1994 tune-up challenge (*updated /idgames link*)

[traversd]

Hi All,

Back from my trip (roof racks didn't fall off either!) and have done some more work on ORIGWAD and WILLE1M1.

WILLE1M1 - I made changes per the comments from playtesting and have done some small touches to the 3d windows (I've lowered them a bit and changed the texturing in the room a little.

http://t.underworldgamers.com/wp-content/uploads/td-wille1m1.zip

ORIGWAD - I've reworked the entry into the map slightly to (hopefully) prevent a player breaking the entry sequence. I also used a voodoo to activate the main "trap" of the level and have added in a DM start area and items (It will be a pretty chaotic and "die-shoot-die" affair but I felt I needed to keep it within the original area of the map).

http://t.underworldgamers.com/wp-content/uploads/td-origwad.zip

Thanks again for the comments.

How is everyone else going with their tune-ups? I'm going to give LEDGES another chance before I decide to can the idea I had for it.

Also, I think we've tested all maps that have been uploaded yeh? If you have a map and it hasn't had any playtesting love let us know.

Cheers
-t

[Super Jamie]

traversd said:

Also, I think we've tested all maps that have been uploaded yeh?

I was gonna run thru them all, next in line is MAP20. Not necessarily to criticize others testing, just many eyes make all bugs shallow :)

[traversd]

Had a chance to playthrough AB's Elements tune-up.

I echo Super Jamie's comments. Not sure if AB is looking to make any further changes to the map at this point but there are a few areas that could be looked at further for updating.

I noticed in the starting area the player can no longer see the red key which I think is a good thing (that the player can see the key and work out how to get it).

TBH the start area screams to me "courtyard" in terms of getting tuned-up (show the sky and build the area up to feel like just inside a castle's walls perhaps).

+1 for the light style in the connecting corridor behind the redkey door.

Something that has been left the same as the original and is probably a negative that the original needs fixed is the area with the chainsaw and 2 cacos, and the area with the 4 Cacos and plasma secret - These areas need to be reconfigured if possible to allow the player to enter the area before the Cacos come into play, or substantially widen the hallway/door into them as the fights for these two areas were through the door way, not inside. Same could be said for the baron in the middle of the yellow key stairs. it kinda gets stuck in there with the steps and you attack through the arch. perhaps if the stairs were block monster it would corral? the baron out into the greater area.

Now that I've figured it out I'd recommend it to everyone - AB get transfer heights and lights happening for the lava and the marble room floor detailing (which looked awesome!). I think it makes things alot simpler.

Also - Linedefs 905, 917 and 931 are tagged to open doors but I can't see sectors with related tags.

Good stuff AB. Hope you keep crankin on it :o)

EDIT: Meant to also mention - The entry to sector 44 feels a touch awkward. Perhaps drag vertex 347 down to merge with vertex 346?

Also the exit is another example of not being able to enter the are for combat - although player can actually just rush the exit room and exit. I note there is a w1 teleport linedef to get one of the Baron's behind the player but it didn't seem to work? Maybe rig it so that 1 baron *always* tp's behind the player. But again I think a but more width/area for the player is needed.

Cheers,
-t

[traversd]

HELIPAD tune-up by Snarboo

Looking at the original. Man is it a 1994 wad. I don't mean that to sound harsh it's simply that the map really exudes the infancy of mapping back then. Bad texturing, special linedefs that don't have a matching tag, extreme use of heights and broken gameplay logic in some parts (read:a puzzle). Also the exit is unlocked and accessible to the player immediately (although the author admits that the goal of the map is to reach the soulsphere, and then exit).

Snarboo has taken out the puzzle element which lets the map work better I think. There is probably room to address the configure some of the amount of lifts but at present it is staying true to the original (not a bad thing).

At the start I'd recommend moving the UAC sign out from the wall further to get the full shadow effect (currently it doesn't really present to the player much unless they go right up to it). Perhaps also remove the candles on the helipad and replace with small 8unit high sectors for landing lights?

