Sunder - Map20 Appears, finally.

[Arbys550]

I played through map17 again and found two bugs.

 

In the room with sector 3358, you can easily be softlocked if you cross only one of the linedefs that closes the door, open the door, then cross the other linedef. You should probably make the switch that opens the door repeatable. Also sector 4546 is non-damaging. Also were archviles deleted from the crusher section? I remember there being 4 or 5 archviles after the "turnaround point" in that area, but in this playthrough I came around the corner and there were literally no archviles at all. I doubt they died in infighting, since monsters can't target them, unless they killed themselves with splash damage. It is highly unlikely that this happened, though, because I just pressed the switch and ran to the beginning, not giving them a chance to get hit by other monsters. Who knows.

[Khaoscythe]

59 minutes ago, Arbys550 said:

I played through map17 again and found two bugs.

 

In the room with sector 3358, you can easily be softlocked if you cross only one of the linedefs that closes the door, open the door, then cross the other linedef. You should probably make the switch that opens the door repeatable. Also sector 4546 is non-damaging. Also were archviles deleted from the crusher section? I remember there being 4 or 5 archviles after the "turnaround point" in that area, but in this playthrough I came around the corner and there were literally no archviles at all. I doubt they died in infighting, since monsters can't target them, unless they killed themselves with splash damage. It is highly unlikely that this happened, though, because I just pressed the switch and ran to the beginning, not giving them a chance to get hit by other monsters. Who knows.

 

By the looks of things when I played through that section some/most of the AVs were removed, as I recall only running into 2 or 3 in that section not counting the 2 stashed away with the Cyberdemon by the corner switch room. What I also noticed was the Cyberdemon within the vicinity of the switch that initiates the teleport party that wasn't there before.

Edited January 26, 2020 by Khaoscythe

[Archviler]

Hi, I don't know is this has been reported yet but I found a way to escape the first fight in map 16.

 

 

Get on that low step and you can run across the fencing to get back behind the barrier. This lets you finish off the battle at your leisure, once all the infighting is done. Once it's done?

 

 

Get on the first step use that to hop onto the fencing, and then run straight to the fenced in torch. Creep carefully around the edge and go around, then drop back in past the barrier.

[Archviler]

Quick follow up question about map 18: When you reach the room with the YSK, are you supposed to be able to take the lift in the corner up, run along the perimeter of the room, hit the switch to kick off the fight and then drop down the side? Doing so avoids the trigger to lower the bars that traps you in the throne room, so you can retreat back outside and fight at a distance.

 

 

 

[Insane_Gazebo]

25 minutes ago, Archviler said:

Quick follow up question about map 18: When you reach the room with the YSK, are you supposed to be able to take the lift in the corner up, run along the perimeter of the room, hit the switch to kick off the fight and then drop down the side? Doing so avoids the trigger to lower the bars that traps you in the throne room, so you can retreat back outside and fight at a distance.

 

 

 

 

That is not intentional, no. Just a little bug that got missed during testing. (Largely because the lifts aren't very well telegraphed so a lot of players missed them initially.)

 

Thanks for all the little exploits/bugs you (and everyone else) are finding, I'll make sure to address them if possible during the next big update.

[Archviler]

No problem, glad to help.

[Insane_Gazebo]

Work on this map is slowly getting there.

[tchkb]

Glitch in MAP04 (unless it's intentional): Sector 549 crusher is not merged with all the other corresponding crushers in the chamber and its ceiling is set to very low value, so it has a very short cycle and barely lifts off the floor.

There's also several cases in maps 03 and 13 (and maybe a few more I'm forgetting about) where you set multiple linedefs to close path behind player (understandably done for safety so you can't bypass it), which frequently leads to doors slamming right in front of player's nose and requiring backtracking to switches that open them, unless player is very careful to only cross the particular linedef he crossed earlier or intentionally triggers every single one of them in advance. You could avoid this by tying these linedefs to a voodoo script that only activates and closes these doors once.

