Scythe 2 Demos [-complevel 2]

[dew]

i've been checking the old scythe2 demos thread and found some stuff from kristian ronge that haven't been uploaded to DSDA. all of those demos were of superb quality and often surpassed my 'new records', heh.

i tried re-recording wherever i could, but his map23 in 21s or map16 in 28s... heh, no way. not by far. the former desyncs in s2v2, the latter does not. also his map12 record survived the transition, but his map13 desyncs cca 0.2s before exiting, because an archvile gets too hyperactive now. it was SIX seconds faster than me, btw.

well, this batch of demos was hard work, because you don't get ronge-beaters casually. :)

map01 UV-speed in 0:23 (ahahahaha)
map15 UV-speed/pacifist in 0:32
map15 UV-speed/pacifist secret exit in 0:18
map21 UV-speed/pacifist in 0:37

s2dew6.zip

[TimeOfDeath]

myk said:

Because if you don't, you'll have to use your eyes and ears, and possibly plan your routes better so that the likeliness of missing monsters is reduced. This planning may be a key element in levels that create situations where monsters may stray from view. How much of an effect extra stats have depends on the level. It may be minimal or critical. If you read the text files of existing demos, you'll occasionally see notes about routes planned specifically to catch monsters so that max kills are ensured. That's been part of the game for a long time.

And it still is part of the game even when you use the hud. Using the hud is not the same as using IDDT. You still have to plan your routes and use your eyes and ears.

[dew]

oh yeah... a couple of questions. kristian's map05 in 21s desyncs, so i tried to get an improvement, but even with hard effort, i could only get 21.34.

now, i got some runs i thought were even better, but they ended worse, even 22+, because the end sequence seemed impossibly slow (perhaps in my eyes only?). is the romero death always the same lenght? or the barrel explosions that kill him? what exactly triggers the end (meaning, should i avoid the blue armor to die sooner)? i tried a RL boost into the teleport, killing myself, but the romero death wasn't triggered reliably and my corpse just stood there endlessly in some cases.

[myk]

TOD, what I meant by "part of the game" is that people playing without the help of smart totals take certain measures to ensure max kills (be it a conservative route, a final patrol or more slight measures). With smart totals, those measures may become more lax. That's also part of the game, yes, but a bit differently.

You can't say smart totals aren't making a difference, as that difference is why we're discussing this topic. I'm saying "note it down because it makes a difference in easing max efficiency" while you're saying "I want to use it because it makes a difference in easing max efficiency". The "I want to use" and "note it down" aren't incompatible!

dew said:
is the romero death always the same lenght? or the barrel explosions that kill him?

The length of the events is fixed. Testing a WAD Sargebaldy made that uses a voodoo doll and barrels to create a switch that does various things, however, the behavior of the crushed barrels wasn't always consistent. Maybe, dependent on the randomizer, if the damage to the Romero head isn't the same, barrels that explode in chain reaction might end the level differently. If we consider a matter of less than a second, a slight difference in the barrel explosion sequence may make the difference. Also, if I'm not mistaken, depending on what you activate or do while running, the randomizer affects things differently, as its data is used by the actions it becomes associated to. This was phenomenon explained by Sedlo, I think, for one of those short but rather optimized demos he worked on: In a very short demo, if you managed very exact moves, you could get consistent results in the behavior of the monsters, as Doom's randomness is deterministic.

[dew]

thanks. the difference is rather small, so i wasn't sure, but i couldn't predict the timer at all and the whole sequence feels random. it sounds like sometimes, the barrels took longer to start exploding. could it be some randomness on the voodoo doll's part, or the speed of crushing the barrels?

anyways, i just got a lucky boost from the cyber, then fucked up on opening a door (haha), save&loaded and a second RL boost was enough to get 20.91, so it's possible even without sr50 hacks.

[dew]

woo, done! this is as close to perfection as i'll ever get. :)
map05 UV-speed/pacifist(?) in 0:20

well... now what. i've tried improving 07, 13 and 22 and even filling 25, but it didn't go well. seems like i'll stop spamming this thread. :)

s205p020.zip

[Gusta]

dew, spam more please :-)
your latest demos are amazing, ecspecially that s205 and s215s were damn perfect!
and s220 ... you're crazy :-D ... and not scared of whatever shortcut possibility, that's great :-)

[dew]

oh well.. as i said, i'm out of speed ideas, so i did my first max. :) nothing epic, just some luck hitting the duracell marines.

map31 UV-max in 0:41

s231-041.zip

[skepticist]

dew, if it`s just LUCK then i may say you are pretty damn lucky one :-D. It seems that you hit these bastards at ease.

s231-037.zip

[dew]

oooh, nice one... especially that shot where you kill two in one. i knew i'm stepping on SOMEONE's territory... :) i'll see if i can call and raise.