It would be good to perhaps lower the midbar tex in the main hub and rig it so things like the lost souls etc can come over the top. There isn't too much of an issue if a player managed to jump it as you can get down there via a lift straight away. This is something that I noticed a bit in the map. Snarboo has used block monster (as you do) to keep monsters sectioned off in places but in some areas it stops the monsters from fighting effectively. Where I think this could be changed is in the yellow key room. linedef's 1815 and 1817 trap a demon who has no distance attack and the player can safely be rid of it. Up on the higher area with the lunch tables another demon is stuck behind a block monster line, additionally the lost souls in this area can't attack the player easily due to the block monster linedefs as well. Perhaps change these monsters to imps or another distance attacking monster if you want to retain the block monster flags? The red key room is pretty cool and lends itself well to an ambush - perhaps load up a few more monsters in there with the HWD?

The plasma room theme felt a bit out of place for me sorry. I get the whole office/desk thing but perhaps if it stays in the same theme as the red key room it would fit a bit better?

lifts in sectors 334 and 456 have walk linedefs at the top but really don't need it I think. TBH I'd probably ditch the lift at 334 and put in stairs so the monsters can advance easier on the player. The teleport in this room sort of confused me. I think it's meant to be a "shortcut" to the blue key. but it kinda sidesteps the other path which is ok, but the player can't reverse navigate the full path.

The triangular nullspace right after the blue key door seems to stop monsters from advancing on the player and they (the player) can easily pick them off from the doorway.

lastly I'd look to pump up the "resistance" encountered heading to the exit. the 2 HWD's whilst catching me off guard felt like the start of a big fight but was all I had to beat.

Thanks,
Travers

[traversd]

TUNNELS tune-up by 40oz

Goddamn the texturing in the original is mad, but the layout is pretty solid. As the name suggests there are a "few" tunnels but there are enough larger areas breaking any monotony that could have crept in.

40oz's tune-up is really good. Very faithful to the original - but the map's texturing overall has put it light years ahead in looks, but kept the gameplay well. I played on HMP and found that I missed the shotgun at the start but got the chaingun and played most of the level with it until I finally came across a sargent. You definitely feel an "upping" of difficulty at the half-way point (entering the area with the rocket launcher). Still I found there was plenty of ammo on hand, the chaingun was the best weapon for the tunnels with the ssg making appearances if needed.

I seem to be a stickler for block monster tags :o) Sorry guys. This map has a heap of them, mostly to assist with keeping monsters consistent in the tunnels, which works ok mostly but points where we'd probably want the player to really run and be chased (AV room) get softened a bit I think. The RL area has them with stops the lost souls from being able to attack the player effectively and they end up being more target practice or even infight bait than a threat. Perhaps change the lost souls to cacos or something with a distance attack? (or lessen the block monster tags).

The map felt easy but not safe if that makes sense. I think this was largely due to the maps style (you face only a few monsters at a time in the tunnels and when there are multiple ones you usually have a small door way, entrance to snipe from (or a block monster tag helps you). Not sure if you're to muck with the map that much 40oz but maybe some ambush rooms, some wider sections of tunnels with mutliple monsters or - I noticed most of the monsters in the tunnels are deaf. Since ou have block monster linedefs everywhere letting them hear you might add a bit of "random" placement and chances of getting caught out from a few different directions?

The use of non-hurting nukage is OK but I kept walking on it thinking, I should be hurting. There are 3 main parts with the nukage - the RL area, the yellow key door area and the tunnel area prior to the blue key room. Perhaps these could be "turned hurty" ;o) just the 2/5 health one, with some periodic respite blocks to stand on and a few rad suits hanging about. If the player had to watch their footing it would make the final fight with the spider MM more involved/complex.

Sector 84 is not aligned to the grid and so the tp flats don't line up.

The area with the yellow key door, the exit room and the green armour secret needs to be tagged to the special linedef (271 set sky).

Really good effort 40oz. well done.

Thanks,
Travers

[traversd]

FORTIFIED CASTLE tune-up by Krispavera

Looking at the original I'm beginning to think tunnels "eclectic" texturing was the result of updates patches/textures not loading/being loaded :o) oh well. The original fortcstl looks quite nice actually dressed up in Heretic textures.

Krispavera's update looks great. Very true to the original - keeping all the block monster tags too ;o) Some of my comments below are true for the original as well as I think as much as Krispavera has stuck to the original theres room for some alterations.

The blue key texture you have to lure the player to walk over the linedef and lower sector 36 is just that. very luring. It would be interesting to see if the majority of players head for the first without seeing the mancubus arena.

