1994 tune-up challenge (*updated /idgames link*)

[MajorRawne]

I'm not sure if anyone has playtested my map, Woodhalls2/Rawnwood, but I had a run through of it now and really enjoyed it until I ran out of ammo - I remember this criticism from back in the day. Also, the door leading out of the first room seems to have stopped working.

I generally like this map but there is some fixing to be done so I'd like to have some time to get the ammo balance right plus make some other minor fixes. I'm very proud that this is my first map as I think it is quite a good effort.

[GreyGhost]

Have you checked your PMs lately? Rawnwood's been playtested and in your absence traversd made some changes to deal with issues that were reported, I wandered through recently to add the Sky Transfers, align textures and deal with a few niggling issues. It's Map12 in the current Alpha Release if you want to see what sort of mess we've made of it.

Snarboo said:

For starters, I've considered a 24 hour tune-up challenge with a custom texture set.

What do you guys think?

I'm interested, just don't let me choose a large map.

[MajorRawne]

Whoops, how embarrassing, everything I said in my post has been addressed in my PMs... sorry chaps, I didn't realise :)

Thank you for the welcome messages as well. I am glad that people enjoyed the map and for the most part I am really pleased with it. The ammo balance brings the game to a crashing halt halfway through as already noted and I am going to add a few backpacks and boxes of ammo. Health doesn't really seem to be an issue as there are a couple of secrets, one of which is in the library which I recall some people missed. I deliberately avoided placing suits of armour to make health and armour bonuses feel more precious, and also to be a bit different.

So I'm planning to address these issues in this order:

* Improved ammo balance
* More secret areas (some of the existing secrets are intentionally very hard to find for replayability)
* Making it somewhat more obvious where to go after you kill your way through the library and enter the switch room (I remember some people didn't "get" the way the switch room lowers bars which are colour-coded or display a noticeable texture, giving you a clue as to which barriers are being lowered throughout the map)
* Greatly upgrading the crusher corridor, which was supposed to be a dark and fraught nightmare but is actually too easy to get through and has repetitive monster placement
* Texture alignment and HOMS

I can't fix these issues:

* Music cuts out and loops back to beginning halfway through chorus
* When firing rockets upstairs at the Mancubus ledge in the blue side of the start chamber, the rockets detonate against nothing and barely harm the Mancubi - I might lower the ledges, but this could detract from the first room's sheer visual impact.
* Sky textures - I'm out of my depth with this one for now and am having the same problem in my other map, slowrot.wad.

[GreyGhost]

MajorRawne said:

I can't fix these issues:

* Music cuts out and loops back to beginning halfway through chorus

A quick test I did with XMPlay suggests the track's a bit loud at the end to loop properly. I'm not familiar with the tune, should it run longer than 3:09?

[MajorRawne]

I know less about midi music than I do about the fundamentals of quantum mechanics mate, but the track I've got is over 10 minutes long. Is there a maximum length to tracks Doom can support?

PS It is a really, really awesome piece of music, heh.

[GreyGhost]

One figure I've seen thrown about for source ports is 300k, though I don't have a midi long enough to test that. Where did you find this track and what have you played it with - apart from Doom?

[traversd]

Snarboo said:

In other news, I've been considering what comes next for the tune-up challenge project. There are enough maps for a second project, and it seems people are interested, so it's definitely feasible. I'm thinking that if there was going to be another one, it would slightly different from the first. For starters, I've considered a 24 hour tune-up challenge with a custom texture set.

What do you guys think?

Well I must say that I'm making something of a "mapping bucket list" at present. Mainly maps/ideas I want to do at some point in time. There are a few 1994 maps that I see real potential in for using as a base. Although I'll admit I'd been thinking of doing them one at a time and releasing individually as time and enthusiasm permits.