[Akse]

Scythe II Episode I UV TAS Speed Movie

Map01 - 0:18
Map02 - 0:27
Map03 - 0:40
Map04 - 0:19
Map05 - 0:20
*****
Total - 2:04

============================================================
Recorded using GLBoom-Plus 2.5.0.2 & Doom Replay Editor 2.0
Strafe50 is always ON
============================================================
May not work correctly with PRBoom, so PRBoom-plus is highly
recomended. (-complevel 2)
P.S. The best wad i've ever played

sii1-204.zip

[TimeOfDeath]

myk said:

TOD, what I meant by "part of the game" is that people playing without the help of smart totals take certain measures to ensure max kills (be it a conservative route, a final patrol or more slight measures). With smart totals, those measures may become more lax. That's also part of the game, yes, but a bit differently.

You can't say smart totals aren't making a difference, as that difference is why we're discussing this topic. I'm saying "note it down because it makes a difference in easing max efficiency" while you're saying "I want to use it because it makes a difference in easing max efficiency". The "I want to use" and "note it down" aren't incompatible!

I'm not saying they're not different, I just think you're exaggerating. I don't know what the big deal is, unless some people are complaining that people using the hud have beat their times. If it makes it so much easier, then it should be easy for them to beat their old hud-less times using the hud. Right??????? Then do it.

[Creaphis]

TimeOfDeath said:

I'm not saying they're not different, I just think you're exaggerating. I don't know what the big deal is, unless some people are complaining that people using the hud have beat their times. If it makes it so much easier, then it should be easy for them to beat their old hud-less times using the hud. Right??????? Then do it.

And when they do so they will note that they used the HUD, due to their common courtesy.

[TimeOfDeath]

How many years has the hud been available now? Almost as many as the original game? Some people weren't doomgods in the 90's and didn't grow-up competing on the original exe. When someone says they used prboom/+ to record, I'd wonder if they used the hud. I asked about people's weapon config twice in the eternal doom demos thread and nobody answered, like I was a noob for asking. Just like I'm a noob for using zdoom, or jumping, or infinite ammo, or deaths, or rocket jumping.

[myk]

There's no objective way of noting how much of an effect extra features have, so one can assume that anything not supported by Doom or Boom is best notified, just for sake of comparison with all the existing demos. Granted, some stuff like screen resolution and rendering mode has traditionally been excluded; be my guest if you want to specify them somewhere. It's not just about me or you being cheated, but even more so about archiving the demos in a good way.

TimeOfDeath said:
I asked about people's weapon config twice in the eternal doom demos thread and nobody answered, like I was a noob for asking.

I believe I replied to that.

Just like I'm a noob for using zdoom, or jumping, or infinite ammo, or deaths, or rocket jumping.

Heh, you're persecuting yourself. You aren't under attack here, man. I enjoyed watching all those demos. The relatively recent one in that coopbuildlm level full of cyberdemons was particularly cool. I don't see anything wrong with them, much less your skills. Besides, all those features are pretty evident and part of ZDoom or Zdaemon, which are the base and unambiguous engines for the demo formats used. It's not like an extra-info HUD that you can hardly tell is there and isn't available in Doom.

You're not obligated to anything, though.

In fact, anything you note down is a kindness on your part, as it's not hard to hack up a cheated demo if you really wanted.

[Akse]

Scythe II Episode III UV TAS Speed Movie

Map11 - 0:11
Map12 - 0:29
Map13 - 0:30
Map14 - 0:20
Map15 - 0:17
*****
Total - 1:47

============================================================
Recorded using GLBoom-Plus 2.5.0.2 & Doom Replay Editor 2.0
Strafe50 is always ON
============================================================
prboom.exe -iwad doom2.wad -file scythe2.wad
-playdemo sii3-147.lmp (-complevel 2)
prboom-plus.exe -iwad doom2.wad -file scythe2.wad
-playdemo sii3-147.lmp

sii3-147.zip

[Erik]

Really cool movies there Akse.

[Akse]

Erik said:

Really cool movies there Akse.

Thanks :0)

[Gusta]

I did map29 UV Speed in 0:40 :-D

[dew]

thanks for telling us! any plans on releasing it to the world? :)

akse> awesome stuff! just a technicality... isn't map31 part of the third episode when you use secret exit?

[Akse]

Scythe II Episode IV UV TAS Speed Movie

Map16 - 0:26
Map17 - 0:34
Map18 - 0:25
Map19 - 0:21
Map20 - 0:40
*****
Total - 2:26

============================================================
Recorded using GLBoom-Plus 2.5.0.2 & Doom Replay Editor 2.0
Strafe50 is always ON
============================================================
prboom.exe -iwad doom2.wad -file scythe2.wad
-playdemo sii4-226.lmp (-complevel 2)
prboom-plus.exe -iwad doom2.wad -file scythe2.wad
-playdemo sii4-226.lmp


dew> Episode III with maps 31 and 32 will appear soon.
BTW Thanks for your demos with cool shortcuts :0)

sii4-226.zip

[Gusta]

dew said:

thanks for telling us! any plans on releasing it to the world? :)

I am ashamed of it :-)

s229-040.zip

[entryway]

Akse said:

Scythe II Episode IV UV TAS Speed Movie

Map16 - 0:26
Map17 - 0:34
Map18 - 0:25
Map19 - 0:21
Map20 - 0:40
*****
Total - 2:26

Akse is indefatigable. Too many high quality smooth TAS demos for last month.

btw, Map20 - 0:40 with three vile-jumps in a row is very cool.