Sector 210 (hallway towards blue key) - perhaps widen to 128units or so? It shouldnt impact on the maps area overall and lets the imps have some space to move about instead of be lined up for easy kills. Sector 18 at the start is a candidate for this too. It would also give the HK's more access to the player instead of the 64unit doorway.

Also in reference to the paragraph re:why I went this way first perhaps put a yellow key lock on linedef 1302. I'd also show the yellow columns and lower them with tag 31 to show that the columns at the exit have lowered as well.

The baron room with the medkit (sector 106) is a bit weird (sorry, don't mean to sound rude). The original had it as well. There's not much there for the player other than a medkit. I'm not sure what to put there specifically. Perhaps remove the other backpacks and put just the one in there. I also noticed that on skill1&2 the SSG is absent at the start - I'd prolly go as far to say perhaps just have a SG at the start for all skills and put the SSG in the baron room.

In the crypt area with the mancs which have doors that open and then close, the closing aspect was a bit odd - would it be an option to change it so the doors stay open? In terms of fighting the mancs or collecting the items in the rooms once the doors shut you had to walk back around again and repeat the process which was a bit frustrating.

The Soulsphere on the tp. Is it ok to take it off the pad? Whenever I see this sort of setup I wonder if I collected the item before I teleported :o)

The area with the plats heading towards the yellow key (and the room before the manc arena with the plats) reckon they could be reconfigured to have stairs? The original had moving plats which felt even more out of place with the theme I think. You would need to alter the heights of the yellow key area but 6 64unit steps with a 128 landing in the middle for the two side rooms would be cool I think. Maybe even add some "midbar" windows for the SG guys to snipe the player as they go past? Doing so would let the player enter the horse shoe area at the same level as the monsters as well.

The corridor to the manc arena felt really tight, could this be widened? Perhaps even a door that locks the player in to stop sniping from the entryway? Chuck a switch to open the door in the plasma room ;o)

The exit area with the cyber/AV would be more involved if the block monster tags were culled to let them enter the manc arena (if that was done I'd leave both the AV and Cyb in on hard >:o)

@Snarboo: I hope my comments that are encouraging changes to map gameplay are OK? I kinda see them as improving the original gameplay where there was a fault of some kind.

Sweet effort Krispavera. Very clean and visually appealing style you have I think.

Thanks,
Travers

EDIT: Also meant to mention the tp linedef 1432, perhaps change destination to sector 12 as landing in the side hall felt a bit disorientating.

[Walter confetti]

Dear kids, i giving up with hell hotel remake.

Whatever for who wants to see and use my part of the map, here it is:

http://www.mediafire.com/?gewymzyddwo

[Snarboo]

Sorry to see you give up, walter, but thank you for releasing what you had done. :)

I'm currently mulling over a big decision related to this project. I'll probably make a post later this evening about it.

[pavera]

Thanks for the reply, traversd. Yeah a lot of those things you've mentioned are factors I've been (very) slowly looking at and changing. The baron room with the medikit (sector 106) was strange to me as well. Like you said, I was trying as best as I could to stick to the original fairly closely (minus the bucket loads of ammo and health), and I honestly didn't know what to do with that room. Also, you might have noticed the room isn't centered in the sector which just looks even weirder.

Anyways, I'll certainly address your comments and upload a new version whenever I get enough time and willpower to do so. Thanks again for the review!

[Snarboo]

Alright, I've mulled this over the entire President's Day weekend: would anyone mind if I instated a deadline for this project? The reason I am considering this because I want this project to be finished before the end of the year, hopefully before summer ends.

There would be two deadlines: the first being a submission deadline and the second being a completion deadline. Submissions would not have to be perfect but merely entered by a certain date. The completion deadline requires that the submitted maps be bug fixed and working in the intended source port. Already submitted maps would not be subject to the submission deadline, merely the completion deadline.

I feel this would give the project a better structure, one that I need more than anyone else. I've let this project flounder a bit over the last few months, and I want to start wrapping this up. I also feel this would streamline testing by creating a testing period after all maps have been submitted.

I'm opening this discussion to everyone since this is a community project. What do you guys think of this?

[ArmouredBlood]

Sounds good boss.

About my 2 maps, I think I changed a few things but forgot to upload them, I'll see what's up with that ...

[maggot202]

I support the deadline. You need to realize that a lot of your mappers would quit (formally, since there are many guys that never posted anymore). But, if you don't put this deadline, this project may never be finished. As for me, i got myself an office work, and in march i return to my last undergrad year, so i'm depending on the deadline to decide if I continue or I release what i have done with COMCON in hopes that somebody picks it up.

