plutonia 2

[Gusta]

VinceDSS said:

But if you wish to pick your map again and fix it , you are welcome to do so :) Virgil and Sam overdetailed a lot and made it too crampy and complex...

better say remake totally than fix ... map06 from pl2beta was boring linear layout just room-by-room and cramped all the time ... why? sorry but that's not plutonia.

[VinceDSS]

sam and virgil added parts and modified the map a lot...I bet it doesnt look like nightmare intended it at all ...

If he is up to fix it for the better or even make a new map from scratch , he is very welcome to try.

[NiGHTMARE]

The most "recent" beta I have of the project is dated May 1st 2001, so understandably it doesn't have my map in it :).

If someone could get a more recent version of the level to me, I'll see whether it's possible to salvage it. At the very least I'd like to try to retain the extra rooms that Sam and Virgil presumably added to it.

[VinceDSS]

I sent it yesterday to the email you gave on DW.com ...

Is it still valid ?

[NiGHTMARE]

Ah right, I haven't checked my mail in a few days.

Okay, having played Virgil's revision, here are my thoughts:

- Oh dear, you weren't kidding about this being cramped. Most areas need expanding to at least twice their size.

- The texturing sucks almost everywhere. My version didn't exactly use many Plutonia textures, but for some reason he changed the textures even in those few areas that did!

- Most of the architectural changes in the existing rooms are for the worse, though there are a few exceptions.

- The new areas might be okay if they're made less cramped.

- Gameplay wise, Virgil seems to have been intending this level for Hell Revealed 2, rather than Plutonia 2.


All in all, if I were to work on the level again, I would go back to the original and either copy'n'paste in or remake some of Virgil's changes. I'd also try to get the thing to look far more like something out of Plutonia.

I'll have a go at revising the level, but I have to warn you that I absolutely loathe the limitations of the original engine with a passion. If they start bugging me too much, I'll probably end up making this a standalone release for limit removing ports.

[VinceDSS]

The project is not dead yet, it is just going very slow :)

nightmare > feel free to rework your map completely and give it a better plutonia look and feel, I can send you the last resource wad if you need.

[VinceDSS]

The project is still going, a few mappers have joined, but great mapers !!

Here is a quick status report on all the maps, 99% meaning design and gameplay completed, only coop/dm, skill settings and minor fixes needed:

map - Author(s) - Status
--------------------------------------
01 - Gusta - 99 %
02 - Ebola, Metabolist - 85 %
03 - Metabolist - 99 %
04 - Fredrik - 80 %
05 - Metabolist, Pagb666 - 70 %
06 - Gusta - 99 %
07 - Kira, peroxyd - 99 %
08 - Tango - 99 %
09 - Gusta - 99 %
10 - TV - 99 %
11 -
12 - Kristian Aro, Kira - 60 %
13 - Fredrik - 80 %
14 -
15 - Gusta - 66 %
16 -
17 - Gusta - 0 %
18 - Genex - 60 %
19 - Method, Metabolist - 90 %
20 - Erik Alm - 99 %
21 -
22 - Erik Alm - 90 %
23 - Method - 0 %
24 - Gusta - 95 %
25 - TV - 99 %
26 - Metabolist, Virgil - 85 %
27 - Joe Pallai - 60 %
28 -
29 -
30 -
31 - Virgil, Gusta - 20 %
32 -

Any mappers that are interested in submitting a map should contact me in order to get the texture wad.

No deadline or release date has been set yet as we still miss quite a few map and some currently listed may also be replaced.

[_MethoD_]

Hey i'm sending a couple of screenshots from P219 which is finally done. (only need to be fix some textures, monster and stuff, you know :))





Currently i'm working on p223... !!! Go Plutonia2 Go !!!

[VinceDSS]

current status :

map - Author(s) - Status
--------------------------------------------------------------
01 - Gusta - beta
02* - Ebola, Metabolist - unfinished
03* - Metabolist - beta
04 - Fredrik - unfinished
05* - Metabolist, Pagb666 - unfinished
06 - Gusta - beta
07 - Kira, peroxyd - beta
08 - Tango - beta
09 - Gusta - beta
10 - TV - beta
11 - Gusta, TV - unfinished
12* - Kristian Aro, Kira - unfinished
13 - Fredrik - unfinished
14 -
15 - Gusta - unfinished
16 -
17 - Gusta - not started
18 - Genex - unfinished
19 - Method, Metabolist - beta
20 - Erik Alm - beta
21 -
22* - Erik Alm - beta
23 - Method - not started
24 - Gusta - beta
25 - TV - beta
26* - Metabolist, Virgil - unfinished
27 - Joe Pallai - unfinished
28 - Eternal - beta
29 -
30 -
31 - Virgil, Gusta - unfinished
32 -

* needs rework or may be replaced

Resources - Author(s)
----------------------------------------------------------------
titlepic, intermission and menu logo - TV
textures - Plutonia and TNT

Eternal joined the project with an amazing map28.
On testers team, Time Of Death and Selim "SBastard" joined (selim is former AV tester as well as compet-n player).