[Archviler]

Hi, I found an exploit in map 16. In the first battle after the first building, you fight a bunch of imps and barons after you hit the switch seen below.

 

 

If you run from about where the image shows and angle it just right, you can get to the switch without hitting the linedef to block the way you came. It takes a bit of practice, you have to get on the platform as late as possible and with good running speed or you'll trip the linedef. Should you do so, hit the switch, go past it once it lowers and back around. The way back won't be barred, so you can return to the previous room and trivialize the encounter with almost no risk of falling or damage. It turns the encounter into a skeet shoot, since all the monsters will chase you and line up on the archvile platform past the door in, so you can rocket them at your leisure.

[FlakTaryd]

As I was playing Map 15: Babylon's Chimera, there was significant framerate drops in some sections of the map. Which some peeps pointed out as I'm aware of. I'm currently running on GZDoom with an Nvidia GTX 560. It's maybe why there's lag in some maps with the amount of detail they have. Hive Mother has some lag in some places but manageable and playable. I really love Sunder to death, one beast of a slaughter megawad. Looking forward to see more of it, I_G!   

[Insane_Gazebo]

Hello everyone, the new map is here!

 

A few notes on the new map:

 

- It's an insanely long map. Longest so far. Take breaks!

- Hope you like lots of close quarter fighting with cyberdemons. 

- Some of the voodoo scroller speeds won't be consistent between ports, but after extensive testing it's fairly clear this shouldn't break anything.

- There's a texture alignment bug in GlBoom due to that old sky flat/unpegged texture issue.

- Yes I hit the line limit again.

- Performance could be an issue on older machines.

 

I've gone back and done some very minor tweaking to older maps, but nothing major. So some bugs you guys have reported on are probably still there.

 

Sorry for the delay, but the Mapwich 2 map I have made with Dac ate up a fair bit of my attention. :) 

 

Have fun.

 

 

[rehelekretep]

oh my

[Insane_Gazebo]

Oh, whoops. There's a softlock I managed to add in there just before uploading it. Fix incoming. 

 

Edit: Fixed! (OP Link updated.)

Edited April 9, 2020 by Insane_Gazebo

[Grain of Salt]

If your maps get much bigger (maybe 10% bigger than map19?) they'll probably start hitting the size limit (the one which makes something similar to the allghosts bug happen at the start).

 

Also, as I posted about ages ago before you came back, I had a prophetic (I assume) dream that sunder map20 had a fish-shaped area*, and I hope you don't let me down in this regard :l

 

* - https://www.doomworld.com/forum/topic/68979-do-you-have-any-corrupted-doom-memories/?tab=comments#comment-1277353

 

Edited April 9, 2020 by Grain of Salt

[Linguica]

Map shot for the unwary:

 

Spoiler

 

[Btyb88]

I was about to go play some more Eternal, but then map19 happened.

[NuMetalManiak]

That moment with the cacodemons pouring from the mouth at the north end of the map is fucking epic.

[Archviler]

1 hour ago, Grain of Salt said:

If your maps get much bigger (maybe 10% bigger than map19?) they'll probably start hitting the size limit (the one which makes something similar to the allghosts bug happen at the start).

 

I was wondering if Sunder was getting close to engine limitations. Map 19 really feels like it pushes it.

 

Also seconding the cacodemon swarm being a great moment.

[Khaoscythe]

Ugh I work in a while... won't be able to deal with this until after midnight. Definitely gonna stream some attempts in though when I get the time.

 

Edit: Map 19 is pretty boring to say the least, probably won't bother finishing this one.

Edited April 17, 2020 by Khaoscythe
*yawn*

[j4rio]

The new monster still breaks in prb+ 2.5.1.3, just hangs from the ceiling motionless. Other more up to date prb+ versions don't work on my end.

[baja blast rd.]