[Walter confetti]

ok

[Fletcher`]

maggot202 said:

I support the deadline. You need to realize that a lot of your mappers would quit (formally, since there are many guys that never posted anymore). But, if you don't put this deadline, this project may never be finished. As for me, i got myself an office work, and in march i return to my last undergrad year, so i'm depending on the deadline to decide if I continue or I release what i have done with COMCON in hopes that somebody picks it up.

If people DO quit, I'm more than capable of picking up maps if need be. Its not like I have a life or anything. :P

[Snarboo]

It seems enough people support this, but before I enact this, here are the planned deadlines:

• April 5th would be the submission deadline. This would give anyone who wanted to submit a map roughly a month to do so. A submitted map doesn't have to be perfect, it just needs to be posted by that date.
  
• August 1st would be the completion deadline. This would give us four months, plenty of time, to test and refine our maps.

I'll start working on the first post and getting this information ready.

[GreyGhost]

Sounds good to me, deadlines usually help me to focus on a task.

[tatsurd-cacocaco]

Hey! The last version of "Ice Nightmare 2" tuned up is here.

Masayan can't treat foreign uploder sites well, but Japanese uploder sites might bother everyone. Therefore, I upload it as a substitute.

[Snarboo]

Thank you tatsurd! I've added Masayan's map to the first post.

Alright, I've updated the first post with the new deadlines. Please read over them carefully. Everybody is subject to the submission and completion deadlines, even me. If your map is not submitted before April 15th, it will be dropped from the project.

@traversd: The download link to WILLE1M1 is dead. Could you please re-upload it?

@Mr. Freeze: I have your maps and have added them to the first post. However, could you please repackage them in a zip file with he original map and its readme? I ask out of convenience.

*@EVERYBODY:* If you have a problem hosting your map or only have access to a time limited download host, please consider using DRD Team's file uploader. It is free to register and you have access to 300 megs of storage. This is where I host all of my maps and mods.

I hope to see more maps in the coming days. Have fun! :D

[Super Jamie]

I'm only a tester but I thought I'd mention I'm away overseas for most of April and will be back before May 1st.

[Snarboo]

That's fine. Speaking of which, if any of you have a legitimate reason why you cannot submit a map by April 15th, please let me know. I am willing to make an exception for being absent during the deadline.

[traversd]

Snarboo said:

@traversd: The download link to WILLE1M1 is dead. Could you please re-upload it?

The link I posted at the top of this page works. The link on the 1st page has an extra '1' on the end which used to work when wordpress was giving me some grief :)

http://t.underworldgamers.com/wp-content/uploads/td-wille1m1.zip

Deadline stuff is cool Snarboo. Hope to see a few more submissions before then to test.

Cheers,
-travers

[GreyGhost]

Snarboo said: (way back in the OP)

Missing and improperly formatted maps:

• Lareman - Hades House of Horrors Part 2 (missing link to finished version)
  

If this post's any guide I'd say Lareman's dropped out. Did anyone manage to grab a copy of the finished map?

[Mr. Freeze]

GreyGhost said:

If this post's any guide I'd say Lareman's dropped out. Did anyone manage to grab a copy of the finished map?

I'll take it over if no one else wants to.

[Snarboo]

I'll mark you down for it either way.

[Walter confetti]

wait for fixed version of nefcat and pie...
i'm ok with deadline.

[Walter confetti]

NEFCAT-RMX.WAD V2

http://wadhost.fathax.com/files/nefcat_rmx-v2.zip

EDIT: Fixed nodes version here http://www.mediafire.com/?nlzmonntnot and yes, is mediafire...

enjoy

[lareman]

Sorry for loooong silence.
Download: http://www.speedyshare.com/files/21127331/HHH-22TU.wad

[traversd]

Hi All,

I'm dropping Ledges now. It's proving a bit of a fruitless exercise at present as I'm struggling to come up with ideas for it - and cant see it being done by April 15.

I have found and started to "tune-up" techbase.wad originally made by Brandon Reinhart.

Thanks,
Travers

[Snarboo]

Alright, the first post has been updated with recent changes. :)

[Walter confetti]

Hey snarboo, why don't you use the mediafire link for nefarious chateau on first page?