Berserk in Legacy

[vomited_anal_tract]

Berserk is my favourite weapon. I used to think that in The Shores Of Hell there was such a little amount of ammo. But after discovering that every level contained a berserk pack, I found myself with 100 shells in the first couple of levels. The chainsaw is also an important weapon.

Legacy is fucked up because when you try to use the chainsaw, you slide all over the place. I'm no programmer, but punching and chainsawing suck in Legacy. And this is important because I'm somebody who boxes Revenants, Barons, and even Arch Viles.

[Mordeth]

Don't use Legacy..?

[Jello]

Yeah, I'd recommend not using Legacy. The added blood sprites are cool, but that's about all Legacy has going for it. Use zdoom, or Jdoom, or Edge if you want decent doom gameplay. I used legacy for about 10 minutes on vanilla doom2, and stopped. Unless a level is Legacy specific (and I really can't think of any that are) use a different port. Although I've always found the chainsaw rather odd to use. Sometimes I'm a madman with it, other times I can't keep a demon centered enough to use it. It jumps around alot, even in vanilla doom, it takes a trained hand to use it right, and sometimes I don't have that. But when I can get it to work well with me, it's a great weapon. It's great for single zombie men, imps, demons, and cacodemons. However I love the berserk fists, far more than the chainsaw. If I'm fighting a single baron and I have a berserk pack, I'll use it. I think the only monsters I haven't berserked at this point are the Cyber and the Spider Mastermind. I have however killed a cyber with a pistol, on a co-op game. That's a very satisfying feeling.

[myk]

vomited_anal_tract said:
Legacy is fucked up because when you try to use the chainsaw, you slide all over the place. I'm no programmer, but punching and chainsawing suck in Legacy. And this is important because I'm somebody who boxes Revenants, Barons, and even Arch Viles.

No matter, use it anyway; it's your civic obligation to the Legacy. You should know by now that those who don't follow the Legacy are inferior, and must be destroyed without mercy. Beware straying from the path.

[jetflock]

don't just stomp it into the ground like that. use whatever one feels best for you. i prefer legacy, being seasoned and all, but if you want something more mainstream, use something else.
its the underdog. don't just shit on other people's work because its not your bag.

[VinceDSS]

I do like the way Legacy feels when playing. The flaws mentionned are indeed annoying sometimes. Being old school, I feel more comfortable with Legacy, its mouse and moves feel more natural to me than zDoom, jDoom and the such.

but most of the times I use prboom or even the vanilla EXEs.

[Grazza]

Berserking and chainsawing seem pretty similar in Legacy to the way they were in the original games to me. What are you comparing with when you call it "shitty"? Are you aware that Zdoom changes the melee weapons' functionality in quite a major way (this change occurred in 2.0.51)?

[Graf Zahl]

Grazza said:

Berserking and chainsawing seem pretty similar in Legacy to the way they were in the original games to me. What are you comparing with when you call it "shitty"? Are you aware that Zdoom changes the melee weapons' functionality in quite a major way (this change occurred in 2.0.51)?

But it's much better now. I know that many ZDoom users much appreciated this particular change. It was typical Doom crap without any usefulness that had some negative impact on the game. I certainly don't miss the old handling and every time I use a different engine now it feels quite buggy and inconsistent.

After all ZDoom is more interested in a consistent gaming environment than in flawless recreation of all the more or less annoying quirks of the original.

[myk]

"Consistency" with...? I tried ZDoom recently, thinking perhaps I could use it to play Hexen with someone that doesn't have Windows 9x, and the movement, especially after attacking with the Warrior, felt weird to me (not to mention other awkward settings, quirks, and bugs.)

But any good player knows that the quirks of the game make it the game; it's not about some sort of instant ease of use, but about technical proficiency with the game. Feature happy mappers' source hacks aren't made with that in mind, though.

