Heretic demos (non-demopack and NM)

[PVS]

Hey, you did it! I tried many times but fails, now you freed me from this task :) Demo time doesn't bother me at all, the main thing is that it happened and recorded. Demo seems not interesting and easy until you try it yourself, I know for sure, for me it interesting, thanks!

[Thom Wye]

Heretic full episode 2 on SM-Pacifist (with crushers) in 20:20. No weapons were fired during this run.

heretic_e2_pacifist_20_20.zip

[PVS]

Thom Wye
First time I see Heretic pacifist movie, good flights, interesting to watch. Like E2M7 beginning - what, where I am? What do you do when the last Bull prepares to die under the crusher - you dance? heh

A couple of questions:
- why do you skip the intermission screens so quickly? I don't even can't see the level time, then how did you get the correct total demo time?
- need not forget to indicate the game-exe/or port version in txt which was used for recording, so that there are no questions.

"Everything interesting has already been done faster before by other runners" - tyson table almost empty! Also, incomplete movies are accepted as long as at least 2 maps are completed in a row, i.e. possible record pacifist movies for other episodes, the demo should have 2 or more maps, because I strongly doubt that for E3M8, E4M8, E5M8 - pacifist is possible.

Pacifist movies... Vincent even did not make such category at that old time, I think we can take SM Movies rules: "finish episode as fast as possible in Smite-Meister, time is the total time of ExM1-ExM7 maps, secret ExM9 and final ExM8 maps is optional, time on ExM8 map not included in total demo time" + Pacifist rules: "shoot, hurt monsters - no, no, no ... etc."

This demo stats:
Level Time
------------------
E2M1 0:26
E2M2 0:55
E2M3 0:53
E2M4 1:25
E2M5 0:27
E2M6 1:29
E2M7 1:36
------------------
E2M8 [13:09]
------------------
Total (classic) 7:11 [20:20]
Total (full) 7:15.91 [20:25.20]

It's good to see new people in Heretic recording table, good run, thanks.
 

[Thom Wye]

E2M7: iirc I was kinda low on health and needed couple seconds to plan

the intermission screens are a bad habit from RTA runs I did for speedrun.com.

I use the latest crispy-heretic which shows total time on each intermission screen and also gives you an intermission screen after M8, that's how I have the total time

and I specifically meant the pacifist category, all levels have already been done faster by better runners

Edited November 6, 2020 by Thom Wye

[PVS]

E2M5 nomo100s in 1:19.49
Looks like a misc category, but maybe someone will be interested, record it almost by accident.

****************************
Edit, nomo100s:
E2M6 in 1:27.71
E2M7 in 1:26.23

E2M9 in 1:57.34

E1M6 in 1:29.66
E1M7 in 1:45.77
These are recorded on purpose, not by accident. Interesting, automatic system that stores demos from forum for archive - can detect new ones if you edit the message? So, we will check this now, hehe
 

o2s5-119.zip

o2s6-127.zip

o2s7-126.zip

o2s9-157.zip

o1s6-129.zip

o1s7-145.zip

Edited December 12, 2020 by PVS

[PVS]

nomo100s movies:
Episode-1 in 11:09.17 (38 secrets)
Episode-2 in 10:32.74 (37 secrets)

First 75 Heretic's secrets for the 26th game birthday. Congratulations to everyone who remember this game!
 

h1os1109.zip

h2os1032.zip

[4shockblast]

On 12/8/2020 at 5:47 PM, PVS said:

These are recorded on purpose, not by accident. Interesting, automatic system that stores demos from forum for archive - can detect new ones if you edit the message? So, we will check this now, hehe

 

The current automatic system doesn't support Heretic/Hexen, since pr+/DSDA-Doom doesn't play them back at the moment, so actually I've been uploading all these runs and accidentally missed the demo you originally posted as part of that post. (:

 

Since it's all manual, it's easy enough for me to upload the demos you edited in, but please make separate posts for them in the future, as otherwise I won't realize there are new demos to upload since there are no new posts (I only saw these after you made the movies post). The automated system for Doom runs also doesn't support edits, so if it's ever extended to Heretic support, new posts will be the only way to get it to pick up a demo.

 

Happy (early?) birthday, Heretic!

[PVS]

The automatic system is talking with me guys! DSDA has artificial intelligence, great!

I was just kidding. Thanks, 4shockblast, if you missed a couple of my demos - don't worry, don't waste your time. Maybe my test of the automatic system will be useful to someone else, now we will know that we need a new message if we want to get into archive, heh

Official Heretic date is December 23 1994. In December 20 published 3-level beta version, the first players tried the game, I use this date, but these dates are close and this is not very important, of course.

