plutonia 2

[xit-vono]

Hi there Vince. I'm thinking of starting mapping for this project. Let me know if you want me to participate. Also, what would be a good choice for a level editor? Is Doom Builder good?

[Fredrik]

Is my map still in there?

[VinceDSS]

@fredrik:

yes your map is still in the project, but a question is still in suspend. It has been modified quite a bit by metabolist and virgil. I found the older version, w/o virgil tweaks (who actually did quite a lot of bad things to many maps in this project).

So if you would like to take it over again, you would be more than welcome !!! I can send you the last texture wad and invite you in the mailing list since you are a member of the old team.

@xit:

Sure, I can send you the texture wad so you can start making your own maps. Once you have something you like, you can submit it to our testing team and we will decide if we accept it in the project.
Many people like doombuilder, others prefer wadauthor. You got to test em as they are both good editors :)

[Fredrik]

I know that the map could use some editing. Unfortunately, I don't have time for mapping right now, and probably won't have time until summer.

[VinceDSS]

You got plenty of time, so many holes need to filled because we booted out a whole bunch of maps ... so most likely it's not going to be out before this summer, and probably not before x-mas either...

[Kid Airbag]

Hey someone hook me up with the resource wad. Dunno if I'll end up making anything but I'd like to mess around.

[Vile]

Props to you map-making folks. I learned Doombuilder but be damned if I could come up with a decent idea for a map.

[Dr. Zin]

Kid Airbag said:

Hey someone hook me up with the resource wad. Dunno if I'll end up making anything but I'd like to mess around.

Ditto.

[VinceDSS]

Vile said:

Props to you map-making folks. I learned Doombuilder but be damned if I could come up with a decent idea for a map.

maybe you can work on fixing some already existing maps that arent in the project yet ? => in the yahoo group, folders "maps not included" and "concepts"

[Chain Mail]

Why do people need a "resource wad"? Wouldn't Plutonia itself suffice? I mean, even if there are additional resources, anyone can start off with Plutonia's set, which includes DOOM II's.

By the way shouldn't this be for use with Plutonia as the IWAD? Doing otherwise is pretty much a disrespect to the original authors. Plus the excuse that fewer people have Plutonia shouldn't really matter, as this wad should be for the most part for people that liked Plutonia (which means they should have it as well).

I mean, call it Plutonia II or whatever, and use the Plutonia resources all you want, but at least make it Plutonia dependent. Both (copyright related) common sense and id's EULA call for that.

[VinceDSS]

the project wasnt started by us, and yes, using plutonia as iwad makes sense but it wasnt our choice .... It is way too much work to revert all the maps to plutonia's iwad now :/

[mOBSCENE]

I have now played the demo and I was a bit dissapointed. There was one map I played once where I think the author wrote in the readme that it was supposed to be a map from the plutonia 2 project. It had loads of cacodemons, but I believe that it was fake. Anyhow I love the screenshots of the last maps of the Plutonia 2 project and I hope that it does come out sometime in the future.

[pcorf]

I want my map to be removed from Plutonia 2 because I released it as Selfish4.wad.

[VinceDSS]

pcorf said:

I want my map to be removed from Plutonia 2 because I released it as Selfish4.wad.

It has already been removed :)

Actually it didnt pass the map selection we did when restarting the project.

mOBSCENE said:

I have now played the demo and I was a bit dissapointed. There was one map I played once where I think the author wrote in the readme that it was supposed to be a map from the plutonia 2 project.

forget the demo, it isn't good, metabolist couldn't catch the plutonia style :/ (many mappers have this problem actually)

kaiser released 2 maps from plutonia 2 (kaiser_18 and 19 I think), pretty good maps we must say. But it doesnt matter since he joined the project again and will make new maps :)

[Zeroth]

what exactly defines the plutonia style?

was it something that the original plutonia authors agreed upon prior to production, or did it just "happen" ?