I see the potential in using existing maps for a speedmap session. I've come to the conclusion though that I'm not a fast mapper. Not sure if it would work in practice but would be interesting to see say 8-10 maps used as a base for a speedmapping session. Then sometime down the track, the same maps get worked on in subsequent speedmap sessions (possibly by different authors, and any changes bar starting from scratch are allowed). Would be interesting how given time to look at a particular set of maps people might see improvements or alterations, and then after say 3 months how others would see those changes etc. I think that made sense? Kind of like protracted chain-mapping *L*

-t

[MajorRawne]

How do I make the door from my first room open up when all the Mancs are dead? Also it's very awkward trying to kill them high up on the ledges - the intention was to dodge them initially then kill them later, when you get up onto the ledges. I can lower the ledges but it would involve even more fething about to get the details right and amend loads of sector heights. This is for the Rawnwood map BTW.

[traversd]

Yeh, I agree about the height difference. At the time I was working on the map I decided against changing things to make the height difference 192 instead of 256, mainly for my own time reasons I'm afraid.

How the door opens is using a voodoo doll setup and the mancs are in a sector that is trying to close (like a door). Once the last manc dies and the sector can close it causes the voodoo doll to activate the door out of the room.

I did this because the first room feels very "sitting duck/ambush" in it's layout but originally, as you say, the player can run straight through the room and pick them off later on.

Maybe you could raise the first rooms floor instead of what I was looking at doing in lowering the ledges with the mancs? All you would need to do is build in some steps to lower down to the exits of the first room and the starting room could be raised 64units with the first room completely. I reckon that will work better.

EDIT: I just loaded it up and raised the floor of the first room by 64 units and it feels a lot better. I also raised both ceiling and floor of the starting area and the hidden baron room to the left of the starting area. To marry up with the rest of the level again you could put stairs in the corridor just after the locked door in the first room and also in the small "bridging" room with some lost souls to the right of the starting area.

-t

[MajorRawne]

I've tried to combine your idea with mine, since I'd already thought "bugger it" and changed the ceiling heights. I've started amending the floor heights as well. I do think there is an improvement, although I am firmly in the beginner's trap of over-detailing. I've just spent an hour working on the start room alone. As my first map to be released I'm really proud of it, I've got Alien Vendetta in mind when it comes to attention to detail, it's just taking forever.

I'll build some stairs up from the hallway in which the player(s) actually deploy into the first room with the Mancubi. Also I'm running through the map adding more ammo for the shotgun and removing some Lost Souls. There are far too many of the burning buggers at the moment and it's just annoying.

How can I upload just my map without uploading the rest of the megawad? I'm bogging down again and need someone to have a look at the map.

[GreyGhost]

MajorRawne said:

How can I upload just my map without uploading the rest of the megawad? I'm bogging down again and need someone to have a look at the map.

If you're using Slade -

• Open the wad and locate your map
• Create a new wad <File/New/Wad Archive>
• Highlight and copy/paste the map lumps (from the MAP12 marker down to BLOCKMAP) to the new wad
• Save the wad - don't forget to give it a name

With XWE it's a matter of saving the lumps, creating a new wad and loading the lumps into it - hoping you don't get them horribly out of order while doing so.

If you get stuck - send me a link and I'll extract the map for you.

[traversd]

In DoomBuilder2 you use the "save map into" option in the file menu to save just that map into another (or new) wad file.

In Slade2 you use the "save standalone map" to do the same.

For uploading I recommend mediafire. That's how I've posted the last few alpha releases and its worked fine I think. Did not have to register either (I think it is a cookie based login or something?)

[MajorRawne]

Thanks chaps, I'll use the DB2 option since I cannot get fething XWE to work on my laptop any more, even though it worked last year. I've got Slade 3 but have not used it yet, I'm scared of new editors and stuff in case I ruin my wad files and somehow bring about the end of the universe by pressing the wrong button. It could happen.

EDIT: I've really buggered the start area up by messing with the heights but I think it's getting there. The Mancubi don't seem to react unless you provoke them greatly, and I mean hitting them with a couple of rockets.

[traversd]

That's ok. I can look at it once you've made your other fixes if you'd like.

[MajorRawne]

Ok mate I'll get it uploaded tomorrow when I'm not working. Curse my 12-8 shifts. It's not that I need a lot of help exactly, I'm just getting bogged down with details, and some of the original sector heights were silly values, making it very hard to get everything aligned.