[myk]

I'm not sure if this is the case already, but if you want to make a proper sequel to Plutonia it should run taking Plutonia's wad as the IWAD (and not DOOM II's).

[Use]

Why? What difference does that make.

[myk]

Use3D said:
Why? What difference does that make.

It ensures that the users have the original, it doesn't require bundling the Plutonia specific resources, and isn't copyright infringement. Plutonia is the same as a wad that says "authors may NOT use this as a base for additional levels", unless you make an addon specifically for it (just like with any IWAD).

Would you make a wad with resources from a wad that says you can't use it as a base? No. Why would you do that here?

[Gusta]

Happy that 24 does not have "*" :-)))
myk: we were not thinking about this yet ... its not our priority yet

[Vegeta]

The problem is that on this way you don't need to have Final DOOM in order to see its textures on the game. It's technically ilegal, yet.. well you know how these things work.. It wouldn't be the first time someone do this.

Some people care about this, some not, it's up to you. But if you decide to respect it, I think it's better to think about it before new maps are submited that'd require a retexturing work.

[Use]

myk said:

It ensures that the users have the original, it doesn't require bundling the Plutonia specific resources, and isn't copyright infringement.

Ah that makes sense. People should have plutonia if they want to play it.

[Kid Airbag]

Sorry to be a pain in the ass, but I asked for the resource pack to be sent to me about seven months ago, and while there's a good bet you did this promptly, I kind of forgot that my DW e-mail address is my old att.net account, which I still do have but I check it about once a year now. I don't have a mail agent, I just use their online browser which only keeps mails from the previous 30 days.

So basically, if anyone wants to send it again to me, I'd be greatly appreciated. I have some ideas for a map loosely based on Plutonia Map26, which was always my favorite from the set. Just post here when you've sent it so I know when to check my mail.

E-mail is pudge@att.net so you don't have to go searching through my profile and whatnot.

[myk]

Kid Airbag said:
Sorry to be a pain in the ass, but I asked for the resource pack to be sent to me about seven months ago,

See, that's one of the things that should be unnecessary.

If it's currently using Plutonia and DOOM II resources, all you need is Plutonia itself. You could tell your mapping tool to use Plutonia as the IWAD, and get cracking right away.

[VinceDSS]

1st - the project wasnt started by me, I barely brung it back from oblivion in 2007.

2nd - the previous team chose to make it a pwad that requires doom2, not plutonia. So If we want to switch back to plutonia as iwad, there will be a heck of a lot of work to change textures on each map. (if somebody has a tool to do that that would be cool).

3rd - there is a bunch of megawads that use plutonia/tnt textures, famous ones such as Alien Vendetta come too mind. Why complaining about our project and ignore the others?

4th - we use more textures than just plutonia and doom2, so a resource wad will still be needed.

I am not against switching back to plutonia, but it is way too much work now. Unless somebody has a simple and easy alternative.

[myk]

VinceDSS said:
1st - the project wasnt started by me, I barely brung it back from oblivion in 2007.

Indeed; my intention is not to put the project down or criticise you guys, but to propose improvements.

3rd - there is a bunch of megawads that use plutonia/tnt textures, famous ones such as Alien Vendetta come too mind. Why complaining about our project and ignore the others?

Those are finished and their teams are mostly inactive, while this one is in full production.

4th - we use more textures than just plutonia and doom2, so a resource wad will still be needed.

Regardless, I'm guessing that for the most part the levels will be using DOOM II and Plutonia resources like Plutonia does, if they're going to have a Plutonian theme.

I am not against switching back to plutonia, but it is way too much work now. Unless somebody has a simple and easy alternative.

As for how much work it would be, it depends on what has been specifically used in the levels. I could help in this process (I helped fix and tidy AV's resources), actually, as I'd like to see it become a worthy sequel of Plutonia in every way possible, and perhaps also finish or produce a level, if it goes in this Plutonia dependent direction.