Heretic 3-level beta readme:

Spoiler

HERETIC BETA!!!!
Released: Dec. 20 1994

Here is the 3-level only beta release of HERETIC shareware. The entire
shareware version should be available Friday, Dec. 23 1994. If you find
ANY BUGS with this 3-level beta, please email your bug report to:

herebeta@idsoftware.com

This email account will be removed on Friday, so get your bugs in as
soon as you can! Just unzip this file to your hard drive, then type
'install' and you're set.

Make sure you try the other utilities associated with HERETIC:
SETUP, DM, IPXSETUP and SERSETUP.

Thank you for your participation in this bug hunt. :D

John Romero
id Software, inc.
 

 

[Thom Wye]

EDIT: I made a very noobish mistake when recording this demo. I apologize.

Heretic E5M3s on skill 3 in 0:11

 

for what it's worth, I discovered the glide independently of JCD, although couple months after him.

 

h5p3s-011.zip

Edited December 31, 2020 by Thom Wye

[JCD]

E5M3s SM/pacifist in 0:10.91

h5p3s010.zip

[Thom Wye]

Heretic E5M3s SM-Speed + SM-Pacifist in 0:10.66

 

hoping this one lasts longer

 

 

h5p3s-010.zip

[PVS]

Сompetition of skinny guys, but I can't do such trick, maybe I need a diet?

[Thom Wye]

23 hours ago, PVS said:

Сompetition of skinny guys, but I can't do such trick, maybe I need a diet?

 

you'll lose weight just from the frustration of slamming yourself against a wooden gate again and again until you magically phase through )

[Ks4]

Heretic episode 2 in 6:45

heretice2-645.zip

 

video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sA6Ebrfa0EU

Edited January 5, 2021 by kokrean

[PVS]

Thom Wye
hmm, I'm trying, but seems my belly doesn't to fit anyway, I've always wondered - how the Heretic engine can know about this? mystic! he-he

kokrean
Good run! Chaos device from E2M3 saved a couple of seconds for you on E2M4, an interesting find. Quite by accident I found your attempts for 1st episode, as far as I can see, you spent enough time on them and it's also good runs! New Xindage's Wings trick - now the main accelerator in 1st episode, heh. In my opinion, it is better to leave Heretic iwad demos here, so that they are all in one place, even if this is not the best time, I am always glad to see any attempts and save them to my collection.

Crispy Heretic
Who is using this port guys, I'm wondering - what additional features appeared there lately for demo recording vs original game? I see JCD mentioning some magic key? Extra HUD, extra keys, any details? I myself do not have the opportunity to check this, would be grateful for information.
 

Edited January 6, 2021 by PVS

[Ks4]

16 hours ago, PVS said:

Good run!

16 hours ago, PVS said:

good runs!

 

@PVS Thanks. :)

 

16 hours ago, PVS said:

Chaos device from E2M3 saved a couple of seconds for you on E2M4, an interesting find.

 

Yes, but I did not discovered it.

 

I suppose that you are outdated about heretic and hexen routes, this Hexen and Heretic community has been inactive for this last 1 or 2 years, but rta community has evolved a lot, even with rta metods like quick save/load that sleep monsters and saves absurd seconds.

 

Watching your demos, I recommend follow the best route you consider or you will be uploading 60 demos every minute you save, besides all the work and time spent by the moderators to verify and upload non-doom demos manually. (I hope not to sound rude)

 

For example your ep1 hexen have 12:36 duration, but using OOB could be sub 3 minutes.

Edited January 7, 2021 by kokrean

[Ks4]

@PVS Also, I see that you have problems performing a glide.

 

Please read this advanced doom engine movement guide.

 

I'll try to help:

 

So, in the middle of the bars press "move forward" key on a specific direction that you get static, if you cannot then try again, because it depends about specific acceleration value of the player.

 

for example

 

Or you can try using movement by mouse, in this case you have not to move backward.

 

strafe on example

 

vertical mouse movement example

 

Also, I guess that Heretic gliding it's easier than Doom by the player momentum.

Edited January 7, 2021 by kokrean

[Thom Wye]

PVS
you should check out RTA runs on speedrun.com. E4 and E5 are really cool I think )

 

and yeah crispy now has a button that basically lets you restart the game with the same command line args, but from within the game. I would never grind E5M3s like I did if I had to quit and start the new recording from the console again.

[PVS]

kokrean
Thanks for the recommendations, but I hope Thom Wye understood me correctly, I see that he is joking too, that was the goal, not to make this glide. My demos may not be optimized and not interesting at all, WR was never my goal, I'm trying to put in them - something completely different, but not always successful.

My interest here limited only in vanilla Heretic/HeXen demo files, people on speedrun.com record videos and in my opinion have different interests, rules and goals, but even from video - possible find new ideas, routes, etc., of course.
 

[Ks4]

@PVS Good opinion, the most important thing it's the happiness.

Edited January 7, 2021 by kokrean

[Thom Wye]

21 hours ago, PVS said:

My interest here limited only in vanilla Heretic/HeXen demo files, people on speedrun.com record videos and in my opinion have different interests, rules and goals, but even from video - possible find new ideas, routes, etc., of course.
 