[Phobus]

Sorry for leaving everybody hanging, but I've got 4 days to go until everything is finished. Then I'll get on with the map-finishing process. Thanks all for being patient, and sorry again for holding everybody up!

[Megamur]

This is probably the WAD I'm looking forward to the most. I've played so many `94 maps. Make my bad memories go away, guys! :)

[MajorRawne]

If this project is a success I want to sign up for the next 94 tune up, or maybe a 95 tune up... it's been a very tough learning curve but I'd be lying if I didn't say Doom mapping gives me a real buzz and has massively encouraged my creative side. Editing someone else's map is also helpful for a beginner as I can see how and why the map works, which is invaluable, and the sense of achievement I feel when I compared Rawnwood.wad to the original Woodhal2.wad is nice :)

[Megamur]

I actually really liked Woodhal2 and was even considering making a Woodhal3, funny enough. I'm excited to see what you've done with it.

[Snarboo]

Just as a heads up, I'm going on vacation on the 6th of June for 3 weeks. I probably won't be here on the 6th or 7th, but progress shouldn't stop or slow down because I'm bringing all my resources with me.

[Phobus]

I've finally got a day with some free time in it (not tons mind, but some), so I'll be sure to put some time into Infinity Plus today when I'm not otherwise disposed. Likewise I'll get some sort of evidence of progress up here to prove that I am indeed working on it.

[MajorRawne]

Megamur: if all goes to plan, you will not be disappointed at all, I'm tremendously proud of it for my first map. There's just a question of ammo balance and the whole start area to tweak. Then it should be playable, in beta form at least.

[Phobus]

Ok, late again, but here's a progress report. Looking at the map in DoomBuilder I'd say I've done about a third of the work. It's mostly been cleaning up and theming the start area, the nukage area and the corridor secret to the rocket launcher. I've removed a lot of the things and just kept the key elements, and the theme is being kept mostly intact. I'll put a lot of work in tomorrow as I should be free from distraction again. Here's some screens to show my work:

Player Start area:


Crushers opposite player start:


Nukage area:


Past the nukage area, looking back:


Rocket Launcher secret:


Corridor to RL secret:


As you can see from these shots, the majority of my work has been tidying things up and working to get a very clean appearance that works well with the textures used, although I am altering the exterior area to use a bricks-based theme. I'll have more progress at the end of tomorrow.

[traversd]

Nice stuff Phobus. I'll have to load the map up later as I can't place the last image - but that aint a bad thing ;o)

-t

[Phobus]

That last screen is the result of a huge cosmetic change with very little in the way of altered functionality. It's the corridor from the room with the invisible teleports (which I intend to change quite a lot) to the rocket launcher secret.

[Snarboo]

Looking good, Phobus! Keep us updated. :)

It's hard to believe that after nearly two years in development this project is almost finished. I want to preemptively thank all of you for your support. This project would have never gotten off the ground without you guys. Hopefully we'll have this puppy out the door before the end of June. :D

Anyway, I'm leaving on the 8th of June to visit family, so I'll probably be gone on the 8th and 9th. I'm taking all the project files with me so I'll be here in fully capacity, however.

[Phobus]

Spent a couple of days getting blind drunk and enjoying myself in the sun - caught up on sleep now I hope, so I should be good to make more progress and stuff.

[Sigvatr]

I actually laughed out loud at the terrible choice of textures in many of these maps. The whole idea of taking 1994 maps and going full sperglord on them without taking away their terribleness is a brilliant idea, and gives me an idea for another project we should start one day.

I'm yet to play any of them for real though. I mostly just warped to different levels to see what they look like.

[Snarboo]

I'm pretty well situated now after a decent flight and a few days to get myself acclimated to the weather here. I've got all my tools and ports setup, so I can handle everything related to this project.

I would like to see this project finished by the end of the month. At the very least, I'd like to see a beta release that is ready to be uploaded to /idgames. We only have one map left, so this is definitely feasible.

I'll touch base here over the next few days, so let me know what you guys think.

[Walter confetti]

ok, i think to change music and maybe fix a pair of issues in the dark fortress section... stay tuned