[Akse]

Scythe II Episode III UV TAS Speed Movie
Full:)

Map11 - 0:11
Map12 - 0:29
Map13 - 0:30
Map14 - 0:20
Map15 - 0:17
Map31 - 0:03
*****
Total - 1:50

============================================================
Recorded using GLBoom-Plus 2.5.0.2 & Doom Replay Editor 2.0
Strafe50 is always ON
============================================================
prboom.exe -iwad doom2.wad -file scythe2.wad
-playdemo sii3-150.lmp (-complevel 2)
prboom-plus.exe -iwad doom2.wad -file scythe2.wad
-playdemo sii3-150.lmp

Same run, but with Map 31 now.

sii3-150.zip

[gggmork]

28 in 5:19. More of a normal route instead of doing that annoying, multiple attempt requiring linedef skipping trick I did last time (this route wound up being faster anyway, for this run at least).

s228-519-ggg.zip

[gggmork]

Not as fast as 8:22, but might as well post this since my last demo didn't count due to dying at the end (same basic thing except I use invulns to kill viles instead of afrits- disappointingly slow but 47 sec. faster than my previous failed run at least)

s2301052.zip

[gggmork]

Well, that's a lot closer to okuplok's 8:22 at least; still 30 sec slower. I don't likely want to try anymore due to luck based stuff (beginning vile jump, occasional imps falling off side, running past viles without dying). I didn't use hud stats to check for 100% max though (pretty much never do because you lose information of how much ammo per gun, plus hard to get used to for me).

s230-852.zip

[Akse]

Scythe II Episode VI UV TAS Speed Movie

Map26 - 0:09
Map27 - 1:06
Map28 - 0:16
Map29 - 0:10
Map30 - 0:26
*****
Total - 2:07

============================================================
Recorded using GLBoom-Plus 2.5.0.4 & Doom Replay Editor 2.0
Strafe50 is always ON
============================================================
prboom.exe -iwad doom2.wad -file scythe2.wad
-playdemo sii6-207.lmp (-complevel 2)
prboom-plus.exe -iwad doom2.wad -file scythe2.wad
-playdemo sii6-207.lmp

Scythe II again >:0)

sii6-207.zip

[TimeOfDeath]

myk said:

Heh, you're persecuting yourself. You aren't under attack here, man.

I don't think I'm a noob (I like to think I'm just one of many skilled players/mappers, but maybe others disagree), I was making fun of how some players seem to feel about certain wads that use certain features and/or options (like jumping, inf ammo, deaths, rjumping, lots of ammo/powerups/monster placement, non-traditional gameplay/layouts/detail or no detail) - wads that "apparently" have less depth than "real" wads and/or require no brain or skill to play. Ever since I joined ZDaemon in 2004, I noticed some players have been bashing these wads (even skilled players) and I don't understand why. Instead of acknowledging the different type of skills you can use in these wads, it seems like they would rather just ignore and bash them. IT MAKES ME SAD. I'm not saying I think these wads are better than others, I'm just trying to stick up for them because I actually enjoy playing and recording on them and I'm beyond sick of the misconception that these wads are for noobs.

It seems some people don't even take demos seriously if there are deaths in them (on coop wads intended to be played in coop mode w/deaths). There is strategy involved - maybe the haters would realize that if they actually tried recording. The map19 coopbuild demo was pretty boring to make, honestly. imo, my best coopbuild demos are map08 no deaths & w/deaths, map22 reality/max, map05 reality/max.

Also, I don't know why more hardcore demo recorders don't like jumping and rocket jumping. You can do so many tricks with it that test your skill. You're in control, unlike archvile jumping where you have to wait for the archvile to waltz over and shoot you up when he's good and ready. Plus with jumping, you can jump on monsters instead of having to rely on them leaving enough room for you to run by (sure, you can stay at one side to lure them that way and then run around, but their movement can still be random and it doesn't always work).

Anyway, sorry for spamming this thread with off-topic whining.

map02 max w/50% secrets 1:58
map02 max 2:06
map02 reality/max 3:10

[dew]

tod>
if you provide more demos like these, please whine as much as you want, just zip 'em with the text file so i don't have to do it manually. :)

akse>
awesome stuff! i'm always grinding my teeth a bit when watching your demos, cause they beat my times so much... except map05, yay! :) and the switch-from-above on map19 made me wail, i was exploring it and thought it's impossible. speaking of ep4, any reason why you skipped the switch-from-below on map18 (method's 0:33 from s2v1)?
looking forward to ep5! have fun with map25, mwahahaha! :)