Scythe2 Demos

[Belial]

Hey, I wanted to upload that 0:26 :)

No matter, after a few hundred more tries I finally got a 0:25. The hell knight screw up took a sec away :(.

I've switched to prboom and over the last few days I've had probably something near a thousand attempts at map03 and map04 each.

0:57 for map03 speed.

I've also tried map02 and got a 0:37 on the 2nd exit.

Edit: For the table: my map01 ZDoom time is 0:28, not 0:26.

[Opulent]

http://www.doomworld.com/sda/dwdemo/s204-025belial.zip
http://www.doomworld.com/sda/dwdemo/s203-057belial.zip
http://www.doomworld.com/sda/dwdemo/s202-037belial.zip

[Schneelocke]

Belial said:

Edit: For the table: my map01 ZDoom time is 0:28, not 0:26.

Thanks, fixed. :)

[DomRem]

Gusta said:

It would be good to say that Method has map01 in 1:18 max and 0:25 speed (which was already released) ...

Heh, not so fast. :) I just recorded a 0:24 UV Speed on Map01 yesterday; I'm sending it to Opulent now. It took loads of luck (and time) but after a while I finally managed to get a good run off.

[Opulent]

http://www.doomworld.com/sda/dwdemo/s201-024DomRem.zip

cool.
edit: Hadn't watched it when I posted this. Please remember to make a note in the textfile when the demo is tool-assisted. Thanks.

[Gusta]

eh..TAS speed sucks. Method would beat it without an assistance imo. I recorded map06 tyson in 1:03. Had also some goes on map12 but haven't got luck to get a 100%kills run. I will maybe try map23 again ... my best run so far ended in room with 5 archies revenants and hell knights...there is terrible lack of health :)

[Gusta]

Oh, tiny mistake in the table :) map26 pacifist in 1:09 was Anima's I think. Another unreleased time was 2:17 max for map13 by mr.method :)))) (don't hide it man :) ... and our coop runs for maps 1,5,11,19,21 mentioned on page 7.

[Schneelocke]

Gusta said:

Oh, tiny mistake in the table :) map26 pacifist in 1:09 was Anima's I think. Another unreleased time was 2:17 max for map13 by mr.method :)))) (don't hide it man :) ... and our coop runs for maps 1,5,11,19,21 mentioned on page 7.

Thanks, fixed and added. :) The coop demos aren't published yet, are they? Also: is the map22 coop demo speed or max? Considering that the single-player maxdemo by Anima is 6:56, 2:52 seems very short for a 2-player coop max run (although I certainly think that you and Method have the skill to pull of a time like that :)).

I'm kinda thinking about putting the coop demos into their own table, as the current table's pretty big (that is, wide) even in 1280x1024 by now, and would grow even more if another coop category was added. Good idea, or should I just use a smaller font size?

As for the 0:24 for map01... is that definitely a TAS demo now? I've marked it as such, but an acknowledgement from DomRem would be nice. ^_~

[Kristian Ronge]

Schneelocke said:
As for the 0:24 for map01... is that definitely a TAS demo now? I've marked it as such, but an acknowledgement from DomRem would be nice. ^_~

It's obviously done with slow-motion, so yes, it's TAS. I sincerely hope this was merely a misunderstanding/oversight, and not an attempt to pass it off as unassisted.

[Opulent]

Gusta:
http://www.doomworld.com/sda/dwdemo/s206t103.zip

[DomRem]

Oh no. Well, I can certainly understand the suspiciousness of this shown by everyone, considering I have never shown interest in speedrunning on these forums before, and instead came from nowhere and submitted a demo.

However, I'll still tell you the truth: it wasn't tool-assisted. I realize I'm outnumbered here, but that doesn't matter. I won't stay here and try to fight it out, though. I know it wasn't TAS, but if others believe that it is, let them. I have no evidence I didn't use slow motion, but I know I didn't, and at the risk of sounding vain, I know it was a good demo(enough to beat out Method), but why should I be accused of TAS because of something like that?

What can I say, all I have to defend me is my own word, and under most circumstances, that isn't enough. Naturally, it's only normal to reply to a reaction like this, seeing as I didn't want to sit back and watch my demo (which I attempted constantly for a good two days) be labeled tool-assisted.

So, that's all I have to say. If you don't believe me, go ahead and mark it TAS if you like. As for me, I figured tool-assisted demos weren't even allowed for something like this, and after praticing the map for a good couple of weeks, I just decided to try to accomplish something, seeing as Belial only got me into speedrunning recently, and I love Scythe 2. I'm still hoping you'll give me the benefit of the doubt, though.

[Schneelocke]

DomRem said:

As for me, I figured tool-assisted demos weren't even allowed for something like this [...]

Why wouldn't they? :) There's a saying among Perl programmers that "all's fair if you predeclare". :)

Anyhow, I'm going to stay out of this myself - I lack the experience to form an opinion of my own, so all I can say is that *if* the demo is TAS, then people aren't going to be angry at you for that. TAS demos are perfectly acceptable if they're labelled as such.