21 minutes ago, j4rio said:

Other more up to date prb+ versions don't work on my end.

 

But do they work on your computer?

[j4rio]

They do, but some intermittent lags happen in all version from 1.4 and above, basically making things unplayable.

[Insane_Gazebo]

7 hours ago, Grain of Salt said:

If your maps get much bigger (maybe 10% bigger than map19?) they'll probably start hitting the size limit (the one which makes something similar to the allghosts bug happen at the start).

 

Also, as I posted about ages ago before you came back, I had a prophetic (I assume) dream that sunder map20 had a fish-shaped area*, and I hope you don't let me down in this regard :l

 

* - https://www.doomworld.com/forum/topic/68979-do-you-have-any-corrupted-doom-memories/?tab=comments#comment-1277353

 

 

I've actually been running into some minor issues in this regard - especially sound echoing across the map. Usually this only means being able to hear monsters or similar things from one side to the other, but I've been trying to keep my map limited to about 20k units from the center. Seems to be a fairly safe number. 

 

(Moving monster closets closer to the center and the like seems to fix this issue, thankfully.)

 

As for fish shaped areas, I can't promise anything in Map20 except lots of bone textures :)

 

- I'm also aware there are some issues with some voodoo scrollers in Map19 in some ports. (Eternity especially.) I'll have to get around to redesigning those to adhere to the speeds that are more reliable across ports. I was hoping the differences would be small, but it's clear they are not in some cases.

 

3 hours ago, j4rio said:

They do, but some intermittent lags happen in all version from 1.4 and above, basically making things unplayable.

 

This is really sad to hear, j4rio. :( I assume those are the only ports you can run reliably? (GZDoom, for example, not being playable?)

[j4rio]

From what I've tried, zdoom and its derivatives don't handle sunder well. I was thinking maybe having the monster as a separate wad and load it alongside the main one could work around it? But I have honestly no idea.

[3saster]

 

 

10 minutes ago, Insane_Gazebo said:

I've actually been running into some minor issues in this regard - especially sound echoing across the map. Usually this only means being able to hear monsters or similar things from one side to the other, but I've been trying to keep my map limited to about 20k units from the center. Seems to be a fairly safe number. 

Might not be a bad idea to throw a smaller map in there once in a while. Not every map needs to be multi-hour adventures that almost blow up the engine; a single hour one would be okay sometimes too! :P

 

3 minutes ago, j4rio said:

From what I've tried, zdoom and its derivatives don't handle sunder well. I was thinking maybe having the monster as a separate wad and load it alongside the main one could work around it? But I have honestly no idea.

GZDoom can handle the larger maps okay, but you need a good setup. What are your specs anyway? The PrBoom+ issue seems like an issue on your end. In any case, perhaps try Eternity?

[j4rio]

I use only crappy laptops, no fancy rigs. So far prb+ seemed to be the only port I could make it comfortably work on.

 

In any case, I can't think of any reason why a custom monster would break in different prb+ versions.

[Insane_Gazebo]

45 minutes ago, j4rio said:

I use only crappy laptops, no fancy rigs. So far prb+ seemed to be the only port I could make it comfortably work on.

 

In any case, I can't think of any reason why a custom monster would break in different prb+ versions.

 

Tried GZDoom in GL or Vulcan? It's not as good as PrBoom+ in GL, but it's fairly solid. (Map15 will still be pretty bad, but it's Map15.)

[Turin Turambar]

It worked fine for me in the current version of GZDoom.

[OniriA]

22 hours ago, Grain of Salt said:

I had a prophetic (I assume) dream that sunder map20 had a fish-shaped area*, and I hope you don't let me down in this regard :l

 

15 hours ago, Insane_Gazebo said:

As for fish shaped areas, I can't promise anything in Map20 except lots of bone textures :)

 

 

So, fishbones then?

 

Spoiler

 

Yes, that's s fish too.

 

[Krull]

.

Edited September 2, 2023 by Krull