 

I think you'd be robbing yourself of good attempts and strats by disregarding speedrun.com. both the demo and rta community can benefit from the others efforts. I would be very happy if we could bring the two more closer together. especially now that crispy is so very speedrunner friendly, there is no obstacle for people doing single episode runs on speedrun.com to record a demo on the side and post it here. it is also a great anti-cheat measure, although I understand this is more of an issue in the doom community.

and the 5 episode runs are in my opinion very worthy challenges, even if they are not possible in the demo community. although I can imagine maybe someday crispy will implement multiepisode demos too :)

Edited January 8, 2021 by Thom Wye

[PVS]

Non-stop iwad run? Maps not designed for this, what sense if you show up on E2M1 after E1M8 with all weapons and artifacts, like Rambo? Reset player at the beginning of the episode? What are the rules? It's not much difficult to implement, but it doesn't make sense, because it will not be compatible with original game. Look what the vanilla Heretic demo format today is: Heretic 1.3, vvHeretic4, Heretic-Plus, CHeretic, Chocolate/Crispy/Russian Heretic, 2 other versions, maybe Rude - 10 exe's, this is a solid demo format! What's the point for any vanilla port to go away from this? Record this on ZDoom's if this is not a problem for these ports.

If non-stop iwad run interesting for you and others guys - no need to hope and wait something, try to suggest this in Crispy topic or place functionality reqest on their github, but think about the rules first, how the player should proceed to the next episode. Maybe guys will like this idea, they will implement it and you will be happy.

[Thom Wye]

the next episode is a wand-start, just like in the 5 episode rta runs. I imagine it like you get the final intermission screen after M8 but instead of the wall of text, you start a different episode. I doubt the vanilla demo format could contain this transition, but it could still start recording a new demo for the newly started episode.

[Ks4]

@Thom Wye Vanilla format supports that feature, only shows time intermission and skips text wall, cndoom have it but you starts the next episode with the same life stats and items of the last level, obviously it has only been implemented on Doom. Also it's highly possible implement the -wandstart and -pistolstart on the first map of each episode on that case.

Edited January 8, 2021 by kokrean

[PVS]

Don't worry, this is not a problem for vanilla demo format, it is just a task for the engine. Try suggest it for your favorite Crispy port or you will wait for this for the next 20 years, heh

[Thom Wye]

would the vanilla demo format recording this be backwards compatible? I understand that is a big deal for the choco/crispy devs.

 

also do you think the demos community would begin accepting demos like this into its rankings?

 

I did request the feature however.

Edited January 9, 2021 by Thom Wye

[Ks4]

Ultimate Doom is composed of episodes like Heretic, and have a category which consists in complete all the episodes on a single demo named D1All.

 

The problem will be complete the entire 5 episodes of heretic without dying taking into considering that save/load is not supported and skill 4 it's the standart difficulty, could be nice for max runs.

[Thom Wye]

it has been done before and will be done again multiple times once I buy a new PC

Edited January 9, 2021 by Thom Wye

[PVS]

15 hours ago, Thom Wye said:

would the vanilla demo format recording this be backwards compatible? I understand that is a big deal for the choco/crispy devs.

also do you think the demos community would begin accepting demos like this into its rankings?

Such demo will be possible completely playback only on this port, other vanilla engines should stop after М8. I suppose, Chocolate team not implement this, because this is not original behavior, and not only for demos - for gameplay itself.

Such demos, if they are recorded, can be published in 'Misc Heretic and HeXen' topic, they can be taken into DSDA, maybe not, first - they should appear. Also, this demo topics present here not only for DSDA, if you have any interesting demos in your opinion - show them, maybe it will be interesting for someone else. If need, you can mark them 'not for DSDA', so that guys do not waste their time on them.

I tried to make a test variant of the transition between episodes in my hobby project (it is only for old Windows OS guys, not relevant), it became interesting to see how it works, record E1M8->E2M1 demo, at the moment only in Rambo format - works fine, playbacks fine. The main thing that I wanted to check - other engines not have problems with such demos: vvHeretic4 and Chocolate just stop after M8, no crashes or something weird doesn't happen to them, that's good.

What do you mean guys under 'save/load' for demorecording, something like TAS? As far as I know, such utilities and ports do not exist for Heretic. And of course, for classic demo recording - need only skill 4 and 5, 1-3 is not serious at all, as you know yourself, but even skill-1 is allowed for DSDA, can be public in 'Misc Heretic and HeXen' topic.
 

[GoneAway]

If you set up the episode transitions so that you can record a demo and play it back with a certain port, we'll be happy to host those demos on dsda. I agree with PVS that chocolate probably wouldn't add that, but I think Fabian would be open to that kind of feature in crispy-heretic. You could ask about it here: