Knowledge of the inner Doom

[999cop]

This is just a quick doom review thread. For those of you who don't know what strafe50 or wallrun is, here's a reminder to those people.

THE STRAFE RUN (Strafe 50)
Sometimes referred to as the diagonal run, the strafe run is an essential technique and one reason why you must define separate left and right strafe keys. The trick is to master holding one of the strafe keys down while running forward. As a result, you will run at about a 45-degree angle rather than the direction you're facing (this takes some getting used to). Another result (this is the cool part) is that you will travel roughly 50% faster, actually 44% for you math majors, than by normal running. A player who understands how to strafe run will enjoy a significant advantage against a player who doesn't.

THE WALL RUN
One of the buggiest of the Doom bugs. By strafe running along a wall from South to North (North is up on the map), you can achieve a speed best described as ridiculous. Wall running is allegedly 300% faster than strafe-running, which is 44% faster than running, which would be, um,...well, you get the idea. It's fast.

[Sephiroth]

i have long noticed the original "wall run", but i rarely use the strafe run. one other important feature u skiped was circle strafe, make killing doom badies easy even the cyber demon. also if speed is important turn the turbo to 250 "green is turbo"

[xit-vono]

strafe 50 is not as simple as that. To get strafe 50, you have to use the strafe on button, a turn arrow and a seperate strafe button, or the strafe on button and the mouse. Any other method of strafing will only get you strafe 40, oh and it's 41% faster, not 44% faster for strafe 50.

[Crendowing]

Fah, I've noticed the wall run thing. As for the strafe run thing, I go fast enough doing the technique Sephrioth mentioned.

[Lüt]

Heh, I was playing multiplayer Hexen and I used the wall run in the fire map where the bridge crumbles, and the other guy quit and accused me of using turbo cheats before I explained to him how to do it :P

[999cop]

strafe 50 is not as simple as that. To get strafe 50, you have to use the strafe on button, a turn arrow and a seperate strafe button, or the strafe on button and the mouse. Any other method of strafing will only get you strafe 40, oh and it's 41% faster, not 44% faster for strafe 50.

Actually, yeah i know that. I just copied that from a doom deathmatch guide :) Anyways, yes you need to use a strafe on button with a turn arrow and a seperate strafe button. According to my controls (e as forward, d as backward, s as strafe left, f as strafe right, r as turn right, ctrl as turn left, and mouse2 as stepstrafe), so when I do strafe50 to the left, I have to use the buttons "e"(forward)[use "w" when I go backward], "r"(turn left), and "s"(strafe left); when I do strafe50 to the right, I have to use the buttons "e"(forward)[use "w" when I go backward],"f"(strafe right), and "ctrl"(turn right). Guess that's much about all.

Heh, I was playing multiplayer Hexen and I used the wall run in the fire map where the bridge crumbles, and the other guy quit and accused me of using turbo cheats before I explained to him how to do it :P

lol

[ReX]

THE WALL RUN

Perfect reason to build a map without long, straight walls that run North to South ;)

[Lüt]

THE WALL RUN

Perfect reason to build a map without long, straight walls that run North to South ;)

Are you insulting my Sewers map?

[Zaldron]

Same shit happens in BUILD...

[AngelOfDeath]

Build's a Damn Ripoff

[Zaldron]

BUILD beats DooM's engine in every imaginable way.

[Katarhyne]

I dunno, Zaldron. I never was impressed by BUILD's lighting. Dunno why. ::shrugs:: Maybe it's the way it was used in the games (I've played EVERY BUILD game, too)

[AngelOfDeath]

If it wasnt for doom there wouild be no build

[deadnail]

Well that's probably because build.exe and mapedit.exe are horrid pieces of shit and are a pain in the ass to use for fine detail unlike many of the fine Doom editors.

When you compare release games though, Doom did make better use of lighting... but then again, Doom was going for spooky at it's time while Duke was going for action.

[Zaldron]

You can do a lot more with BUILD's lighting. It has everything DooM has and much more, including colored lighting.

The problem is exactly what deadnail's saying, there's no fucking way to take advantage of this because the editor sucks an ungodly large amount of suckyness.

[dr_st]

Another possibly bad thing in the build engine is that it allows you too much flexibility (for example, you can mess with sprites, stretch them and do all kinds of things to them, which are usually very ugly). As a result there are much more hideous levels than there were in DOOM, and very few good levels. Most levels are stuck somewhere in between, boring and confusing. I guess the editor's terrible suckyness, which I've also noticed, despite playing with it for 5 minutes tops, is a major reason to that.

I got the feeling that the Build engine and its features were made just to make the original levels which shipped with the Build games as good as possible, without much thought of what use it's gonna have for home-made levels.

And if talking about Build, once again I ask: anyone knows how they did that sector overlapping shit in Duke3D E2L11 (Lunatic Fringe)?

[Linguica]

Build is a MUCH better engine than Doom. It's faster, it has more features, it allows you to do more cool stuff... however, whenever I play a Build engine game I get queasy, probably because it's too goddamn smooth. Oh well.

[xit-vono]

Here's a couple of more advanced tricks that I will add. They are arch-vile jump and rocket jump.

arch-vile jump: This is pretty much self explanitory. Just run up to the platform you want to land on and the arch-vile will give you a boost upward. You have to also take into account that arch-viles will push you away from them, so if you are doing a jump sideways from the direction of the arch-vile, then you should either be running at an angle towards it or you should come in at an angle. Arch vile jumps are very rare in Doom2, but if you play TNT: evilution, you can use the archvile to get the megasphere in map11.

rocket jump: This is nothing like the kind of quake jumps where you can jump up huge distances(for example in e1m3 in quake you can jump from the gold key to the gold door.) In doom you can only use rockets to push you to go faster so that you can jump farther. The classic example is e2m7, where you can push yourself off the wall and jump straight to the exit room. A much simpler task would be e1m4 where you don't have to raise the platform near the exit.

[Sephiroth]

colored lighting in build looked like shit. though i agree build had many good advantages. however they where mostly simple things, like room over room, slants, and under/over spirits. things it did not have over doom was destroyable objects, doom had these they where called barrels, and shootable switches. I have seen people creativly give doom other destroyable objects. Also duke3d never really had true room over room, they used cheap tricks such as spirits and other fake effects. however later build games did use room over room. also it was a bit buggy, try no clipping in duke it just dont work.
a engine i have heard people say that is better than dooms is ROTT's, that engine was complete shit, nothing more than a upgraded wolf3d port, however the game was fun

[Ralphis`]

All the techniques you explained are easy on my configuration. I move, aim, shoot with my mouse. Move forward with my up arrow. and strafe with the left and right arrows. It's a pretty unique config.

[dr_st]

I don't think it's unique. It's probably the most common config in all those bloody modern 3D shooters where you can't aim right without a mouse: Move with the arrow keys, turn with the mouse. (Max Payne's default for example - curse this game and this config) Other functions like shoot, use, jump are more individual.

My standard is keyboard only, mostly based on the DOOM / Build games classic config. Again, curse these new shooters where you can't aim without a mouse. Bloody programmers...

[deathz0r]

If it wasnt for doom there wouild be no build

wrong. build was first started in april 1993. here is proof.

[Zaldron]

I don't think it's unique. It's probably the most common config in all those bloody modern 3D shooters where you can't aim right without a mouse:

I laugh at you. Really hard.


Well, yes Sephirot, the colored lighting looked bad, but what were you expecting? It's a friggin indexed-pallete game. Each "color theme" had from 16 to 24 tones, so you can't do Unrealesque stuff.

And Ling's right, for some odd reason BUILD doesn't feel right when you move. Duke3d had this problem mostly because of the lack of proper head bobbing (altough Blood made an excellent effort in this aspect). I think that oddness comes from the weird FOV. BUILD had more freedom than DooM regarding view angles, but the calculations got a lot more stupid...