[Gusta]

plutonia style = casali's style :-)
simple but creative and memorable maps, good solution of how are rooms/outside arenas connected together instead of their expansion far and far away (no linear maps), short and actionpacked gameplay with good traps, time of play max 10 mins if you play aggresively and know the map well.
Oh and maybe some plutonia texturing to get the right environment :-)

[kristus]

Another thing that makes it not very much Plutonia, was that Plutonia were made by two brothers in five months. :p

[mOBSCENE]

kristus said:

Another thing that makes it not very much Plutonia, was that Plutonia were made by two brothers in five months. :p

wow
in just 5 months? very impressive

[Angus Thermopyle]

Scythe was made even faster ... 96,875% by one guy :)

About Plutonia style. Gusta forgot to mention:
- Plutonia is full of speedrunning tricks (all people working on Pl2 should think about this)
- there are not many cramped places.

OTOH most Pl2beta maps aren't suitable for speedrunning because they are cramped from start to finish :(

[Vile]

Been busy, but I'm still going to try and conjure up something for the project eventually. The last goal reached was going through the DoomBuilder guide to teach myself how to use it. Next step was to play through plutonia again and to look at the levels in the editor to take note of certain things:

- How light is handled outside and indoors, as well as along stairways (exact lighting levels like 155 for an open area and 135 for a nearby door, for instance).
- How room transitions are handled, texture-wise. Some parts of map01 use a wood texture as dividers between rooms that use different textures, for example.
- What sort of aesthetic details one could use without going overboard (map08's scrolling walls with the face texture in the exit area).

From a gameplay perspective, as Angus said, stuff like open environments, trick possibilities (though how many in plutonia were deliberate is a mystery to me), good interconnections between areas, careful use of traps without making them too predictable, and perhaps some gimmicky design can give the map some character in some cases... though sometimes not in a good way (map16's area with the rising/lowering pillars... ehhh).

Anyway, that's my train of thought right now, but getting inspiration is difficult and actually designing them would take longer given my level of experience. Even worse is something that carried over from speedrunning: any little bump or quirk can really bug me. ;)

[Gusta]

just quick reply about the light levels: The light levels grow up by 16 points: 0,16,32, etc. (that means that if you use lightlevel 159 it is the same as 144). In general I use 160 for outside arenas and 144/128 for inside rooms. (and then some differences for light effects). For my ep1 map where is white sky that makes the environment so bright I had to lower all lights by 1 level (144 for outside, 128/112 for inside)

[VinceDSS]

I have mailed the all people that offered to make a map for this project, only 2 replied, Dutch Devil and Xit Vono.

Kaiser replied too but he is already part of the team :)

So I guess all others bailed out.

[kristus]

I've not worked on the map for some time.
Got so much stuff to do, when I started I thought that it would be a small matter to finish it up. But I've removed a lot and .. stuff

[Dutch Doomer]

Still messing around with my map its not easy to make an good looking map with the limitations, ive gotten used to making maps without having to worry about any errors.

[VinceDSS]

allowing limit removing would probably lead to overdetailed levels :/

I know it ain't easy :/

[myk]

VinceDSS said:
allowing limit removing would probably lead to overdetailed levels :/

While it's more possible, it's not necessarily so. You can always suggest that maps' detailing shouldn't be very different from Plutonia's level of detail. In any case, testing with Doom+ or v1.9 compatibility should be encouraged (or necessary).

[Tango]

I still have not added an exit to my map, but aside from that, it's practically done. I'll get around to finishing it sometime. ;)

[VinceDSS]

myk said:

While it's more possible, it's not necessarily so. You can always suggest that maps' detailing shouldn't be very different from Plutonia's level of detail. In any case, testing with Doom+ or v1.9 compatibility should be encouraged (or necessary).

We want it to be vanilla compatible, so we can't allow limit removing.

[NiGHTMARE]

I'm just curious, is my map still being used? I'm not sure what map number it was going to be, plus the level was unfinished when I donated it (about four years ago, I believe) and I know at least one person made extensive changes/additions. However, hopefully these screens should help identify it:





If anyone does recognize this map and has the most recent version, would you mind sending it over so I can check out what's been done to it? Thanks :).

[VinceDSS]

I think your map was map06 in sam's and virgil's 32 level betas.
Both of them heavily modified it, probably not for the better. Sam and Virgil didnt do too much good to this project.

A couple months ago we went through all the maps and decided to put a whole bunch aside. Including this one.

But if you wish to pick your map again and fix it , you are welcome to do so :) Virgil and Sam overdetailed a lot and made it too crampy and complex...