[VinceDSS]

If you want to join and help us convert the maps and make this project move in the right direction, I would be glad to add you to our team.

[Zeroth]

on the contrary, I think the right direction would be finishing the unfinished maps and releasing it.

The damn project was dead for years, why waste more time revamping the whole thing when you're nearly complete?

it's completely doomed if you do. (no pun intended)

[VinceDSS]

Zeroth said:

The damn project was dead for years, why waste more time revamping the whole thing when you're nearly complete?

We had 32 maps but the whole thing sucked... you would have been really disappointed if we had released it as metabolist and virgil planned it. About 70% of the maps were either bad or really not even remotely close to any of plutonia's themes. We had to scrap those.

it is far to be complete, we still have to check all modes and skill settings (in many cases actually implement them) as well as full betatesting of all maps in coop and solo.

On top of that we are missing about 6 maps and many need some serious work before being completely accepted (fredrik's maps come to mind).

So do not expect this to come out before 08, and we are not ready to set a release date. After all, we are not paid for this and are not forced to release anything just for the heck of releasing. A rushed release is the worse thing that can happen to a wad.

[Zeroth]

well I did play the first map from the "leak", and it was pretty bad :-/

[Gusta]

Fully agree with Vince. And "almost" restarting the project in Feb 07 was the best thing that we could do for that.

[t.v.]

Different people have different ideas on how Plutonia should look/ feel like. Some say the maps should be small and fast. Others believe they should be big and impressive.
IOW; should P2 look like it could have been made in 1997 or should it meet modern standards?

IMO we are not trying to make a 'remake' of Plutonia but a 'tribute'. Individual mappers have different memories of Plutonia so they will map in varying styles. I remember Plutonia as impressively good looking, hard and innovative, so for me P2 should be just that. Time has changed and what was impressive/ hard/ innovative THEN may be very ordinary NOW. P2 will therefore be different than the original.

in the end P2 will be a mix of diffent styles/ ideas because the were made by a number of people with diffent views. There should be something in it for everybody's liking.

(well, that's my take on the project...)

[myk]

VinceDSS said:
If you want to join and help us convert the maps and make this project move in the right direction, I would be glad to add you to our team.

Sure thing, I'll join and help out with that, at least. PM me a link of the current wad or email it (include doom in the subject to avoid filters).

[Gusta]

Hmmm IMO we could think about this when the whole wad will be done, now we don't have any beta version only the separated mostly still undone maps. I think it's too early for converting the maps now.

[VinceDSS]

myk > I sent you an invitation to the yahoo group. So I hope it wont get filtered as it is the only way to have access to the files and the mailing list.

[myk]

Gusta said:
I think it's too early for converting the maps now.

The earlier the better, really, as the more the levels are worked on, the more work converting the thing is going to take, just stalling the project further.

Whoever wants to convert their own levels by themselves can go right ahead, or leave theirs till later, but I can easily take care of any unfinished maps that aren't being worked on by anyone at the moment and might be used, or any other levels sent to me by anyone for this purpose.

It's not really complicated. All people have to do is make sure their level runs with Plutonia, plus any extra textures they're using that are not in Plutonia (which includes the DOOM II resources, of course).

It should also be an opportunity to clean up an "plutonize" levels which in some respects were not very plutonian. Mainly texturewise, but also in other respects.

t.v. said:
I remember Plutonia as impressively good looking, hard and innovative, so for me P2 should be just that.

I'd say Plutonia is challenging by the stategic placement of relatively tough enemies, and has a particular and pretty solid design style mixing DOOM and DOOM II influences meshed by a new bunch of textures specific to it. If it was innovative, it was so in a subtle way that took DOOM II's style and honed its difficulty, and it had a consistent character of its own by repeating certain types of details or structures that made it identifiable (the exits being an obvious example).

There should be something in it for everybody's liking.

Not necessaily. The community is quite varied with people liking very different things and you can't please everybody. It should be something for people who like to play Plutonia even now, with levels that each have their own unique design but still carry Plutonia's visual and gameplay style in some way (which is up to the author with input from testers but also judged by the ones managing the project, e.g., VinceDSS).

[myk]

VinceDSS said:
myk > I sent you an invitation to the yahoo group. So I hope it wont get filtered as it is the only way to have access to the files and the mailing list.

I'm in, thanks!