I'd say the "sliding" effect of the Chainsaw kicks ass, also balancing out the weapon: be careful or else get stuck on a monster or slide sideways as you try to hit it, and get your ass chomped off.

[Graf Zahl]

myk said:

"Consistency" with...? I tried ZDoom recently, thinking perhaps I could use it to play Hexen with someone that doesn't have Windows 9x, and the movement, especially after attacking with the Warrior, felt weird to me (not to mention other awkward settings, quirks, and bugs.)

So you complain about quirks as well. Just others. ZDoom is simply not made for people like you so your opinion about it doesn't count! :P

But any good player knows that the quirks of the game make it the game;

Not if these quirks are clearly bugs that manifest themselves only in certain situations. Then they become annoying

it's not about some sort of instant ease of use, but about technical proficiency with the game. Feature happy mappers' source hacks aren't made with that in mind, though.

The hardcore fundamentalist is speaking again. I thought we left the 'source hack' business behind. Sadly not it seems... :(

I'd say the "sliding" effect of the Chainsaw kicks ass, also balancing out the weapon: be careful or else get stuck on a monster or slide sideways as you try to hit it, and get your ass chomped off.

I always found the chainsaw close to unusable in Doom. Only after this particular change it became a weapon I found comfortable to use.

[myk]

Graf Zahl said:
So you complain about quirks as well. Just others.

Yeah, I'm not attacking the fact that you prefer something over another thing. Like other things, ZDoom fills in a demanded niche here and contributes to the activity here, and that's great to me.

ZDoom is simply not made for people like you so your opinion about it doesn't count! :P

Ah, but see how clearly I mentioned it as my opinion. It's similar to when we say please and thanks and use other modes of speech that allow us to state our differences without having to shit on others'.

The hardcore fundamentalist is speaking again.

That's actually a good definition; hardcore in regard to game functionality (the player-type user, you could say my Romero side), relatedly fundamental in respect to design (minimalism and purism, sort of like Carmack's coding initiative.)

I thought we left the 'source hack' business behind. Sadly not it seems... :(

Curiously, I really like hacks, for instance patched engines backwards engineered like Doom with DeHackEd patches or Budko's limits cracks. And all Doom modifications work over a defined base that they change and add to, and are different from many other projects that are more "original". While all code is a rewriting and reuse is inherently natural, not everything has a specific base and usage. Heh, and don't complain about my wording, when you use "crap" for this, "better" for that, while phrasing everything in a rude objectivist way, and using other such partisan speak, as is your wont. You had to step in to "defend" ZDoom when someone pointed out how Legacy's melee attacks are "shitty"; why advertize when Grazza didn't even attack it? Isn't it quite relevant to the discussion that Legacy's behavior is more or less the basic Doom functionality, and that it's not even something specific to Legacy?

All's fair if you prefer ZDoom's functionality like vomited_anal_tract seems to (or whatever engine he's comparing Legacy to) with the reasons you might have, but since this is a place with many opinions, what we say, when, and how, does make a difference in defining it either as a place where we discuss our differences without much friction, or merely call each other names.

[Ezxariarch]

Doom legacy was the first port I ever used. It used to be my favorite because I could go coop with my cousin on the same computer......Too bad all the updates just seems to make it worse and worse.

[abysmal]

E2M2 low on ammo I picked up a berserk but after it should have long worn off I could still shatter imps in 1 punch. Saved my game with it but dont like cheating so I restarted the episode. Same thing, permanent beserk.

Well besides Doom95 my first GLport was Legacy, it was smooth with great graphics. I liked the way it handled.
The chainsaw does act a little funny, but I learned to work with it. I will beat E2 with only shells and clips so I use the chainsaw alot to save ammo, since my fist is on permanent berserk.

You need to balance it, it is pretty easy getting the hang of it. If it slides one way, use arrow the other way. Simple. I never use a mouse either, unless im online. If your using a mouse to aim that might be harder to hold a chainsaw straight.

Since everyones on about ports...Doomsday has the best graphics and effects. But the motion feels odd, fluid but vey odd. Doesnt feel like doom.
zDoom feels like doom with OK graphics, but enemies far away look horrible.
Chocolate plays/feels great but I want better graphics.
I still use Legacy feels like doom with excellent graphics, except for those flashing holes in wall and blood spatters. Has the best launcher I say.

[myk]

abysmal said:
E2M2 low on ammo I picked up a berserk but after it should have long worn off I could still shatter imps in 1 punch. Saved my game with it but dont like cheating so I restarted the episode. Same thing, permanent beserk.

The game's normal functionality is that once you pick up the Berserk pack, it lasts till the end of the level (much like the Computer area map.) The only thing that wears off is the red haze that affects you when you pick it up.

I used Legacy first as well, even before trying Doom95, I think. Its site is easily accessible through search engines. And all the trashing it gets here sometimes due to apparent bugs notwithstanding, it seems to be relatively popular in general.

[ellmo]

abysmal said:

Since everyones on about ports...Doomsday has the best graphics and effects. But the motion feels odd, fluid but vey odd. Doesnt feel like doom.

It's because of the shitty models it has. I'm now looking forward to Graf Zahl adding interpolation for animated models in GZDoom. This will make models more popular for source ports, and maybe make some people create better models or improve the old ones.

[Graf Zahl]

abysmal said:

Since everyones on about ports...Doomsday has the best graphics and effects. But the motion feels odd, fluid but vey odd. Doesnt feel like doom.

You can switch that off in the menu (Go to the Options/Control Panel/Objects menu and disable 'Smooth Actor Movement.) It does indeed look odd when monster movement is interpolated when playing with higher frame rates.

[abysmal]

Turned off all smooth actions and it feels really good actually. Ill be using Doomsday after I finish my Legacy episode.

The smoothed out Doomsday enemies looked like they were gliding across the floor. Now they got that bounce back in thier step.

Ill still use Legacy for the luancher when testing out all those levels I downloaded...its very easy to use with just enough options that are useful.

After all these years I never noticed berserk lasted till the end of a level.

[abysmal]

Actually I only tested out doomsday on Doom2 map1, small level, ran fast, looked good.
But in plutonias congo GL froze every 3 seconds, and Direct3d had very detailed graphics but it looked like I was playing through a fine mesh screen and did run smooth but a bit slow. Im sure theres some option to fix this. Ive tried all the variables.

Legacy runs fast in congo, textures are sweet looking, but on the edges of textures there are very small gaps of white spaces. This only happens in very large spaces.
I finished Doom E1 didnt notice anything at all with the small spaced levels.

edit> right from the Legacy website# There are sometimes sparklies where textures join.

Some level I downloaded here I saw the white spaces with a huge area with Legacy. Even the 200 monsters transporting in at once only slowed it down a little.

edit>> Ok i figured out to put higher resolution to make it look really freaking good in Doomsday with direct3d. But my computer too slow for it.
I still go for Legacy. Runs fast on my computer. The bugs can easily be overlooked, nothing major.

[DaniJ]

I'm now looking forward to Graf Zahl adding interpolation for animated models in GZDoom. This will make models more popular for source ports, and maybe make some people create better models or improve the old ones.

That statement makes no sense what so ever. In fact, its almost funny.

But my computer too slow for it.

What are your system specs?

[fraggle]

Mordeth said:

Don't use Legacy..?

Seriously, this should be a tag already.

[abysmal]

DaniJ said:

What are your system specs?

396 megs ram
With a ATI mobility M4, 16 M memory size...With multimedia decoder >rage theater???
Its an old laptop.

It seems to support openGL in lower resolutions. Using the 3rd highest resolution in Legacy in GL, it runs flawlessly smooth with excellent graphics.

Thats why I like classic doom so much. Great game and needs little computer power to play. But Doomsday is a bit advanced and needs more RAM to work good.