Hell Revealed demos [-complevel 2]

[abyrvalg]

thanks!
By the way, i would really like to listen to some explanations about what happens in the end of map18 - why does this linedef stops working. I noticed it accidentaly, used it, but dont have any technical explanation about it.

Those glides are so amusing... eventually we'll find engine bugs that let the Doom guy break down any wall he wishes

Heh, these words remind me of some Blood behaviour. But you dont break down walls in Blood, the walls break you down instead :) I tried to do some glides there and always was squished for no good reason!

[Grazza]

Great work indeed. Sorry for not replying to your earlier e-mail, Jongo, but I didn't really have anything insightful to add. I think the tricks in maps 16 and 18 are your own to claim. Probably someone had noticed the 32-unit gaps in map16, but I don't recall anyone actually recording anything using them.

And yes, let's hope there are new categories of tricks that let us smash maps apart in new and unexpected ways! That brings to mind this Quake-related discussion, btw. Seems they're still finding/understanding new and bizarre stuff too.

[Gusta]

jongo said:

thanks!
By the way, i would really like to listen to some explanations about what happens in the end of map18 - why does this linedef stops working. I noticed it accidentaly, used it, but dont have any technical explanation about it.

For me this is a typical doom engine bug when exactly north-south or east-west trigger linedefs simply doesn't work while player is strafing over them. I have no better explanation for this :-/
Oh I have to say it too: excellent run! In map07 I was saying to myself: "damn this is not possible to survive!" Map22 was diabolique! And the others too! :-)

[Grazza]

Gusta said:

For me this is a typical doom engine bug when exactly north-south or east-west trigger linedefs simply doesn't work while player is strafing over them.

No, the teleport linedef actually ceases to function, as if it were a once-only teleport that has been used. It is not a case of the player skipping the linedef. You can see this by viewing the automap at this stage of the demo.

[Kristian Ronge]

Sensational demo so far! Very well done, Jongo! :-D

I tried the map 18 trick and it seems to work every time. I have no idea why this works, though. My first guess (the linedef becomes "normal" the same tic that the floor of the sector from which the Arch-Vile is teleported has reached the height of the floor of the adjoining sector) turned out to be wrong, as it occurs some two or three tics before.

[TimeOfDeath]

Really nice runs, indeed! Fun stuff.

[evocalvin]

fantastic run !!!!!!!jongo :))))
the whole movie isvery impressive, especially map07,14 and 22
look forward to seeing your complete HR Speed movie :-D

[RjY]

jongo said:

By the way, i would really like to listen to some explanations about what happens in the end of map18 - why does this linedef stops working. I noticed it accidentaly, used it, but dont have any technical explanation about it.

Just another unlikely combination of Doom's counter-intuitive gameplay behaviour. :)

1. P_CrossSpecialLine (p_spec.c) accidentally allows certain types of projectile to activate walk-triggered linedefs that allow monsters.
   (Instead of just testing the MF_MISSILE mobj flag like you'd expect, the code explicitly disallows a particular list of mobj types -- all the projectile types in Doom. Obviously it was never updated for Doom 2. I think this shows P_CrossSpecialLine was written long before they thought of adding the MF_MISSILE flag.)
2. So P_CrossSpecialLine calls EV_Teleport (p_telept.c) in which all projectiles are immediately rejected. (by testing MF_MISSILE)
3. Nevertheless, P_CrossSpecialLine will still consume any single-use linedef, even when the linedef action fails. This is only the case for doom2.exe - this particular behaviour is fixed in Boom.

telemissile.wad.gz - small wad to illustrate the effect. Run it in doom2.exe compatibility mode and watch the linedefs change colour on the automap.

[Searcher]

In map 18 I noticed that if you hug the right hand wall leading to the exit door; as you enter the area of the teleport line you will very often not get teleported. I never really tried to strafe thru it. Glad to know that that may work as well.

I love map 18 and play it at least several times per week. In fact, I enjoy hr more than hr2, but both are excellent.

And BTW, kick ass run in there. Thanks.

Edit:typo

[Ryback]

Excellent run. I watched it once straight through and then once at 50% so I could work out what happened :)

[Grazza]

RjY said:

... the code explicitly disallows a particular list of mobj types -- all the projectile types in Doom. Obviously it was never updated for Doom 2.

So you're saying that revenant and mancubus fireballs will always cancel single-use teleporter lines in Doom2.exe? Or, more generally, cancel all single-use special linedefs, without triggering them? That sounds like quite an exploitable new insight.

[RjY]

Grazza said:
So you're saying that revenant and mancubus fireballs will always cancel single-use teleporter lines in Doom2.exe?

Arachnotrons, boss spawn cubes, and maybe others as well. I just tried carrying an archvile fire over the line at the end of hr18 but it didn't work. I guess it's because vile fire isn't governed by the same movement code as everything else.

Or, more generally, cancel all single-use special linedefs, without triggering them? That sounds like quite an exploitable new insight.

Not all of them. Just walk triggers that can be activated by monsters. You only really have 4 (W1 open door), 10 (W1 lower lift), 39 (W1 teleport) and 125 (W1 teleport monsters) It's not that great, or someone else would have exploited it already :)

[myk]

Grazza said:
Or, more generally, cancel all single-use special linedefs, without triggering them?

I doubt it; if I'm not mistaken, only a couple of teleporter lines are both single use and monster allowing.

[abyrvalg]

Probably my last tools-assisted demo for HR. I have built map30 Nightmare speedrun in 0:09 using a quadruple AV jump.
I seem to have problems with webspace again, so i just attached it.

hn30-009.zip

[Schneelocke]

jongo said:

Probably my last tools-assisted demo for HR. I have built map30 Nightmare speedrun in 0:09 using a quadruple AV jump.
I seem to have problems with webspace again, so i just attached it.

