Still could be improved as my run back from getting the RSK wasn't the best.

Sending to Ops now.

[Grazza]

Anima Zero said:

Improved my map15 UV-Speed normal exit run. Knocked off 17 seconds, making the new time 1:40.

Funny, I'd had 1:40 in mind as a really good time for this one. BTW, I think this is one of those runs where you don't realize how difficult it is until you've tried it - that segment in the shower room and pool really takes some gutsy play, and coming back from the blue key can be mayhem too.

[Opulent]

http://www.doomworld.com/sda/dwdemo/ks15-140.zip

[Grazza]

One more pacifist slot filled:
Map01 (Into the Underground) UV Pacifist in 0:55.
Not difficult, but there's an annoying amount of waiting around for stuff to move out of the way.

[Grazza]

I thought I'd tidy up another Pacifist:
Map02 (The Hidden Generator) UV Pacifist in 0:05.
This now equals the UV Speed time, which is what you'd expect given that the only reason to fire is to wake the monsters up.

[Anima Zero]

ragnew said:

Thanks! Yeah, 13:30 or under would be really cool to see, though, I don't think I'll be the one to try it.. :)

Alrighty then. Boredom + watching old map31 demos= Me feeling like tackling this map again. Took a few hours, but I got it under 13:30. Improved UV-Max for map31 in 13:23. Did have some minor mess-ups in the 2nd half of the run, including the need to go back and look for stragglers, as I missed 2 of them. Found them fairly quick though, so no major time loss (5-6 seconds I think...).

Sub-13? Well, I don't think I'll be the one to try that ^_^. Though that means someone else is probably going to plot to beat down this time soon, heh :).

Sending to Ops now.

[Opulent]

very cool: http://www.doomworld.com/sda/dwdemo/ks311323.zip

[Anima Zero]

Just wondering: Think we should wrap this up within the next week or so, given most everything is complete now? I'd imagine it's that time now to do so (such as author/map comments, and so on).

[Grazza]

Yes, I was thinking that, given that things are winding down somewhat. I'll offer to pack it up.

I'll create tables in the main categories so everyone knows what is currently in line to be in the pack.

I'd suggest that any improved or new demos should come in within the next week, and all text comments (general pack comments and specific demos comments) within ten days from now. I propose the pack shall be released on 21 June (midsummers/midwinters day) even if this means having "none received" in the text-file in a few places.