2D Doom

[dr_st]

ok, ok, it's a *fair* effort, but I shall wait for something that is truly happy running in a window on a 32-bit machine with drop-down options menus, using just 3% system resourses in the background.

You're completely spoiled by the evilness of Windows. Do you complain about the DOOM menu system too?

Don't be a dumbass, it's just time to put DOS and all it's associated 16/32 problems to sleep, ok? I can't stand people who get all anti-32 saying, oh dos was so much easier, windows is gaaaaaaaaayyyyy, how retarded. IT WILL NEVER GET BETTER UNLESS PEOPLE TRY. Move on, already, for chrissake.

What the fuck are you talking about?

We all use Windows, and we all acknowledge its ups and downs, but "putting DOS to sleep"? You realize that it means throwing away many cool games and some valuable programs that were made in the past, and need the DOS environment. Many people (and I'm included) won't go with that, and even Microsoft understands it, because even in the newest OS, WinXP, which is completely non-DOS-based, they left the ability to emulate DOS, and run at least some of the DOS based programs.

I'm not at all anti-Windows, although I admit there was a time when I was really negative about it. It sounds more like you are anti-DOS. I would never discard a game just because it won't run in DOS, but you've just dissed DOOM2D in part because it's a DOS program (which by the way runs pretty darn fine under Windows).

Just like the majority of the new games (and all of the serious games) will be coming out for Windows, most of the old ones will remain DOS proggies. How many games like DOOM you know on which many people are willing to spend time and effort, to update and upgrade them a decade after the original came out? So I should stop playing Mortal Kombat, Crusader No Remorse?

I don't know how old are you or how long have you been into computers, but me and many other people who have lived for a while in the "DOS era" remember that DOS has advantages too, and in certain aspects it is more user-friendly than Windows. And our most important grudge against Windows is the fact that it raised a generation of primitive users (I'm not necessarily talking about you) that don't know anything further than double-click or point-and-drag. You realize how often I get bugged by friends who can't install sound card drivers or even create a shortcut on the desktop?

This was my non-DOOM-related rant.

[pritch]

Bah. I am nearly 19, plenty old enough to remember the days of 3.11 and even earlier.

Look, DOS was fine in its day, but support for old DOS utils and games is all that should be left now. As for Doom2d, which I was talking about, it could be so much more if it was updated to fit in with the later OS's. I don't want command line any more, that's all. It represents stagnation to me, I want to move on, embrace System32. Which is why I can't wait to get a new machine with XP on it...

*drools*

[dr_st]

Bah. I am nearly 19, plenty old enough to remember the days of 3.11 and even earlier.

Look, DOS was fine in its day, but support for old DOS utils and games is all that should be left now. As for Doom2d, which I was talking about, it could be so much more if it was updated to fit in with the later OS's. I don't want command line any more, that's all. It represents stagnation to me, I want to move on, embrace System32. Which is why I can't wait to get a new machine with XP on it...

*drools*

Well, to me "moving on" does not mean leaving the past behind me, if it was good past.

The possibilities really expand if you know how to combine the best of both worlds.

And as for DOOM2D: I don't think a better 2D conversion of DOOM is possible, and I don't think it would be better if it was written using Win32 code in the firstplace. I don't think it needs 3D graphics, surround sound or internet-based multiplayer. Keeping in mind that the game was written as a joke project, I'd say it turned out pretty darn well.

[Yetiman]

If it is for Doom, I like more to play the dos version of it. I also remember the good old days in the Dos invironment! I mosty played games those times like Doom, Doom2, Kings Quest, Duke3D, Shadow Warrior, Rise Of the Triad even Carmageddon (mostly 3D shooters). Dos was/is a stable platform to run applications. The only thing is that Dos can only run 1 app at a time, but for games is not necessary to run more app's at the same time =).

[dr_st]

Dos was/is a stable platform to run applications. The only thing is that Dos can only run 1 app at a time, but for games is not necessary to run more app's at the same time =).

Yes, this is what I was always thinking as well, however there are certain other issues with DOS, certain difficulties that must be solved if you want to achieve the stable system (memory and startup files management for example), and these can be serious setbacks to the average users, so I can understand why people try to avoid DOS. If you started with Windows in the firstplace, and then, when you wanted to play a DOS game, you found out that there are stuff like XMS, EMS, CD-ROM drivers etc, and that you must configure 'em properly for the game to work, that can be pretty darn frustrating...

Plus, programming for DOS is supposedly harder, and that's why many prefer avoiding it. Randy Heit, for example, with whom I sorta talked about ZDOOM and DOS, ages ago.

Not to mention playing over the internet, which can't be done from DOS.

So with time I've learn to appreciate certain things in Windows and managed to become friends with this OS, especially since Win98 has such a nice DOS underneath it.

But there is quite a difference between embracing the future and throwing away the past. That's basically what our convo with pritch was about.

[Yetiman]

I use the Win98 OS system, because you can work better this way with Dos (Pressing the F8 key at startup, with this you can go quickly to dos). I also always install mouse-, cd- en soundcard drivers for dos so that I can play any game at any time. Dos games are (even now) sometimes better then windows games, altough that the user interface is mostly better in windows (you always have your mouse, and that is sometimes missing in dos-based-games). One of my favorite games for dos are Doom and Doom2, for windows Quake3:arena and dungeon keeper 2.

[dr_st]

I use the Win98 OS system, because you can work better this way with Dos (Pressing the F8 key at startup, with this you can go quickly to dos).

I just set BootGUI=0 and it doesn't load Windows at startup, then I load it by typing WIN, just like with 3.11.