Wow. :) Has there ever been a demo featuring a quad archie jump before?

[gggmork]

Havn't played hell revealed in a long time, measily 4 seconds faster than the compet-n uvmax for map 11 attached.

hr111519-ggg.zip

[gggmork]

Sorry, I'd just edit the previous attachment but I don't think that's possible. hr11 uvmax again, 14:41, same basic thing but killed both cybers with 2 bfg hits (the one in the bfg room died from infighting). One part full of fail is missing that stupid lift jump multiple times, which caused me to turn in sharp circles to throw a tantrum.

hr111441.zip

[gggmork]

Only 15 seconds faster than belial's hr 13 uvmax. I just copied his route mostly since my route attempts sucked, and think he can re-beat it without much trouble.
I *almost* forgot to get that secret at the end which wouldn't have made it max, but that blunder costed me 20 seconds probably. The main speed improvments are probably using more rockets in the soulsphere (arch + hell knights + chaingunner) area, and just getting lucky to get a baron to come my direction quickly so I can bounce the door off his head.

hr131021.zip

[Gusta]

...just to call gggmork's attention on this kinda old but still separated thread for New HR demos.
Attached map01 UV Tyson in 2:29 :-)

ht01-229.zip

[gggmork]

If a mod feels like it, feel free to move my last 3 posts/hr demos from the miscellaneous thread to this thread (but doesn't really matter to me).

Jongo's 30-map TAS run is in this thread by the way if anybody's wondering:
http://www.doomworld.com/vb/doom-speed-demos/41871-hell-revealed-tas-movie-in-1631/

I learned in this thread to turn smooth demo playback off- I've been using it without knowing.

[myk]

This thread's got a mix of normal and TAS demos. Too late to mess with it, but from now on lets try to give each type separate threads for clarity (short of illustrative TAS demos showing some technical tidbit relevant to normal demos being posted).

gggmork said:
Only 15 seconds faster than belial's hr 13 uvmax.

To compare times more accurately with existing ones you might want to use compatibility level 2 (instead of 9), especially on these WADs like HR that have such a huge demo history using the format.

[gggmork]

myk said:

To compare times more accurately with existing ones you might want to use compatibility level 2 (instead of 9), especially on these WADs like HR that have such a huge demo history using the format.

There, I beat this bastard level again with complevel 2, beating my previous time a bit (now 10:05).
I guess complevel 2 allows 'ghost' enemies (where an enemy is resurrected and unkillable without splash damage or infighting or whatever (like the intentional ghost imps of map 26)- happened 3 times on previous complevel 2 runs of this map, but not in this demo).

edit: I just now watched the 8:38 TAS route on the doomed speed demo archive, not sure how difficult that route would be.

hr131005.zip

[gggmork]

grr, 16 seconds slower than vile's uvmax of hr26. Got the rocket launcher early with a vile jump; doing so probably has the potential to beat the tas time even, if better & riskier strategy is used (such as using the vile on top of the rocket launcher platform to jump instead (though there are reverents in the way), and infighting the cybers more) but 20 minutes is kinda long to play risky especially when many attempts are required for me even while playing safe.

The very end ghosts seem to not work most of the time on this map (maybe because sector 156 shouldn't have tag 33, but don't know for sure. My guess is when the 'open door' line affects sector 150, it only opens as high as sector 156's crusher happens to be, thus preventing the vile from reaching the corpses), or I guess it might have been intentional.

hr262000.zip

[tatsurd-cacocaco]

Nice AV jump.

I thought that vile was very lucky, when I watched the vile's demo for a long time before. However, line 2181 (tag 34) is avoidable enough. It might not have to rely on the luck any longer.

http://cacocacodemon.hp.infoseek.co.jp/hr26.jpg

[gggmork]

Good find, I didn't notice that. Maybe it was intentional.

[gggmork]

Hell yeah, I finally beat vile's time as well as the tas time (15:53, my run isn't tas like usual of course). I had a major advantage of the rocket launcher though so I guess its not much of an accomplishment, and it could have been faster. The vile jump at the beginning requires so many attempts and luck (for me) that the level became about as annoying as the start of eaxt02 (where making that cyber come down and getting the bfg in one swoop is a luck based pain), but after the beginning this route isn't that hard. I agree with tatsurd's previous text file that I don't find hr as hard as it used to be. I used that sneak around the end linedef to avoid the end ghosts (even though they often don't show up anyway).

hr261553.zip

[tatsurd-cacocaco]

Very impressive! Great work.

[abyrvalg]

Wow, will definitely check this out tomorrow. This was the hardest map of HRs for me to finish, and both Vile's unassisted and Peo's TAS demos felt really amazing at that time (hah, like if i didn't like any of Vile's demos).

[gggmork]

I beat 2 more hr times at doomedsda:

map 27 (cyberpunk)- 5:38
I managed to use only 2 bfg blasts for every single cyber (mostly due to luck separating the cybers into individuals rather than a pack) so its about a minute faster than the previous uvmax.
The first cyber is a pain; snagging columns jutting everywhere and an invisibility sphere that = death if you get it.

map 31 - 7:04
Not one of my favorite levels, but about 50sec faster. Infinitely tall flying monsters can be a pain at the beginning.


EDIT: damn, I just now watched the map27 3:25 tas route, that would have been quicker.

hr27_&_31.zip

[Gusta]

Great, ecspecially that map27 was excellent!