[Grazza]

It looked like a TAS demo (shakiness and sharp turns). Opulent, Kristian and I all felt this was pretty clear. (I had discussed this demo with Opulent before he edited his initial post, and I presume Kristian reached his conclusion independently.) Remember we have all watched a lot of TAS and non-TAS demos, and are familiar with the differences in the way they tend to look.

Some tell-tale signs of slowmotion usage are revealed by a tic-by-tic analysis using MBFLMPC.

Schneelocke said:

TAS demos are perfectly acceptable if they're labelled as such.

That pretty much sums it up (though of course they have no place in a non-TAS demopack). See also this post.

[Opulent]

I didn't make my decision quickly.
I watched the demo several times. The shakiness and single-use gametics are not damning evidence, but they helped me reach my decision.
I know it sounds bad to be called on tools-assisted recording, but such a demo from a player without previous demos, whose time supplants an established demo, and whose demo was not recorded with the real game just leaves too much suspicion.

If stx-Vile had sent me this demo, I would have taken it as real, but mentioned that it looked questionable. Please submit more, so we see that this is your norm.
This thread and this forum are about playing DOOM and having fun. I enjoyed this demo and would love to see more from you.

[Erik]

I am not 100% convinced that it's TAS, but I agree that it does look kind of unusual and suspicious. I wouldn't include this demo in any kind of non-TAS pack for now.

Great demos lately btw, I am watching every single one =)

[Opulent]

Belial:
http://www.doomworld.com/sda/dwdemo/s211-025bb.zip

[Opulent]

DomRem sent me some other demos... I haven't posted them here, because I'm not sure he would want me to.
First off, most of the demos feature his strange movement style... after seeing the other demos then watching this one again, I can confirm that this is normal for his movement.
Second, several of the other demos feature single-use gametics, which is weird(and often untrustworthy when playing) but not concrete enough proof of wrong-doing. (besides, any good cheater would know better :)
Gameplay differences and what is 'normal' is warped since we don't use the real game. As with most games, it is impossible to be 100% sure of cheating -- anyone who has played a more current FPS game knows just what I mean. There were many reasons why I believed his demos might have been tools-assisted (some of which I will not share here), but let me apologize for what I now believe was a falsely-justified cheating accusation.
I now think his demos are legitimate.
DomRem, please contribute more.

We are such a small community, I would greatly prefer that we got along well and trusted each other.
Please accept my apology.

[DomRem]

Thanks much, Opulent. I don't really think an apology is necessary here, as I can understand why my demo would seem so suspicious in such circumstances.

Although my movement is quite unusual compared to everyone else, I'm happy to know that my demos will be trusted in the future.

(By the way, I wouldn't have minded if you had posted those demos, even though some of them (namely E4M6) are pretty bad. :))

[Gusta]

Schneelocke: The coop maxrun in 2:52 we did for map21 not map22. The maxrecord for that map is 3:19 and it's held by ... heh me.
I made two more crappy pacifists for map21 (0:44) and map09 (0:24). map21 will be improved easily but map09 ... Grazza I doubt about 18 or 9 seconds run there :)))
I personally haven't seen domrem's demo yet I am pretty curious how the demo really looks.

[Gusta]

Heh another mistake in the table (I have already found three, yay :)))
s209-256 was done by me, the zipfile even had my name there :)))

[Schneelocke]

Thanks, all fixed. Meh, I wonder how these mistakes keep creeping in. >_>

[Opulent]

DomRem:
http://www.doomworld.com/sda/dwdemo/s211-024dr.zip

[Opulent]

another DomRem:
http://www.doomworld.com/sda/dwdemo/s207-016dr.zip

[Schneelocke]

Nice jump. :)

[Gusta]

Wow, I thought this jump is impossible. Still I can't do it, haven't made it in 100 tries :(
Just yesterday I saw nice rocketjump on map03, very good work I have to say!

[ducon]

Opulent said:

another DomRem:
http://www.doomworld.com/sda/dwdemo/s207-016dr.zip

I can’t play it with prboom. :-(

[Schneelocke]

ducon said:

I can’t play it with prboom. :-(

Works For Me(tm) (using PrBoom 2.3.1). Try specifying a different -complevel?

[ducon]

Gah, I was using --playdemo instead of -playdemo… so the demo played in map11.

[Anima Zero]

Gee, almost another month went by without a word from me :). Not anymore, since I did 2 demos, both for map13.

First is a UV-Pacifist in 1:16. I still couldn't grab the YK early like I hoped, so I had to resort to a different plan to get to the switch to lower platform with said YK on it. Worked out very nicely. Rest of run went ok. Still plenty of room for improvements.

After that, having a UV-Pacifist time that is faster than my UV-Speed on this level didn't sit right with me, so I did an improved UV-Speed. Knocked off 14 seconds to make the time a nice 1:04. I got lucky in the first half of the run since I took no damage until the 1st archie by the soulsphere. Very nice run IMO. Probably won't try to improve this anytime soon.

Sending both demos to Ops now.

[Schneelocke]

Cool, looking forward to those. :)