"FreeHeretic" resources

[GreyGhost]

Captain Ventris said:

Excuse my ignorance, but what are the OA forums, and where can I find this NULL IWAD?

The OpenArena Message Boards. If you can't find it - ask leileilol.

[Stilgar]

Ajapted said:

Perhaps compatibility with existing Pwads should not be a goal of this project. In that case you'd be right and this would be closer to a "TC" than a drop-in IWAD replacement.

The current compromise is to make old PWADs runnable and have textures that loosely stand in for the look of the originals be loaded in the proper slots, without strictly making sure every little detail aligns in the same place. I'd probably be one of the first to bow out if I felt that pedantic replication for the sake of PWAD compatibility was taking the front seat to doing our own slant on it.

The way I see it:
- Unlike Doom, there aren't a lot of Heretic PWADs anyways...
- ...fewer that are actually worthwhile.
- No matter how close you make it, a Heretic map's not going to be "the way it was meant to be" unless you run it under the real Heretic.
- ...doubly so if it's a project that includes modded versions of the original textures and assumes them to match with the others.
- Being locked down to every little detail cuts off opportunities for making something a little more creative and interesting.
- Generally look at myk's occasional rants about FreeDoom and its goal of PWAD compatibility, I tend towards agreeing with them.

Now, that's my take on it. I'm not the end-all-and-be-all of the project's direction. That said, there are no plans to mod the gameplay functions, only the look and the game messages.

[esselfortium]

I agree that a new Heretic-inspired game would be more interesting (and would probably attract more attention for contributors) than an attempt at replacing its IWAD with similar-but-free material.

[NeoWorm]

Yesterday I mada some heretic-like hands. Originaly meant as hands carrying wand. Feel free to use them.

[Stilgar]

These don't look like they were made from scratch. Not acceptable for use, sorry.

[NeoWorm]

Yeah, your right - I used photos of my hands as base...

Seriously, they are from scratch. Thats why I am posting it here. I know the rules of Free-Games licenses and using copyrighted material...

[Gez]

Maybe you could post said photos of your hands as a proof of originality.

[Creaphis]

Oh come on, guys. Just because something is good doesn't mean it's illegal.

[Stilgar]

The wand from the original game sticking out of it does make it look pretty questionable, though.

[esselfortium]

What? He said in his post that he had originally made them to hold the wand, and he showed both the hands-only and with-wand version. You can pretty easily check for yourself whether his hands are the same as the ones holding that wand in Heretic.

[Creaphis]

Now that his hands have touched proprietary artwork, they are forever soiled.

Unclean! Unclean!

[jute]

Guys, there's no need to chastise us for wanting to make sure resources are acceptable. Several posts in this thread indicate that there are some people who wish to contribute but misunderstand the concept of free software, so the concern is a reasonable one. This kind of issue has arisen with FreeDoom in the past: http://www.doomworld.com/vb/freedoom/42189-fair-use-confession/

[esselfortium]

Uhhh...that's all well and good, but he said pretty clearly that the hands were created from a photo of his own hands.

[Captain Ventris]

THAT'S NO GOOD GOD WILL SUE US

[Creaphis]

Yeah, I wish he would release our personal appearances under a different license already. It's not like he's making any money from them. And that's just one of the issues - he repeatedly ignores all requests to put our genetic code under the GPL! At least he isn't cease-and-desisting the attempts to reverse engineer the binaries.

[GreyGhost]

Gez said:

Maybe you could post said photos of your hands as a proof of originality.

Post one of the hands - photos can be doctored. :P

The only issue I have with those hands is that the fingers look too tightly clenched to hold a wand.

[esselfortium]

They are clenched rather tightly. It looks like he's about to beat somebody over the head with that wand, which I guess isn't entirely a bad thing depending on what you intend your wand to be used for.

[NeoWorm]

Sorry but I really dont want to go through my stock photos just to find this one. Not to mention that I probably already deleted it.

[Enjay]

So, what some people are saying is "we assume that you are a liar until you can prove otherwise". Not the best way to encourage contributions.

They don't look like any hand sprites I know and if NeoWorm says they're his hands, that is surely good enough? For example, people don't normally ask to see the preliminary sketches for non-photo based sprites before believing that they are original.

[Creaphis]

esselfortium said:

They are clenched rather tightly. It looks like he's about to beat somebody over the head with that wand, which I guess isn't entirely a bad thing depending on what you intend your wand to be used for.

Maybe firing deadly bolts of raw, supernatural energy requires a steady grip.

[Captain Ventris]

Call me a wuss, but I'd be a little tense going toe-to-toe with the forces of Darkness.

[Creaphis]

I'm not worried - not if it's as easy as Heretic makes it look.

[40oz]

esselfortium said:

They are clenched rather tightly. It looks like he's about to beat somebody over the head with that wand, which I guess isn't entirely a bad thing depending on what you intend your wand to be used for.

Maybe those hands could be used for the staff, I thought butting the enemies lightly with the staff in Heretic was kinda lame, maybe a full swing like some of Hexens weapons would be more appropriate.

I also want to stress, that if you guys make a replacement, make them as similar to the gauntlets from Heretic as possible. The Gauntlets are undoubtedly one of the coolest weapons and if they are none too similar to the ones in Heretic I will be very ashamed. Maybe I'll draw something out for them.

[leileilol]

JohnnyRancid said:

make them as similar to the gauntlets from Heretic as possible.

Why? Are we remaking Heretic?

[kristus]

Creaphis said:

I'm not worried - not if it's as easy as Heretic makes it look.

Are you a magic wielding elf?

[Gez]

With the power of savegames, everything seems easy.

[Creaphis]

kristus said:

Are you a magic wielding elf?

Shoot, I guess not. I'd better go play some Dungeons and Dragons if I want to gain real power.

[NeoWorm]

JohnnyRancid said:

Maybe those hands could be used for the staff, I thought butting the enemies lightly with the staff in Heretic was kinda lame, maybe a full swing like some of Hexens weapons would be more appropriate.

Already in progress for my Corvus to HeXen/Sidhe plus mods. It will feature 4 different attacks and block.

[Captain Ventris]

Creaphis said:

Shoot, I guess not. I'd better go play some Dungeons and Dragons if I want to gain real power.

Ah, the wit! It burns! It burns!

[40oz]

leileilol said:

Why? Are we remaking Heretic?

Well there's been a lot of talk of making this more of a standalone game with it's own theme, rather than Heretic redone to be 'free'.