Recording from the first tic

[Mr.TF]

I know it's a lame question, but how am I able to record from the first tic?

DataStart
WT                      #     1 (0.02s)
WT                      #     2 (0.05s)
WT                      #     3 (0.08s)
WT                      #     4 (0.11s)
WT                      #     5 (0.14s)
GF50                    #     6 (0.17s)
GF50                    #     7 (0.20s)
GF50                    #     8 (0.22s)

Here I was pushing "forward button" during the game loading. Never get faster start, so I am bewildered. These tics would have been valuable several times.

I am using: WinXP Sp2, Dosbox 0.72, Novert

[xit-vono]

This is a "feature" of the old doom2.exe that you can't start moving on the first tic. I'm not sure about the details but I remember from my experiences that it may be possible to start with a UT earlier than normal with good timing(perhaps on the second tic?) I'm not sure about movement tics whether that may work.

[entryway]

in prboom-plus you can record from first tic easily

[TimeOfDeath]

Is that a default setting in prboom-plus (to record from first tic)?

[Grazza]

There are some compet-n demos where movement starts from the first tic, such as, IIRC, the original lv01-005.lmp. I don't recall seeing a precise description of how to achieve that though. I remember AdamW saying something about it (search relevant places for "quickstart", I guess).

I imagine Opulent can shed some more light on this...

[Mr.TF]

after a minute of searching:

# DOOM ][ LMP file:         nm24-053.lmp
# Number of players:        1
# Total play time:          54.25s
# Number of game tics:      1899

HeaderStart
 Game:         DOOM ][
 Version:      1.9
 Skill:        5
 Episode:      1
 Map:          24
HeaderEnd

DataStart
GF50 SL40 TR5           #     1 (0.02s)
GF50 SL40               #     2 (0.05s)
GF50 SL40               #     3 (0.08s)
GF50 SL40               #     4 (0.11s)
GF50 SL40               #     5 (0.14s)

This demo is yours, Xit. Well?... :)

[Ryback]

Getting movement on the first tic in a Doom.exe demo isn't too hard, for me I just had to hold down the forward key at a certain point as the game loaded (not too soon, otherwise it wouldn't work). You have to have the keys held down before the display mode switches from text to graphics.

Some mousers got very skilled at flicking the player's orientation with the mouse during the loading sequence so they'd start oriented at a good angle for straferunning (Adam H and Sedlo could both do this precisely). How this is achieved I have no idea.

Of course it's impossible to move on the first tic in subsequent levels in a multi-level run - this only works when the game first loads.

[VinceDSS]

it's pretty easy to do a fast start on doom2.exe, as mentionned before for the keys you just have to press the keys you need (like forward and strafe to one side). For the start angle, I think only mousers can do that, it's actually interesting to see how it works.

In true DOS, either MSDOS (with a mouse driver loaded) or win98 command line, if you move the mouse while in command line before hitting enter to load doom2.exe, the computer will record the move and start the player at a matching angle.

I noticed that when I was moving the mouse before hitting enter to reload the game, forcing me to restart to have the correct angle.

For most players, it is actually easy to find the correct angle after a few tries. And since you got to try hundreds of times or more to snatch a record, finding the angle becomes a routine you dont even think about.

In my case I do the mouse turning while the "refreshing daemon" loads. Same with the movement keys.

So now I suppose that somebody qualified enough can make a TSR that can turn the mouse at a specified angle before starting doom2.exe ? That would make fast start even easier **

[myk]

VinceDSS said:
So now I suppose that somebody qualified enough can make a TSR that can turn the mouse at a specified angle before starting doom2.exe ? That would make fast start even easier **

That doesn't sound like something suitable for COMPET-N.

[Mr.TF]

VinceDSS said:

it's pretty easy to do a fast start on doom2.exe, as mentionned before for the keys you just have to press the keys you need

That's what I always do, but I haven't got any demo yet which would start form the first tic. Moreover sometimes I won't start running after loadup if 2 keys are pressed.

Is it be possible, that these are caused by Dosbox?

[Squonk]

When I record my demos, I simply use doom(2).exe on winXP, without anything else (except novert), and I never made a fast start. Believe me, I tried. The best I can do is a move at 0.26s.
So I think Dosbox doesn't change anything.

[Ryback]

Interesting. I wonder if the fact that Doom is being emulated (in both XP and DosBox) causes this? On Win98 and under Doom can see the hardware directly, and so if the keyboard buffer is filled during startup it can read the input from the first tic. Whereas under DosBox and Win XP the keyboard buffer is read by the controlling program, and input only passed if the program being emulated can accept it - which Doom won't in those first few tics? Something like that perhaps...

I think I'll try and record a quickstart demo under XP later.

[Ryback]

Nope, nothing like that... just managed to record a demo with GF50 on the first gametic.

This is on an ageing 2.8 P4, and Doom starts up in less than half a second, so you've got to be very quick holding down the keys. Maybe that's why it's so hard now - the game loads too fast.

[Squonk]

I guess I'll have to try again, then... Even if most of my demos doesn't need to be that quick.
Though, it would be nice to get 9s on e1m1... :)

[Opulent]

VinceDSS said:

it's pretty easy to do a fast start on doom2.exe, as mentionned before for the keys you just have to press the keys you need (like forward and strafe to one side). For the start angle, I think only mousers can do that, it's actually interesting to see how it works.

In true DOS, either MSDOS (with a mouse driver loaded) or win98 command line, if you move the mouse while in command line before hitting enter to load doom2.exe, the computer will record the move and start the player at a matching angle.

I noticed that when I was moving the mouse before hitting enter to reload the game, forcing me to restart to have the correct angle.

For most players, it is actually easy to find the correct angle after a few tries. And since you got to try hundreds of times or more to snatch a record, finding the angle becomes a routine you dont even think about.

In my case I do the mouse turning while the "refreshing daemon" loads. Same with the movement keys.

So now I suppose that somebody qualified enough can make a TSR that can turn the mouse at a specified angle before starting doom2.exe ? That would make fast start even easier **

Vincent is, of course, correct. In DOS, the environment/daemon for the game is initiated before the 'game' begins. The keystrokes are already 'pre-loaded' when the game is started.
A TSR, prboom-plus, NT-kernel emulation, wine modification of win32, etc... are all cheats. And natively in XP, the speed of the "DOS" emulation may prevent this event (as previously mentioned).
In my experience, even my demos that match the fastest records at PDang, the first bunch of gametics are still 'empty'.